GOP is against higher education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tuition at private colleges is insane and completely unreasonable. DC looked at Bard college, which has a $62 million arts center designed by Frank Ghery. Their tuition is close to $70k per year.

Maybe an arts facility designed by an unknown architect would have sufficed for Bard, a mid-level SLAC? They could charge less for tuition without such outrageous and unnecessary building costs.

My kid got zero FA from Bard. My kid is at a state school.

Bard is an arts school...it would make sense to have a top tier arts facility to match its program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those concerned about costs, if it's such a concern why don't you want more funding for education then, or demand that government regulate college costs? I'm concerned about costs, too, and would love for the government to regulate it, both in higher ed and in healthcare. I'd love to see Rs and Ds come together on that. But, would Rs push for it? I'm thinking not. They'd rather just complain about the "liberal elite", which is laughable considering how the GOP elite send their kids to "liberal elite" colleges. Where did Kushner go again to college, or the Trumps? Where will the Kushners and Trumps send their children to college? Not Liberty U I'm guessing.

Problems of cost isn't always solved by making more money available. Clearly, the other side of addressing this issue is to make tuition more affordable. In terms of regulation, I'd say that there needs to be *less* regulation in the form of government backed student loans. The current tuition crisis is largely due to the easy availability of student loans, allowing colleges/universities to jack up tuition. As a result, colleges are flush with cash, and many spend it frivolously, building fancy stadiums, gyms, student life centers, turning campuses into luxury resorts, like this gym at University of Minnesota, a project which just the latest expansion alone cost 60 million dollars:

https://www.cannondesign.com/our-work/work/university-of-minnesota-student-recreation-and-wellness-center/

That's right, that entire building, is a gym. Not all colleges/universities do this, nor do they all do it to the same degree. Colleges and universities should be left to compete for student tuition dollars based on the actual value that they are able to return to the student in the form of a income producing future. This removal of government regulatory intervention from colleges and universities should be put in place with a program that provides free tuition for all community colleges. Kids who want to study some non-money-rewarding major can do so in such a low cost environment. The result is that those who want a college education can get one, and those who want a higher quality education need to do so while ensuring that they are choosing a field that's in demand, so as to justify whatever financial commitment they make.

1. Trump reduced the regulation to allow more unaccredited universities to cheat students and jack up loans, like his defunct Trump U
2. How do you make tuition more affordable? You regulate it. If you let "market" forces drive costs, you get crazy prices. This is what we are seeing in the healthcare industry as well. That's why the government regulates utility costs.
3. This is a global economy, and American students are competing with foreign students, many of whom attend colleges for free or for much cheaper than the US. You are determined to make Americans a population of uneducated, blue collar workers.
4. I don't like how the US is so sports focused, both in colleges and in general. I think it's sad that athletes make more than teachers. However, I'm betting that many Rs love watching sports, including college sports. And I bet many even hope for athletic scholarships to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that some of the progressive things in universities are too lefty (like not having gender identification), but by and large, universities are still about independent thought process and pursuing higher critical thinking skills.

It is this kind of thinking that will and does help push for more individual liberties, things like being more accepting of transgender people, etc.. Higher ed isn't just about getting a job, though I certainly hope my children pursue a degree that is marketable. There is value in developing the whole person. Otherwise why bother reading Shakespeare or Whitman or other great literary classics. Generally, people who are not exposed to higher ed won't bother with reading classics or philosophy, which IMO, does lead to enlightened thinking, which yes, leads to more liberal leaning ideas.

Independent thought is mostly cultivated through higher ed and reading philosophy and about world religions. It certainly isn't cultivated in very conservative circles like churches, and I say this as someone who grew up in the church.

It's ironic to me that you talk about "safe space" in universities because we have a POTUS and his cult followers who don't like free speech when it comes to criticizing Trump or Rs.

Well I would say by and large colleges and universities are far more manifest in progressive tendencies than they were say 20-30 years ago. Consequently the ideals of independent thought and pursuing higher critical thinking skills has suffered as a result. Why else would so many students be graduating with huge student debt and useless majors?

There is also a very clear difference between "accepting of transgender people", than forcing people to accept transgender people. We can encourage it, as we should, but colleges/universities are shirking their responsibility by ruling that it is so. In doing so, they take away individual student's responsibility in learning, discussing, understanding, and coming to their own conclusions.

I would agree that there isn't a lot of freethinking going on in churches, but the way that modern progressive college/universities preach their idealism is bordering on a religious experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that some of the progressive things in universities are too lefty (like not having gender identification), but by and large, universities are still about independent thought process and pursuing higher critical thinking skills.

