4th Grade CES Admission Criteria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe she said that to you at the time and meant it regarding the pilot programs, but it didn't actually happen for the newest classes.

So in other words, you're saying that MCPS will consider a student's special ed status (whether 504 or IEP) and use it against them in the selection process. I would imagine that if they were just neutral, then they would not have included it on the criteria list.

No, that's not a fair way to put it. It could be positive, could be negative or neutral depending on the needs.

Are you saying this out of speculation or do you have the inside track on how MCPS does it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe she said that to you at the time and meant it regarding the pilot programs, but it didn't actually happen for the newest classes.

So in other words, you're saying that MCPS will consider a student's special ed status (whether 504 or IEP) and use it against them in the selection process. I would imagine that if they were just neutral, then they would not have included it on the criteria list.

No, that's not a fair way to put it. It could be positive, could be negative or neutral depending on the needs.

Are you saying this out of speculation or do you have the inside track on how MCPS does it?

I would think it is positive since the child managed to succeed in spite of this challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an official write-up:

What data was used to evaluate my child?

1) Grade 3 report card,
2) local assessments MAP-R and MAP-M
3) reading level
4) access to math enrichment,
5) instructional need, a non-scored student questionnaire,
6) an outside assessment: Cognitive Test of Abilities Test (CogAT): Screener,
7) current student services such as receiving special education services, ESOL-English for Speakers of Other Languages, 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced Meals
.

https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

At our school, we were told that reading levels are no longer specifically assessed. Kids read "at", below or ahead. They don't do further assessment than this. Can a teacher chime in to let us know if this is true. I don't really care about CES, but just curious if teachers are still assessing students quarterly like they had in the past. Additionally, I don't see any type of "math enrichment" given. DS scored extremely high on MAP-M and he does the exact same thing others kids do. FWIW, I don't have an issue with this, but the criteria provided above seems outdated.

Would also love to know more about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an official write-up:

What data was used to evaluate my child?

1) Grade 3 report card,
2) local assessments MAP-R and MAP-M
3) reading level
4) access to math enrichment,
5) instructional need, a non-scored student questionnaire,
6) an outside assessment: Cognitive Test of Abilities Test (CogAT): Screener,
7) current student services such as receiving special education services, ESOL-English for Speakers of Other Languages, 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced Meals
.

https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

At our school, we were told that reading levels are no longer specifically assessed. Kids read "at", below or ahead. They don't do further assessment than this. Can a teacher chime in to let us know if this is true. I don't really care about CES, but just curious if teachers are still assessing students quarterly like they had in the past. Additionally, I don't see any type of "math enrichment" given. DS scored extremely high on MAP-M and he does the exact same thing others kids do. FWIW, I don't have an issue with this, but the criteria provided above seems outdated.

4 is definitely an odd thing to take in to account since it is school dependent, but it's possible your child did not make the cut. At our school they took only kids with 99th+ percentile scores for enrichment. A lot of parents who presumably have kids with 90+ percentile scores assume there isn't enrichment since I have heard them grumble about it but there is.

I'm the PP you had responded to. My DS has always been 99%, usually 2-3 grades up. I know the MAP-P doesn't count for much because it's K-2nd, but he also took the MAP-M in 3rd and scored somewhere 99% for 6th graders. And he definitely does not get any enrichment.

My DS had the similar scores back in K-3rd. He didn't receive any math enrichment at all during the Gr3, and all he got was 2-3 hours of chromebook self-teaching time everyday using some online app during the math classes for the entire year. BTW we were in a "W-cluster" high-performing ES, and no 3rd grader received any math enrichment as far as I know. Luckily he got into CES, and he is revived now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe she said that to you at the time and meant it regarding the pilot programs, but it didn't actually happen for the newest classes.

What is the basis for your assertion that the new admission criteria did not increase participation of students with 504s and IEPs in this year’s 4th grade CESs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

There are always things on on anonymous forums that are untrue but I have found a lot of talk on this forum to be shockingly accurate IRL. I think some parents are good at finding things out from their school or have friends who are teachers or are teachers or administrators themselves post on here but don't want to out themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

There are always things on on anonymous forums that are untrue but I have found a lot of talk on this forum to be shockingly accurate IRL. I think some parents are good at finding things out from their school or have friends who are teachers or are teachers or administrators themselves post on here but don't want to out themselves.

The other link is to an official MCPS document that provided the info listed as a numbered list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

There are always things on on anonymous forums that are untrue but I have found a lot of talk on this forum to be shockingly accurate IRL. I think some parents are good at finding things out from their school or have friends who are teachers or are teachers or administrators themselves post on here but don't want to out themselves.

Maybe, but not on this topic. It's mostly parents stating, authoritatively, why their DC [unfairly] didn't get into the "gifted" program when they clearly are "gifted." I understand why the county isn't being transparent, and I understand why that is so frustrating to so many here, but without the data about who were selected and who were not, we're just making ill-informed generalizations. Yes, some posters report their DCs' scores, but maybe it's the same 10 posters, and maybe what they are reporting isn't accurate. You have no way of telling. I see sweeping generalizations being made based on anonymous posts and what they have found out from friends, which may be better than no information, but not necessarily.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of good information on these forums, but gifted gifted program selection has never been transparent. I am close friends with two veteran ES school teachers, and they don't understand how kids are selected either (though they can provide anecdotal data about their own students who have been placed in the program over the years). There are far more students who can benefit than spaces in these programs, so, it is to the county's benefit to keep the admissions process so veiled.

