Additional neuropsych testing for kid at college/law school level. LSAT. Anyone go through this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - wow! Thank you so far. I really do appreciate the responses - I was afraid no one would respond. I am a lawyer as is wife and we both hated it so know what everyone is saying. We've advised DD how grueling the field can be and how poor the job opportunities are now compared to when we graduated. DD is drawn to it - she's taking a con law course now at college and doing spectacularly in it, mostly because she likes to argue. We've thrown every AboveTheLaw column about life as an associate at her but she still thinks she wants to do it. The counselor is a great idea. She's also talking Masters' Degree. I see her more as as an (absent-minded) academic than practicing lawyer. Keep those comments coming and THANK YOU! Much appreciated!

If you see her as an academic type, law school is not the right course. Law school prepares you to be a lawyer, not an academic. Unless you are at the top of your class at Yale, in which case you may be competitive for one of the handfuls of academic jobs open per year. This notion that you can do anything with a law degree is not founded in the real it of today's job market. (Again, I work at a law school and have counseled hundreds of students over the years. I have seen the carnage and the kids that DISPROPORTIONATELY struggle are the ones with anxiety. The ones that fail the bar also seem to be the ones that d struggled with anxiety in disproportionate numbers.)

But I have no doubt your daughter will go ahead and try because law schools are full of students who ignored good advice and thought they would succeed because they liked their undergrad ConLaw class and are "good at arguing" and had no idea that neither of these things bears a lick of relation to how well one will do in law school.

Since you work at a law school, can you answer the question as to when to do neuropsych testing again and when to take the LSAT, assuming two years off after college graduation?

[Anonymous]

^^ And if you have run across any good sources on disability testing and the LSAT, I would appreciate links so I can forward to DD.

Yes, I know all about teaching at the law school level and the SCOTUS clerkships needed. I didn't say teaching at the law school level.

[Anonymous]

Could you please tell me which high school your daughter went to? It sounds like they did an amazing job! Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has your daughter looked at public policy programs? I thought about law school, but the tuition was just too much to stomach (which was a great decision because I would have graduated in 2009) and ended up at policy school. I’m working in a federal agency doing policy work and it’s really fulfilling and I still get to dabble in law-type work (including rev/statute and court decisions).

Yes, she has! She's already searched out a dual BA/Master's program in public policy. She's very excited about it. The courses match her interests. Can you tell me more about your experience? How were job prospects once you finished the Master's program (if that's what you did). Thanks

I’m a new poster. I did the master’s in public policy. Worked in consulting for about 10 years then went to the client (federal agency) and now doing policy work. I manage a lot of people with reasonable accommodations. Government is definitely the way to go if you need some sort of accommodation - there is nowhere else in the real world that would tolerate special arrangements to do work. Private sector chews up and spits anyone out who doesn’t easily do the work - there are just too many candidates out there. If you have a documented disability you can get into a special hiring pool for the government - Schedule A. Google will provide more info.

[Anonymous]

Np here
I hope your daughter disregards the naysayers and slays it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your child got extra time and got a 36 on the ACT then you are officially gaming the system.

People get extra time for different reasons. For example, if a person has a scribe and reader accommodation (human or electronic), they get extra time because it takes longer to take the test in that mode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who works in a law school and was a practicing attorney, let me implore you to discourage her from becoming a lawyer. Anxiety and depression is a huge problem in this population, and for people who are already prone to these issues, law school will certainly trigger a flare up. I can't tell you how many students I've worked with who thought they had their anxiety under control only to suffer a total breakdown after a semester or two.

Law is not a good profession for anxious people, yet oddly they seem drawn to it. People really need to educate themselves better before choosing this career.

I agree that OP's daughter should not become a lawyer, but it's because of her combination of anxiety AND cognitive limitations. Anxiety alone doesn't preclude a legal career as long as you have it under control AND you are cognitively able to do the work. The real disaster would come if you were unable to do the work AND were anxious as well. I have clinical anxiety and was actually able to excel in law school and several areas of practice because I got really good CBT for anxiety during my 1L year. Yes, I am sure my anxiety makes some things really hard on me (especially hearings) but it has not really held me back.

On the other hand, any kind of law practice is definitely stressful, so if prioritizing your mental health is your #1 goal, then yeah, you probably should avoid the law. But although my career has been imperfect, I'm glad I chose it, and I think I'd be dealing with the same anxiety issues in whatever career I would have chosen.