It is this kind of thinking that will and does help push for more individual liberties, things like being more accepting of transgender people, etc.. Higher ed isn't just about getting a job, though I certainly hope my children pursue a degree that is marketable. There is value in developing the whole person. Otherwise why bother reading Shakespeare or Whitman or other great literary classics. Generally, people who are not exposed to higher ed won't bother with reading classics or philosophy, which IMO, does lead to enlightened thinking, which yes, leads to more liberal leaning ideas.

Independent thought is mostly cultivated through higher ed and reading philosophy and about world religions. It certainly isn't cultivated in very conservative circles like churches, and I say this as someone who grew up in the church.

It's ironic to me that you talk about "safe space" in universities because we have a POTUS and his cult followers who don't like free speech when it comes to criticizing Trump or Rs.

Well I would say by and large colleges and universities are far more manifest in progressive tendencies than they were say 20-30 years ago. Consequently the ideals of independent thought and pursuing higher critical thinking skills has suffered as a result. Why else would so many students be graduating with huge student debt and useless majors?

There is also a very clear difference between "accepting of transgender people", than forcing people to accept transgender people. We can encourage it, as we should, but colleges/universities are shirking their responsibility by ruling that it is so. In doing so, they take away individual student's responsibility in learning, discussing, understanding, and coming to their own conclusions.

I would agree that there isn't a lot of freethinking going on in churches, but the way that modern progressive college/universities preach their idealism is bordering on a religious experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1. Trump reduced the regulation to allow more unaccredited universities to cheat students and jack up loans, like his defunct Trump U
2. How do you make tuition more affordable? You regulate it. If you let "market" forces drive costs, you get crazy prices. This is what we are seeing in the healthcare industry as well. That's why the government regulates utility costs.
3. This is a global economy, and American students are competing with foreign students, many of whom attend colleges for free or for much cheaper than the US. You are determined to make Americans a population of uneducated, blue collar workers.
4. I don't like how the US is so sports focused, both in colleges and in general. I think it's sad that athletes make more than teachers. However, I'm betting that many Rs love watching sports, including college sports. And I bet many even hope for athletic scholarships to college.

PP here,

#1 - I am clearly against this

#2 - I am perplexed by your points. We didn't have crazy tuition prices back when student loans were mostly private - banks only issued loans if you took them out to get a major that was likely to give you a good job. The inrush of government backed student loans since the late 90s and the ballooning of tuition is well correlated in terms of cause and effect. When you subsidize a scarce resource, you increase the price of whatever is being subsidized, this is a simple fact of economics. Utilities are very different from education and healthcare, primarily because utilities are natural monopolies, while education and healthcare are not.

#3 - Did you even read what you were replying to? I suggested that we should fund community colleges such that they offer free tuition for everyone, so that anyone who wants a college education can get one with no tuition cost.

#4 - While I think the overall level of spending by colleges/universities on sports stadiums, practice fields, and etc are quite wasteful, I believe sports and athletics is a huge strength that the American schools system has against other countries that discount sports/athletics. Our young people do best when they develop their body and mind together, and sports also teaches individuals good characteristics such as discipline and team work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree that some of the progressive things in universities are too lefty (like not having gender identification), but by and large, universities are still about independent thought process and pursuing higher critical thinking skills.

It is this kind of thinking that will and does help push for more individual liberties, things like being more accepting of transgender people, etc.. Higher ed isn't just about getting a job, though I certainly hope my children pursue a degree that is marketable. There is value in developing the whole person. Otherwise why bother reading Shakespeare or Whitman or other great literary classics. Generally, people who are not exposed to higher ed won't bother with reading classics or philosophy, which IMO, does lead to enlightened thinking, which yes, leads to more liberal leaning ideas.

Independent thought is mostly cultivated through higher ed and reading philosophy and about world religions. It certainly isn't cultivated in very conservative circles like churches, and I say this as someone who grew up in the church.

It's ironic to me that you talk about "safe space" in universities because we have a POTUS and his cult followers who don't like free speech when it comes to criticizing Trump or Rs.

Well I would say by and large colleges and universities are far more manifest in progressive tendencies than they were say 20-30 years ago. Consequently the ideals of independent thought and pursuing higher critical thinking skills has suffered as a result. Why else would so many students be graduating with huge student debt and useless majors?

There is also a very clear difference between "accepting of transgender people", than forcing people to accept transgender people. We can encourage it, as we should, but colleges/universities are shirking their responsibility by ruling that it is so. In doing so, they take away individual student's responsibility in learning, discussing, understanding, and coming to their own conclusions.

I would agree that there isn't a lot of freethinking going on in churches, but the way that modern progressive college/universities preach their idealism is bordering on a religious experience.

I would say by and large colleges and universities are far more manifest in progressive tendencies than they were say 20-30 years ago.

