4th Grade CES Admission Criteria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an official write-up:

What data was used to evaluate my child?

1) Grade 3 report card,
2) local assessments MAP-R and MAP-M
3) reading level
4) access to math enrichment,
5) instructional need, a non-scored student questionnaire,
6) an outside assessment: Cognitive Test of Abilities Test (CogAT): Screener,
7) current student services such as receiving special education services, ESOL-English for Speakers of Other Languages, 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced Meals
.

https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

At our school, we were told that reading levels are no longer specifically assessed. Kids read "at", below or ahead. They don't do further assessment than this. Can a teacher chime in to let us know if this is true. I don't really care about CES, but just curious if teachers are still assessing students quarterly like they had in the past. Additionally, I don't see any type of "math enrichment" given. DS scored extremely high on MAP-M and he does the exact same thing others kids do. FWIW, I don't have an issue with this, but the criteria provided above seems outdated.

4 is definitely an odd thing to take in to account since it is school dependent, but it's possible your child did not make the cut. At our school they took only kids with 99th+ percentile scores for enrichment. A lot of parents who presumably have kids with 90+ percentile scores assume there isn't enrichment since I have heard them grumble about it but there is.

I'm the PP you had responded to. My DS has always been 99%, usually 2-3 grades up. I know the MAP-P doesn't count for much because it's K-2nd, but he also took the MAP-M in 3rd and scored somewhere 99% for 6th graders. And he definitely does not get any enrichment.

No, he scored in the 99th percentile for 3rd graders, he was compared nationally to other 3rd graders who took the test.
6th graders don't even take the same test.

I think when people say this, they are referring to the RIT score. When a third grader scores 260+ on MAP-M, it's pretty damn good however you spin it.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing: They say they want the "outlier" kids who supposedly don't have a cohort at their home school. In practice, that means that they pick 1-2 kids per school. There's no school with no one from the CES chosen. There's also no school with 8-10 kids chosen. To be picked, your child must have the best or second best test scores at their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: They say they want the "outlier" kids who supposedly don't have a cohort at their home school. In practice, that means that they pick 1-2 kids per school. There's no school with no one from the CES chosen. There's also no school with 8-10 kids chosen. To be picked, your child must have the best or second best test scores at their school.

I think it’s more like 4-5 per school. They picked 5 from our school and 2 declined. I know there are at least 3-4 attending from the next school over, Just based on who is on the bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my individual anecdotal experience, an IEP helps. A friend of mine whose child had test scores a few percentage points lower than my DC got in, while DC did not (96th% vs. 99th%).

From my individual anecdotal experience, an IEP does not help. The only child I know with an IEP who got in has 99th percentile MAPs and 99th percentile Cogats. I don't know about grades.
The children without IEPs who got in have scores ranging from 96th percentile-99th percentile for MAP and 90th percentile to 99th for Cogat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: They say they want the "outlier" kids who supposedly don't have a cohort at their home school. In practice, that means that they pick 1-2 kids per school. There's no school with no one from the CES chosen. There's also no school with 8-10 kids chosen. To be picked, your child must have the best or second best test scores at their school.

I think it’s more like 4-5 per school. They picked 5 from our school and 2 declined. I know there are at least 3-4 attending from the next school over, Just based on who is on the bus.

That sounds about right for the average, but I know one school has 8-10 kids attending and another one has only two who got in and two attending so your information is not correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

There are always things on on anonymous forums that are untrue but I have found a lot of talk on this forum to be shockingly accurate IRL. I think some parents are good at finding things out from their school or have friends who are teachers or are teachers or administrators themselves post on here but don't want to out themselves.

Maybe, but not on this topic. It's mostly parents stating, authoritatively, why their DC [unfairly] didn't get into the "gifted" program when they clearly are "gifted." I understand why the county isn't being transparent, and I understand why that is so frustrating to so many here, but without the data about who were selected and who were not, we're just making ill-informed generalizations. Yes, some posters report their DCs' scores, but maybe it's the same 10 posters, and maybe what they are reporting isn't accurate. You have no way of telling. I see sweeping generalizations being made based on anonymous posts and what they have found out from friends, which may be better than no information, but not necessarily.

You may be one of those posters whose child did not get in, but I can tell that some of the other people have kids who did get in and probably got information from their schools because this is the same information I'm hearing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: They say they want the "outlier" kids who supposedly don't have a cohort at their home school. In practice, that means that they pick 1-2 kids per school. There's no school with no one from the CES chosen. There's also no school with 8-10 kids chosen. To be picked, your child must have the best or second best test scores at their school.