I'm happy it worked out for you, but honestly, you are an outlier.

How so? I mean, I don't love my job currently, but that's because I'm a fed. I still really enjoy the law. The key is to find the type of practice that works for you, in an area where you can have normalish work hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here
I hope your daughter disregards the naysayers and slays it!

I hope so too, but the idea that someone with poor memory and executive function is going to "slay" law school and the legal profession is dangerously naive.

OP needs to let their daughter sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Another lawyer here, with a 2E kid with ADHD. I agree about the law probably not being a good fit. I certainly would not encourage my kid to do it.

[Anonymous]

Another lawyer married to one and I know lots of lawyers who have ADHD however you would never know that they have problems with short term memory or issues with executive functioning nor need/use extended time on the LSAT. These attorneys are all late 40+ when kids were not diagnosed with ADHD like they are now and their ADHD was mild enough that they learned to compensate without supports. They all attended top 14 law schools too meaning they had top grades and LSAT scores in undergrad.

I agree with everyone else that a career in law is not a good fit for someone with executive functioning and memory issues... plus an anxiety diagnosis will make life miserable.

But just having ADHD does not rule out a career in law. Really depends on how the ADHD manifests.

[Anonymous]

I don’t have time to write more because I have a court appearance, but I say GO DD! She’s got a dream and a plan she’s excited about. Don’t we all want that for our kids? If it turns out not to be the best fit for her, that’s ok. She can make another plan.

I’m a lawyer and love it. I’m not in big law (anymore) for lots of reasons, including that I also love my family and my mental health, but there is more than one way to be a lawyer and lots of paths to happiness in this world.

I would say she should go to the best law school she can get into, but it sounds like that won’t be too hard for her. I was at a t-14 school and we all agreed it that getting in was the hardest part. Once you’re in, you’re good, but I don’t think that’s true of lower-ranked schools or even all top schools.

[Anonymous]

Lots of lawyers have anxiety. In some ways, it can make them really good lawyers, assuming they channel it appropriately and can manage the work load. But executive function and a good memory are probably 2 of the most important things for a lawyer. I would counsel her to try another path. Even under the best circumstances the practice of law can be difficult. Adding in things like exec function and memory deficits will likely lead to a disaster.

And everyone loves Con law! It is interesting and fun. Nothing like practicing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have time to write more because I have a court appearance, but I say GO DD! She’s got a dream and a plan she’s excited about. Don’t we all want that for our kids? If it turns out not to be the best fit for her, that’s ok. She can make another plan.

I’m a lawyer and love it. I’m not in big law (anymore) for lots of reasons, including that I also love my family and my mental health, but there is more than one way to be a lawyer and lots of paths to happiness in this world.

I would say she should go to the best law school she can get into, but it sounds like that won’t be too hard for her. I was at a t-14 school and we all agreed it that getting in was the hardest part. Once you’re in, you’re good, but I don’t think that’s true of lower-ranked schools or even all top schools.

She can make another plan, then do what with her 300k debt?

Look, I agree with you that there are many different ways to practice the law; and that mental health challenges or learning differences do not preclude a succesful career in the law. But short-term memory issues, plus executive function issues, plus anxiety ... just are not a hopeful mix of elements. If someone was truly, truly brilliant, they may be able to compensate and be a law professor. But they'd still have to be able to have the ability to sit down and research and write long papers, and meet deadlines. And those people generally don't need accommodations because they have worked out their own. I just don't think someone who doesn't have the executive functioning to be able to take the LSAT in the normal amount of time is ever going to be a happy or successful lawyer. Dyselxic? Sure. ADHD? Ok. Depression and/or anxiety? Keep and eye on it. It's really the lack of short-term memory and executive function that make going to law school a really bad idea here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of lawyers have anxiety. In some ways, it can make them really good lawyers, assuming they channel it appropriately and can manage the work load. But executive function and a good memory are probably 2 of the most important things for a lawyer. I would counsel her to try another path. Even under the best circumstances the practice of law can be difficult. Adding in things like exec function and memory deficits will likely lead to a disaster.

And everyone loves Con law! It is interesting and fun. Nothing like practicing!

Lol. I actually hated Con Law because it was SO SLOW and there was not enough black letter law to memorize. And class was dominated by the poli-sci majors pontificating.

[Anonymous]

The combination of anxiety and short-term memory issues is not a good fit for law school. Yes, she may like to argue, but your success in law school isn't based on whether you like to argue.