That is because the US has become more liberal and progressive compared to 30 years ago. So yes, compared to 30 years ago, colleges will appear even more progressive. I went to college in the early 90's.

clear difference between "accepting of transgender people", than forcing people to accept transgender people. We can encourage it, as we should, but colleges/universities are shirking their responsibility by ruling that it is so.

It's a college. They don't enforce it on the rest of the country. I think it's a bit over the top, but colleges are where young people experiment with their identity, come into their own, and they are certainly encouraged to question the "as is" dictates that society imposes. I'm not a huge fan of this push by colleges, but I realize that colleges are where a lot of progressive ideals come from. Where else can young people question their identity and find themselves freely, and without scorn? Do the extreme right have a right to express their ideas in colleges? Of course they do, but colleges don't necessarily have to give them the right to preach their hate speech which a lot of the extreme right do.

I would agree that there isn't a lot of freethinking going on in churches, but the way that modern progressive college/universities preach their idealism is bordering on a religious experience.

I would agree that far left is as much of a cult as the far right, however, they certainly don't question the legitimacy of science, so I prefer my kids be more exposed to the far left progressive ideas in colleges than the backwards thinking, anti-education views of the far right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The pp who posted that a CS degree guarantees a lucrative job while a religious studies major will be unemployed is dead wrong.

A degree in gender studies from HYP with great grades, projects, internships etc. will virtually guarantee a lucrative career. Whereas a CS degree from a no-name college and middling grades will probably get you some sort of job but a career that goes nowhere.

The major means little. It’s the intelligence, initiative, diligence and ingenuity of the student that determine how successful a person will be in his or her career.

The second paragraph is in contradiction with the third.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those concerned about costs, if it's such a concern why don't you want more funding for education then, or demand that government regulate college costs? I'm concerned about costs, too, and would love for the government to regulate it, both in higher ed and in healthcare. I'd love to see Rs and Ds come together on that. But, would Rs push for it? I'm thinking not. They'd rather just complain about the "liberal elite", which is laughable considering how the GOP elite send their kids to "liberal elite" colleges. Where did Kushner go again to college, or the Trumps? Where will the Kushners and Trumps send their children to college? Not Liberty U I'm guessing.

The government caused the costs to skyrocket, with the loans to everyone for everything. I'm not convinced I want the government attempting to provide a solution to a problem it created. Good intentions, and all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those concerned about costs, if it's such a concern why don't you want more funding for education then, or demand that government regulate college costs? I'm concerned about costs, too, and would love for the government to regulate it, both in higher ed and in healthcare. I'd love to see Rs and Ds come together on that. But, would Rs push for it? I'm thinking not. They'd rather just complain about the "liberal elite", which is laughable considering how the GOP elite send their kids to "liberal elite" colleges. Where did Kushner go again to college, or the Trumps? Where will the Kushners and Trumps send their children to college? Not Liberty U I'm guessing.

The government caused the costs to skyrocket, with the loans to everyone for everything. I'm not convinced I want the government attempting to provide a solution to a problem it created. Good intentions, and all that.

? The government caused the lending issue? Did the government cause the lending issues in the housing bubble, or did that happen because "market forces" and unscrupulous lenders took advantaged of an unregulated industry?

I bet you are glad government regulates your utility costs, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In July, a Pew Research Center study found that 58 percent of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents believe colleges and universities have a negative effect “on the way things are going in the country"

The GOP is really frightening. They are beginning to lose faith in higher education. This is terrible! The economy is becoming higher tech and higher skilled. This will just further perpetuate a blue state/red state or city/rural divide.

I think there's more to the story. Unfortunately Pew research article on this didn't ask why the respondents felt this way. Count me as one of the many republicans who has grown weary of colleges and universities in the US - and I say this as someone who has multiple undergrad degrees and an advanced degree. My beef is not with the concept of colleges and universities, but how US colleges and universities are CURRENTLY behaving. First is the hard lean towards progressive activism, creating thought bubbles that are antithetical to the idea of free exchange and learning. Second is the schools' focus not on core academic performance, but the construction of fancy facilities, resulting in escalating tuition that in turn saddle students with crushing debt. Thirdly, colleges and universities are not doing enough to guide students into productive fields like engineering, but are instead all to happy to indulge in the whims of immature children who study meaningless majors that have no hope for good employment upon graduation.

If you dig a little bit into the PEW research, Republicans and Democrats are largely aligned on most of the sub measures except one: Republicans indicate that colleges and universities should mostly be about getting educated and less so about personal growth. Meanwhile Democrats are split half and half on getting educated versus personal growth. The lack of any other correlation prompts me to hypothesize that Republicans are indeed largely weary of colleges and universities because they are not doing a good job of preparing kids in terms of personal growth.

You lost me at “meaningless majors.”

I presume that is a dig at humanities majors, rather than at mechanical training that will be out of date by the time the student finishes his degree.