I think it’s more like 4-5 per school. They picked 5 from our school and 2 declined. I know there are at least 3-4 attending from the next school over, Just based on who is on the bus.

That sounds about right for the average, but I know one school has 8-10 kids attending and another one has only two who got in and two attending so your information is not correct.

Yeah, our school sent 8 kids to CES last year. It varies. Also, some schools have 300 kids, others have 900.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how mcps could do 3 hour tests on 8 and 9 year olds. The criteria do not seem to indicate if it's the full blown test or a shorter version.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing: They say they want the "outlier" kids who supposedly don't have a cohort at their home school. In practice, that means that they pick 1-2 kids per school. There's no school with no one from the CES chosen. There's also no school with 8-10 kids chosen. To be picked, your child must have the best or second best test scores at their school.

I think it’s more like 4-5 per school. They picked 5 from our school and 2 declined. I know there are at least 3-4 attending from the next school over, Just based on who is on the bus.

It was 3 from our school. 3 chosen, all are still attending.

[Anonymous]

Again, anecdotally, this was a weird year. I've had two go through the same CES, but this year the group initially selected has minimal overlap with the group that ultimately went.

I'd be interested to hear whether the new selection process resulted in more attrition before the start of the school year. Not that it would necessarily be a bad thing, but universal testing means scooping up some kids who may not have otherwise applied for various reasons.

[Anonymous]

Agree it was an unusual year but at our DD's CES your statement about "minimal overlap" is simply untrue. Nearly all of her classmates were at the initial Open House which indicates they were the "top" picks initially selected.

All anecdotal again but it does seem clear there was more movement on the wait list this year than in past years. There also have been more students who left in the first month or two than in previous years. But we are still talking about only a handful of students. Completely expected because of universal testing.

[Anonymous]

Any idea which grades are used to determine selection?

Do they look at grades for the 1st and 2nd marking period or does it include the 3rd or interim grades for 3rd?

Do some grades matter more than others i.e. Does a B in music matter less than one in social studies or reading?

I'm guessing there isn't a way to know this but thought I'd put this out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree it was an unusual year but at our DD's CES your statement about "minimal overlap" is simply untrue. Nearly all of her classmates were at the initial Open House which indicates they were the "top" picks initially selected.

All anecdotal again but it does seem clear there was more movement on the wait list this year than in past years. There also have been more students who left in the first month or two than in previous years. But we are still talking about only a handful of students. Completely expected because of universal testing.

I'm not the PP you are quoting here, but it is entirely possible for you both to be right given that there are multiple regional CES locations, obviously.

I wonder if I'm at the same school as the PP quoted, because it was a really weird year. Of the six kids initially pulled, only three decided to go. Then the wait list, which is supposed to be totally random, seemed to pull entirely from our home school. I don't know what the deal was, but can report that even with the weird pull, no one has left the program so far and based on totally anecdotal chatter at the bus stop, everyone seems to be doing fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any idea which grades are used to determine selection?

Do they look at grades for the 1st and 2nd marking period or does it include the 3rd or interim grades for 3rd?

Do some grades matter more than others i.e. Does a B in music matter less than one in social studies or reading?

I'm guessing there isn't a way to know this but thought I'd put this out there.

My DC who normally gets straight A's somehow got a B in one of the reading categories in Q2 of 3rd grade, but still managed to get in because of very high MAP-R and CogAT scores. Nobody knows what exactly they look at for grades or how it's weighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea which grades are used to determine selection?

Do they look at grades for the 1st and 2nd marking period or does it include the 3rd or interim grades for 3rd?

Do some grades matter more than others i.e. Does a B in music matter less than one in social studies or reading?

I'm guessing there isn't a way to know this but thought I'd put this out there.

My DC who normally gets straight A's somehow got a B in one of the reading categories in Q2 of 3rd grade, but still managed to get in because of very high MAP-R and CogAT scores. Nobody knows what exactly they look at for grades or how it's weighted.

Whereas my kid got in with straights As but a lower CogAT score than seems to be the norm (based on what is being self-reported here on DCUM). My hypothesis is that the lower CogAT score was overlooked because the overall score was brought down by the quantitative portion of the test and the CES is meant to be a language-rich program.

Basically, there is no secret recipe for guaranteed admission.