Additional neuropsych testing for kid at college/law school level. LSAT. Anyone go through this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before I post my question, thanks to all the parents here who helped me raise two SN kids. I've learned a lot from this forum and have tried to return to return the favor and share what our family has learned. DD is now 20, a 2e child, but had an IEP along the way and finished out high school in a special needs school. She was tested many times, the most recent (the $3K type) junior or senior year of high school and that testing (ADHD/Anxiety/exec. functioning problems)has been sufficient to give her extra time (much needed) on the ACT and then later in College. The standard is to repeat the testing every three years. So far the college hasn't asked for it to be redone. DD is doing GREAT in college and is managing her time well but it's become obvious that she has anxiety issues, exec. functioning issues and definitely a short-term memory problem. DD is a junior and has the drive and skills to make it through a masters' degree or law school and wants that (we've made the right parental noises about the lousy job market for law school graduates but DD is driven). So the question is when to retest and should it be a new tester? The standard expectation now is to take two years gap between graduation from college and law school. The LSAT requires a lot of prep. You can get extra time on it by doing the same submissions as DD's SN school did for the ACT but I don't know anyone who has done it. Has anyone here had a SN/2e child go through the LSAT and can you advise when DD should be retested? What was your experience when submitting the testing for the LSAT? Do I need a SN counselor? Money is an issue since we have three in college but if we have to do the $3K testing now, we have to do it. If the College doesn't ask for it, should we put it off the testing until well-before DD applies to take the LSAT? DD is not medicated (I've read that if student is medicated the LSAT board assumes the problem has been corrected so no additional time will be given). Please no snark - it's been hard enough to get to this stage

Your underlying premise is flawed. [/quote]


No, I've actually been astounded at how well DD has done in college. Straight As. perfect record. great internships. Superb letters of recommendation and the most amazing development is that she writes papers well, unlike another SN child we have who can't organize his thoughts well enough to write papers. I credit the SN high school she went to. I don't know how she will test on the LSAT although she did get a 35, then 36 upon retest on the ACT. If she wants to go to law school, she has the record for a good one and the drive and the I.Q. That's her decision, however. I have suggested she sit in on a lot of boring law school classes before ultimately deciding. But this is putting the cart before the horse. We don't know yet how she will perform on the LSAT. So back to the testing and extra time question if anyone has an real-life experience.

[Anonymous]

If your child got extra time and got a 36 on the ACT then you are officially gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your child got extra time and got a 36 on the ACT then you are officially gaming the system.

Not at all. I said 2e. Kid has an astronomical I.Q. SN school put in the applications for the ACT. Some students got time and a half. Some got 2x. Our other child is autistic (with FCPS IEP) but got a 32 on ACT first shot. He, too, is 2e but is visibly impaired, can't maintain eye contact and can't write a paper to save her life. He would not have made it through college without accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Your DD is not a child, she is an adult. I don't think there is any need for more testing and would more testing really provide any additional insights.

As an adult with ADHD couple with anxiety and depression, I tried law school and failed out first semester. It was a disaster. I probably could have regrouped and struggled through but it would not have been worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your DD is not a child, she is an adult. I don't think there is any need for more testing and would more testing really provide any additional insights.

As an adult with ADHD couple with anxiety and depression, I tried law school and failed out first semester. It was a disaster. I probably could have regrouped and struggled through but it would not have been worth it.

Thank you for your frank and honest response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your DD is not a child, she is an adult. I don't think there is any need for more testing and would more testing really provide any additional insights.

As an adult with ADHD couple with anxiety and depression, I tried law school and failed out first semester. It was a disaster. I probably could have regrouped and struggled through but it would not have been worth it.

Testing to update disability accommodations is usually required every three years by most college, whether you think it is necessary or not. https://www.understood.org/en/school-learning/choosing-starting-school/leaving-high-school/7-things-to-know-about-college-disability-services

[Anonymous]

OP, you sound like a very loving parent so I don't mean this harshly, but it strikes me as a red flag that you are asking these questions for DD. She needs to be mature and competent enough to figure this all out on her own before she even thinks about applying, or law school will almost certainly be the disaster that everyone else is predicting. Successful law schools are fully functioning adults who have zero need for parental involvement in their education. As a lawyer and a parent of a child with a similar profile, my advice is to treat her interest in law school as an opportunity to prove she is capable of self-advocating and navigating the accommodation process on her own -- and if not, that's a strong sign she's not ready to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But employers won’t offer extra time or accommodations. I thought those really needed to end by college.

The federal government and most large employers do now, especially for autism, but you need to file the paperwork. Extra time is allowed on all graduate exams such as GRE, LSAT, Med boards. https://sachscenter.com/testing-extended-time-sat-gre-gmat/

Clients pay on a billable hour. You don't get extra time. You need strong executive function to manage your time. You need short term memory. She may get accommodations to get through law school, but she's going to really struggle to function in the real world.