Knowing how to write and analyze will never be out of date. And many leaders in the tech fields state clearly that the best innovators are those coming in with humanities degrees.

Turning us all into robots doesn’t bode well for our future as a nation or as humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those concerned about costs, if it's such a concern why don't you want more funding for education then, or demand that government regulate college costs? I'm concerned about costs, too, and would love for the government to regulate it, both in higher ed and in healthcare. I'd love to see Rs and Ds come together on that. But, would Rs push for it? I'm thinking not. They'd rather just complain about the "liberal elite", which is laughable considering how the GOP elite send their kids to "liberal elite" colleges. Where did Kushner go again to college, or the Trumps? Where will the Kushners and Trumps send their children to college? Not Liberty U I'm guessing.

The government caused the costs to skyrocket, with the loans to everyone for everything. I'm not convinced I want the government attempting to provide a solution to a problem it created. Good intentions, and all that.

? The government caused the lending issue? Did the government cause the lending issues in the housing bubble, or did that happen because "market forces" and unscrupulous lenders took advantaged of an unregulated industry?

I bet you are glad government regulates your utility costs, though.

Why not do some research into college loans and how they're different from other loans.

Yes, the government has contributed greatly to the skyrocketing costs of college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She’s young enough that the baby boomer professors will retire or die off, which will create tenure track positions.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In July, a Pew Research Center study found that 58 percent of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents believe colleges and universities have a negative effect “on the way things are going in the country"

The GOP is really frightening. They are beginning to lose faith in higher education. This is terrible! The economy is becoming higher tech and higher skilled. This will just further perpetuate a blue state/red state or city/rural divide.

I think there's more to the story. Unfortunately Pew research article on this didn't ask why the respondents felt this way. Count me as one of the many republicans who has grown weary of colleges and universities in the US - and I say this as someone who has multiple undergrad degrees and an advanced degree. My beef is not with the concept of colleges and universities, but how US colleges and universities are CURRENTLY behaving. First is the hard lean towards progressive activism, creating thought bubbles that are antithetical to the idea of free exchange and learning. Second is the schools' focus not on core academic performance, but the construction of fancy facilities, resulting in escalating tuition that in turn saddle students with crushing debt. Thirdly, colleges and universities are not doing enough to guide students into productive fields like engineering, but are instead all to happy to indulge in the whims of immature children who study meaningless majors that have no hope for good employment upon graduation.

If you dig a little bit into the PEW research, Republicans and Democrats are largely aligned on most of the sub measures except one: Republicans indicate that colleges and universities should mostly be about getting educated and less so about personal growth. Meanwhile Democrats are split half and half on getting educated versus personal growth. The lack of any other correlation prompts me to hypothesize that Republicans are indeed largely weary of colleges and universities because they are not doing a good job of preparing kids in terms of personal growth.

So well-said

[Anonymous]

If you are so against government backing student loans, then I hope you are eve more outraged that Trump wants to fund for-profit colleges that scam people, like Trump U.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/399166-devos-to-repeal-obama-era-rule-penalizing-for-profit-colleges-that

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is planning to rollback an Obama-era crackdown on for-profit colleges that leave students in debt and with poor job opportunities, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.

Trump administration officials have said Obama's "gainful employment" provision, which never fully went into effect, unfairly targets for-profit colleges.

Schools that offered career-training programs would have been required to publish data about their graduates under the rule, and federal aid could have been cut off to schools that had high student debt post-graduation, potentially shutting down thousands of programs...The Trump Education Department has largely dismantled the team that was responsible for investigating abuses by for-profit colleges.

Gosh, I wonder if this had anything to do with the lawsuit against of Trump U and the subsequent closing of his scam university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those concerned about costs, if it's such a concern why don't you want more funding for education then, or demand that government regulate college costs? I'm concerned about costs, too, and would love for the government to regulate it, both in higher ed and in healthcare. I'd love to see Rs and Ds come together on that. But, would Rs push for it? I'm thinking not. They'd rather just complain about the "liberal elite", which is laughable considering how the GOP elite send their kids to "liberal elite" colleges. Where did Kushner go again to college, or the Trumps? Where will the Kushners and Trumps send their children to college? Not Liberty U I'm guessing.

The government caused the costs to skyrocket, with the loans to everyone for everything. I'm not convinced I want the government attempting to provide a solution to a problem it created. Good intentions, and all that.

? The government caused the lending issue? Did the government cause the lending issues in the housing bubble, or did that happen because "market forces" and unscrupulous lenders took advantaged of an unregulated industry?

I bet you are glad government regulates your utility costs, though.

Why not do some research into college loans and how they're different from other loans.

Yes, the government has contributed greatly to the skyrocketing costs of college.

And Trump thinks it's fine:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/399166-devos-to-repeal-obama-era-rule-penalizing-for-profit-colleges-that