[Anonymous]

From my individual anecdotal experience, an IEP helps. A friend of mine whose child had test scores a few percentage points lower than my DC got in, while DC did not (96th% vs. 99th%).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my individual anecdotal experience, an IEP helps. A friend of mine whose child had test scores a few percentage points lower than my DC got in, while DC did not (96th% vs. 99th%).

Was that the same for the MAP -- the child's scores (Fall/Winter) was lower than your kid's? I think people only consider one factor and forget that there is the report card, MAPs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS provides some information online at the link below, but this fails to provide any insight into the selection process. They state that multiple data points are considered which is vague. I'd hope their process had greater transparency.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/specialprograms/elementary/Selection%20Process%20for%20the%20Centers%20for%20Enriched%20Studies.pdf

To the OP - Please just go to the link. Nobody, and I mean nobody, on this forum (unless they actually were part of the selection process) can give you any better insight because there hasn't been much transparency, so poorly to partially informed speculation has rushed in and filled the vacuum.

There are always things on on anonymous forums that are untrue but I have found a lot of talk on this forum to be shockingly accurate IRL. I think some parents are good at finding things out from their school or have friends who are teachers or are teachers or administrators themselves post on here but don't want to out themselves.

Maybe, but not on this topic. It's mostly parents stating, authoritatively, why their DC [unfairly] didn't get into the "gifted" program when they clearly are "gifted." I understand why the county isn't being transparent, and I understand why that is so frustrating to so many here, but without the data about who were selected and who were not, we're just making ill-informed generalizations. Yes, some posters report their DCs' scores, but maybe it's the same 10 posters, and maybe what they are reporting isn't accurate. You have no way of telling. I see sweeping generalizations being made based on anonymous posts and what they have found out from friends, which may be better than no information, but not necessarily.

The info at this link is on point and directly from MCPS so authoritative https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an official write-up:

What data was used to evaluate my child?

1) Grade 3 report card,
2) local assessments MAP-R and MAP-M
3) reading level
4) access to math enrichment,
5) instructional need, a non-scored student questionnaire,
6) an outside assessment: Cognitive Test of Abilities Test (CogAT): Screener,
7) current student services such as receiving special education services, ESOL-English for Speakers of Other Languages, 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced Meals
.

https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

At our school, we were told that reading levels are no longer specifically assessed. Kids read "at", below or ahead. They don't do further assessment than this. Can a teacher chime in to let us know if this is true. I don't really care about CES, but just curious if teachers are still assessing students quarterly like they had in the past. Additionally, I don't see any type of "math enrichment" given. DS scored extremely high on MAP-M and he does the exact same thing others kids do. FWIW, I don't have an issue with this, but the criteria provided above seems outdated.

4 is definitely an odd thing to take in to account since it is school dependent, but it's possible your child did not make the cut. At our school they took only kids with 99th+ percentile scores for enrichment. A lot of parents who presumably have kids with 90+ percentile scores assume there isn't enrichment since I have heard them grumble about it but there is.

I'm the PP you had responded to. My DS has always been 99%, usually 2-3 grades up. I know the MAP-P doesn't count for much because it's K-2nd, but he also took the MAP-M in 3rd and scored somewhere 99% for 6th graders. And he definitely does not get any enrichment.

No, he scored in the 99th percentile for 3rd graders, he was compared nationally to other 3rd graders who took the test.
6th graders don't even take the same test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's an official write-up:

What data was used to evaluate my child?

1) Grade 3 report card,
2) local assessments MAP-R and MAP-M
3) reading level
4) access to math enrichment,
5) instructional need, a non-scored student questionnaire,
6) an outside assessment: Cognitive Test of Abilities Test (CogAT): Screener,
7) current student services such as receiving special education services, ESOL-English for Speakers of Other Languages, 504 accommodations plan and Free and Reduced Meals
.

https://bit.ly/2qTW9sp

At our school, we were told that reading levels are no longer specifically assessed. Kids read "at", below or ahead. They don't do further assessment than this. Can a teacher chime in to let us know if this is true. I don't really care about CES, but just curious if teachers are still assessing students quarterly like they had in the past. Additionally, I don't see any type of "math enrichment" given. DS scored extremely high on MAP-M and he does the exact same thing others kids do. FWIW, I don't have an issue with this, but the criteria provided above seems outdated.

4 is definitely an odd thing to take in to account since it is school dependent, but it's possible your child did not make the cut. At our school they took only kids with 99th+ percentile scores for enrichment. A lot of parents who presumably have kids with 90+ percentile scores assume there isn't enrichment since I have heard them grumble about it but there is.

I'm the PP you had responded to. My DS has always been 99%, usually 2-3 grades up. I know the MAP-P doesn't count for much because it's K-2nd, but he also took the MAP-M in 3rd and scored somewhere 99% for 6th graders. And he definitely does not get any enrichment.

My DS had the similar scores back in K-3rd. He didn't receive any math enrichment at all during the Gr3, and all he got was 2-3 hours of chromebook self-teaching time everyday using some online app during the math classes for the entire year. BTW we were in a "W-cluster" high-performing ES, and no 3rd grader received any math enrichment as far as I know. Luckily he got into CES, and he is revived now.

Math enrichment is written into curriculum 2.0 for all grade levels. Teachers are supposed to offer some enrichment to all students. Receiving math enrichment doesn't mean a pull out or special class, it means something like received enrichment 70% of the time it was offered - so some students needed reteaching or extra practice while other students did enrichment. It's marked on the report card with a Y if your student receives enrichment.

Not sure why they consider it for the CES since it is not a math program though.