OP, if your DD wants to do law school, she should work as a paralegal for a couple of years first to make sure that she can function at a law firm. It doesn't sound like a good fit for her skill set.

Not all legal practice bills by the hour. There’s a very famous disability rights lawyer who is blind. Brilliant writer. Surely does not work as quickly as biglaw would required.

Yes, and that lawyer joined his own family's lawfirm straight out of undergrad, which is not exactly an option open to OP's child or to the vaaaaaaaaaast majority of young associates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you sound like a very loving parent so I don't mean this harshly, but it strikes me as a red flag that you are asking these questions for DD. She needs to be mature and competent enough to figure this all out on her own before she even thinks about applying, or law school will almost certainly be the disaster that everyone else is predicting. Successful law schools are fully functioning adults who have zero need for parental involvement in their education. As a lawyer and a parent of a child with a similar profile, my advice is to treat her interest in law school as an opportunity to prove she is capable of self-advocating and navigating the accommodation process on her own -- and if not, that's a strong sign she's not ready to apply.

(I'm a lawyer who didn't proof read -- obviously mean "successful law students"...)

[Anonymous]

* oops, I mean joined his own family's law firm straight out of law school.

Besides, being blind is not the kind of impediment to a job as an attorney as an exectutive processing disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who works in a law school and was a practicing attorney, let me implore you to discourage her from becoming a lawyer. Anxiety and depression is a huge problem in this population, and for people who are already prone to these issues, law school will certainly trigger a flare up. I can't tell you how many students I've worked with who thought they had their anxiety under control only to suffer a total breakdown after a semester or two.

Law is not a good profession for anxious people, yet oddly they seem drawn to it. People really need to educate themselves better before choosing this career.

+1M. OMG, anything but law school. A lifetime of suffering.

[Anonymous]

OP - I would encourage you to get your daughter some really good career counseling sharing all testing with the person, too, so that someone beside her parent can point out the plus and minus aspects of the profession with her. And also talk about job possibilities in areas of her strengths that you may not have. It would seem that taking time off before any graduate studies is key for her. In that time DD ought to be in as independent a living situation as possible to see how she does in the real world of handling her daily living tasks and the demands of some sort of job or internships or volunteer work in an area of interest to see if it is for her. I would try and use your connections even next summer to get her a law related job or volunteer job. I also agree that looking at area paralegal programs might be a first step and much less expensive waynfornher to see if lane is for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - wow! Thank you so far. I really do appreciate the responses - I was afraid no one would respond. I am a lawyer as is wife and we both hated it so know what everyone is saying. We've advised DD how grueling the field can be and how poor the job opportunities are now compared to when we graduated. DD is drawn to it - she's taking a con law course now at college and doing spectacularly in it, mostly because she likes to argue. We've thrown every AboveTheLaw column about life as an associate at her but she still thinks she wants to do it. The counselor is a great idea. She's also talking Masters' Degree. I see her more as as an (absent-minded) academic than practicing lawyer. Keep those comments coming and THANK YOU! Much appreciated!

If you see her as an academic type, law school is not the right course. Law school prepares you to be a lawyer, not an academic. Unless you are at the top of your class at Yale, in which case you may be competitive for one of the handfuls of academic jobs open per year. This notion that you can do anything with a law degree is not founded in the real it of today's job market. (Again, I work at a law school and have counseled hundreds of students over the years. I have seen the carnage and the kids that DISPROPORTIONATELY struggle are the ones with anxiety. The ones that fail the bar also seem to be the ones that d struggled with anxiety in disproportionate numbers.)

But I have no doubt your daughter will go ahead and try because law schools are full of students who ignored good advice and thought they would succeed because they liked their undergrad ConLaw class and are "good at arguing" and had no idea that neither of these things bears a lick of relation to how well one will do in law school.

[Anonymous]

Has your daughter looked at public policy programs? I thought about law school, but the tuition was just too much to stomach (which was a great decision because I would have graduated in 2009) and ended up at policy school. I’m working in a federal agency doing policy work and it’s really fulfilling and I still get to dabble in law-type work (including rev/statute and court decisions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has your daughter looked at public policy programs? I thought about law school, but the tuition was just too much to stomach (which was a great decision because I would have graduated in 2009) and ended up at policy school. I’m working in a federal agency doing policy work and it’s really fulfilling and I still get to dabble in law-type work (including rev/statute and court decisions).

Yes, she has! She's already searched out a dual BA/Master's program in public policy. She's very excited about it. The courses match her interests. Can you tell me more about your experience? How were job prospects once you finished the Master's program (if that's what you did). Thanks