MC2 program at Northwood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you decide between an AP class and an MC class? Which is considered more challenging?

I know educators who have taught both. There are many MCPS AP teachers who moonlight at Montgomery College as adjuncts teaching introductory courses at night. The AP classes are harder. They include more class time and often have a stronger cohort of students.

AP classes are much easier particularly on Math courses. That’s why many colleges don’t accept APs anymore

Can you define "many"?

[Anonymous]

Just visited one of the Ivies and they will give AP credit but will not allow freshman to transfer credit from other colleges that was earned in HS either from dual registration or a summer program.

[Anonymous]

When I spoke to the director of the program a couple of years ago, he indicated to me that students apply as freshman to college park (due to more scholarship and financial aid opportunities). They were not applying as transfer students. I don't quite get the nuance, but it seemed a bit more complicated than a simple transfer process.

I would think that many kids may have an associates degree in a course of study they don't want to continue at UMCP (since the choices of associates degrees are so limited). Maybe some of the classes won't count towards their new major. Who knows.

The director of mc2 at northwood was great. If you have a kid that's really interested I would call and have him walk through the program and transfer/admittance process to a bachelor's degree program, not rely on advice on this forum. It is a very new program (and small), so you aren't going to get many people here who've actually had a kid graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:5 students graduated with an AA degree last year, there are 14 set to graduate this year, and the number in the program doubles every year after that. There are about 80 freshmen in the program this year. All of the students who graduated from the program last year went on to UMD system schools, and all 60 credits transferred. It is definitely a challenging program, with students taking AP US History in 9th grade, 2 AP and 2 MC courses in their sophomore year, 3 AP and 3 MC courses in their junior year, and all of senior year at MC. The students who are I the program are high achievers, and as hard as the program is, they love it and form a tight community. They also are able to participate in organizations and activities at MC (except sports) and one was actually a chemistry teaching assistant last year!

The program is pretty prescribed the first three years. They work with an MC counselor in their junior year to select an area of study and their classes for senior year, where they have a little more flexibility. DD is interested in the humanities and arts pathway, but there's also a STEM pathway, and a social sciences and health pathway. It's expanded a lot since the first year, when it was just a biochem major. Definitely a lot more students interested in it and finishing the program now. Absolutely prepares students for the rigor of college classes.

Thanks for this update! Awesome that all 5 got all 60 credits transferred to UMD. Well done!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I spoke to the director of the program a couple of years ago, he indicated to me that students apply as freshman to college park (due to more scholarship and financial aid opportunities). They were not applying as transfer students. I don't quite get the nuance, but it seemed a bit more complicated than a simple transfer process.

I would think that many kids may have an associates degree in a course of study they don't want to continue at UMCP (since the choices of associates degrees are so limited). Maybe some of the classes won't count towards their new major. Who knows.

The director of mc2 at northwood was great. If you have a kid that's really interested I would call and have him walk through the program and transfer/admittance process to a bachelor's degree program, not rely on advice on this forum. It is a very new program (and small), so you aren't going to get many people here who've actually had a kid graduate.

This is really great to know. Thank you.

I suppose if the kids can transfer in automatically as juniors, UMCP should accept them almost automatically as freshman.

[Anonymous]

And once they get there, they can decide to graduate in 2, 2.5 or 3 years with all of the credits they already have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard that it is not a guaranteed admission into UMCP. Does anyone know if that's the case? Is it written somewhere that it's guaranteed admission?

My understanding is that an AA degree from a MD community college is guaranteed admission to UMCO.

I would check with the program director to be certain - AA degree completion does not guarantee transfer admission to UMD.

[Anonymous]

So this is an amazing program for kids who are likely not to go to college but have the aptitude to pass a community college class. It will give a kid in this situation an AA degree when they graduate which will help with their job prospects. In the past these kids would simply end their education with a high school degree only and have limited employment options. It may also encourage that kid later on to go back to college at night to get a full degree, especially if they land at an employee that partially pays for tuition. I applaud MCPS for having this program for those kids.

The option is not academically the best path for kids who are bound for college. The classes at MC are very easy and will likely not count at most schools outside of UM that these kids would attend. You need to check in advance with the schools you think your child may attend if you your plan is to use this option to save money on college. AP classes with a high score on the test are seen more favorably by admissions and more likely to waive requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this is an amazing program for kids who are likely not to go to college but have the aptitude to pass a community college class. It will give a kid in this situation an AA degree when they graduate which will help with their job prospects. In the past these kids would simply end their education with a high school degree only and have limited employment options. It may also encourage that kid later on to go back to college at night to get a full degree, especially if they land at an employee that partially pays for tuition. I applaud MCPS for having this program for those kids.

The option is not academically the best path for kids who are bound for college. The classes at MC are very easy and will likely not count at most schools outside of UM that these kids would attend. You need to check in advance with the schools you think your child may attend if you your plan is to use this option to save money on college. AP classes with a high score on the test are seen more favorably by admissions and more likely to waive requirements.

All 5 of the 2018 first graduating class from the program are at UMCP.

[Anonymous]

^ I wouldn't go so far to say this is a program for kids who aren't college bound but I will be curious to see the data over the years for where kids go and how many credits transfer

[Anonymous]

All 5 of the 2018 first graduating class from the program are at UMCP.

Right but its being marketed more broadly and some parents may not understand why the credits don't transfer at non-UMD schools. It can also vary by schools within a University and intended majors. If the school or major is more rigorous at a school, the faculty are likely to intensely oppose taking credit from Montgomery Community College. Their argument is that the classes don't provide the same level of foundation or mastery etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

All 5 of the 2018 first graduating class from the program are at UMCP.

Right but its being marketed more broadly and some parents may not understand why the credits don't transfer at non-UMD schools. It can also vary by schools within a University and intended majors. If the school or major is more rigorous at a school, the faculty are likely to intensely oppose taking credit from Montgomery Community College. Their argument is that the classes don't provide the same level of foundation or mastery etc.

It’s a good thing Northwood provides parent presentations about the program and the director is so accessible to answering questions. That means there is plenty of opportunity to get accurate and informed answers to questions somewhere other than DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this is an amazing program for kids who are likely not to go to college but have the aptitude to pass a community college class. It will give a kid in this situation an AA degree when they graduate which will help with their job prospects. In the past these kids would simply end their education with a high school degree only and have limited employment options. It may also encourage that kid later on to go back to college at night to get a full degree, especially if they land at an employee that partially pays for tuition. I applaud MCPS for having this program for those kids.

The option is not academically the best path for kids who are bound for college. The classes at MC are very easy and will likely not count at most schools outside of UM that these kids would attend. You need to check in advance with the schools you think your child may attend if you your plan is to use this option to save money on college. AP classes with a high score on the test are seen more favorably by admissions and more likely to waive requirements.

This is really, really uninformed. If you look at the pathway these kids take in high school, it includes AP US history in 9th, AP Gov in 20th, AP Bio and Chem, AP English... And your argument is that these kids wouldn’t otherwise be college bound? In what world do kids take all these APs and then not go to college?

[Anonymous]

If you look at the pathway these kids take in high school, it includes AP US history in 9th, AP Gov in 20th, AP Bio and Chem, AP English... And your argument is that these kids wouldn’t otherwise be college bound? In what world do kids take all these APs and then not go to college?

Whoa, please walk out of your bubble! Northwood is a high poverty school. There are MANY kids who have no way to pay for college. They can't even conceive of how they would do it. Its a luxury for many to simply stay in school to graduate rather than drop out and start working full time even ifs just minimum wage. Some of these kids have high aptitude but not high enough to get a full scholarship. This program enables them to get an AA degree. MCPS also pushes many kids into AP classes and you see the corresponding failure rates. Part of this to make MCPS numbers of kids taking AP courses look better and some is a questionable argument that even if a kid fails it was a good experience to expose them to a higher level class. So as the program grows, you will have kids who fail AP exams but can easily pass a Montgomery Community College class. This is still good for kids who have no way of paying for college because they can come out with an AA.

For kids whose parents can pay for college or plan to take out loans, this option is only good if their top pick is UMD and you have confirmed that your intended school/major will accept those credits. Call the Dean's office for the school that awards the degree major that your child is interested in taking and talk to them about whether those classes are accepted for credit. If you get an associate or assistant dean (do not worry the title sounds high level but its not, these are accessible friendly people) they will usually be happy to talk with you and share whether there are any potential changes in the future on what is or isn't transferrable. I would not ask MCPS as they have zero control over what these schools will or will not do.

Its also pretty dubious as to why MCPS is inviting a student from Tilden to come to Northwood which is extremely overcrowded. The Tilden student, who probably can afford college anyway, would be better served taking advanced courses at their home school rather than moving to Northwood for the community college program. The Northwood students would be better served having an in boundary FARMS student take the seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you look at the pathway these kids take in high school, it includes AP US history in 9th, AP Gov in 20th, AP Bio and Chem, AP English... And your argument is that these kids wouldn’t otherwise be college bound? In what world do kids take all these APs and then not go to college?

Whoa, please walk out of your bubble! Northwood is a high poverty school. There are MANY kids who have no way to pay for college. They can't even conceive of how they would do it. Its a luxury for many to simply stay in school to graduate rather than drop out and start working full time even ifs just minimum wage. Some of these kids have high aptitude but not high enough to get a full scholarship. This program enables them to get an AA degree. MCPS also pushes many kids into AP classes and you see the corresponding failure rates. Part of this to make MCPS numbers of kids taking AP courses look better and some is a questionable argument that even if a kid fails it was a good experience to expose them to a higher level class. So as the program grows, you will have kids who fail AP exams but can easily pass a Montgomery Community College class. This is still good for kids who have no way of paying for college because they can come out with an AA.

For kids whose parents can pay for college or plan to take out loans, this option is only good if their top pick is UMD and you have confirmed that your intended school/major will accept those credits. Call the Dean's office for the school that awards the degree major that your child is interested in taking and talk to them about whether those classes are accepted for credit. If you get an associate or assistant dean (do not worry the title sounds high level but its not, these are accessible friendly people) they will usually be happy to talk with you and share whether there are any potential changes in the future on what is or isn't transferrable. I would not ask MCPS as they have zero control over what these schools will or will not do.

Its also pretty dubious as to why MCPS is inviting a student from Tilden to come to Northwood which is extremely overcrowded. The Tilden student, who probably can afford college anyway, would be better served taking advanced courses at their home school rather than moving to Northwood for the community college program. The Northwood students would be better served having an in boundary FARMS student take the seat.

Do you actually know anyone in the program? The kids we know in the program now are all UMC, , with highly educated parents. These kids would have no problem attending a four year college.
Northwood is probably around 50% FARMS. That’s higher than many people on DCUM are comfortable with, but it means about half the kids are not low income.