DC United's New Youth Plan

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

Thanks for posting this. It confirms that the open system creates strong incentives to invest in lower divisions even in countries without much prior soccer history/culture. An open system is superior to the closed single-entity pro league that the US soccer adopted.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

I think the business model element struck out to me the most in regards to USL teams being promoted to MLS. The forgotten thing is European nations are small by comparison. It isn't that big a leap for a second division team in the UK to absorb the added costs that come with promotion. From season length to travel budget.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

Thanks for posting this. It confirms that the open system creates strong incentives to invest in lower divisions even in countries without much prior soccer history/culture. An open system is superior to the closed single-entity pro league that the US soccer adopted.

It actually doesn't, at all, and even the Deloitte report pointed to the fact that a lot of investment has been made because the system is closed.

I'd like to see us move toward an open system, but robotic spewing of talking points isn't going to help.

To get closer to the topic at hand, I *would* like to see more clubs with senior teams, integrating youth and adult teams. Why wouldn't LMVSC or Alexandria or Arlington enter an adult team in the WPL? And we're starting to see some national frameworks emerge (not all of them in the hands of people who know what they're doing, but baby steps), so perhaps such a club really could play at a half-decent level one day.

We're decades away from any possibility of an LMVSC climbing the ladder to D2 or so -- the AFC Wimbledons of the world are rare and built on the ashes of a previous club, and the Hoffenheims of the world require a zillionaire investor who, in the U.S. model, would simply buy up a ton of real estate, build his own stadium, and join MLS -- but I don't see any reason why some enterprising people can't create a league with a good Arlington-Christos rivalry.

I agree that I would also like to see some local clubs having senior teams. Even if in local WPL or Senior CCL style competition similar to what they do in the summer w college players in Pro23. From there it would be great to have those teams move on to NPSL as it already includes local clubs with you systems.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

Thanks for posting this. It confirms that the open system creates strong incentives to invest in lower divisions even in countries without much prior soccer history/culture. An open system is superior to the closed single-entity pro league that the US soccer adopted.

It actually doesn't, at all, and even the Deloitte report pointed to the fact that a lot of investment has been made because the system is closed.

I'd like to see us move toward an open system, but robotic spewing of talking points isn't going to help.

To get closer to the topic at hand, I *would* like to see more clubs with senior teams, integrating youth and adult teams. Why wouldn't LMVSC or Alexandria or Arlington enter an adult team in the WPL? And we're starting to see some national frameworks emerge (not all of them in the hands of people who know what they're doing, but baby steps), so perhaps such a club really could play at a half-decent level one day.

We're decades away from any possibility of an LMVSC climbing the ladder to D2 or so -- the AFC Wimbledons of the world are rare and built on the ashes of a previous club, and the Hoffenheims of the world require a zillionaire investor who, in the U.S. model, would simply buy up a ton of real estate, build his own stadium, and join MLS -- but I don't see any reason why some enterprising people can't create a league with a good Arlington-Christos rivalry.[/quote

Yes. I think the first step would be for clubs to establish a development structure that runs all the way to U23, then they should see how they can put a senior team together. THEN we look into integrating them into an open pro/rel pyramid.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

Thanks for posting this. It confirms that the open system creates strong incentives to invest in lower divisions even in countries without much prior soccer history/culture. An open system is superior to the closed single-entity pro league that the US soccer adopted.

It actually doesn't, at all, and even the Deloitte report pointed to the fact that a lot of investment has been made because the system is closed.

I'd like to see us move toward an open system, but robotic spewing of talking points isn't going to help.

To get closer to the topic at hand, I *would* like to see more clubs with senior teams, integrating youth and adult teams. Why wouldn't LMVSC or Alexandria or Arlington enter an adult team in the WPL? And we're starting to see some national frameworks emerge (not all of them in the hands of people who know what they're doing, but baby steps), so perhaps such a club really could play at a half-decent level one day.

We're decades away from any possibility of an LMVSC climbing the ladder to D2 or so -- the AFC Wimbledons of the world are rare and built on the ashes of a previous club, and the Hoffenheims of the world require a zillionaire investor who, in the U.S. model, would simply buy up a ton of real estate, build his own stadium, and join MLS -- but I don't see any reason why some enterprising people can't create a league with a good Arlington-Christos rivalry.

It costs more than $150 million to buy your way into the MLS, and even then only if you kiss Don Garber's ring, and you're a better ring kisser than all the others trying to kiss his ring.

It would cost a lot less to invest in a lower division club in the US, but why? No matter how well you do, you still can't move to a higher division without that $150mn and ring kissing. So why spend the money in the first place, and even if you do own a lower division club, how much money are you really going to put into it, with little hope of a ROI no matter how well that money is spent?

And yes, there are North American investors interested in putting their millions into lower division soccer. Michael Eisner: https://variety.com/2017/tv/global/disney-michael-eisner-portsmouth-soccer-1202514705/ Steve Nash: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/01/05/vancouver-whitecaps-part-owner-steve-nash-buys-stake-real-mallorca

And there are others. Imagine if this kind of money were invested here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/american-owners-world-soccer-clubs-football-beyond-premier-league

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

I don't think that it is appropriate to single out LMVSC as an inferior club. They have some strong teams. Last year, for example, LMVSC 03 team won the state cup. They beat Loudoun Red 8-1 in that competition.

Agreed LMVSC/Alexandria combination would be an interesting DA joint venture, like Pipeline/SAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcunited.com/post/2018/09/11/dc-united-academy-announce-dmv-pathway-2-pro-program?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter

Soooo, if you're not one of their designated "elite" 5 soccer clubs or you are not a partner club, you're just rec. Some of their partner clubs suck and are completely disorganized.

I hadn't focused on that bottom tier. It does say "rec & feeder teams," but the idea that Potomac or Bethesda are going to feel kids through PPA, or Alexandria is going to feed kids through Arlington, is pretty funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LMVSC?

Why not? Their older teams are doing really well and have some really talented players that should probably be getting more attention. The younger teams also have lots of potential and they seem to have coaches that really care about developing the individual players while trying to play quality soccer instead of kick and run. The diversity in the community that feeds LMVSC is passionate about soccer and could possibly support a lower division team if clubs were given the opportunity to enter an open system of promotion/relegation.

Here you go ...

https://rantingsoccerdad.com/all-about-promotion-relegation/

Thanks, but main point was why the poster had an issue with LMVSC being listed as a club and not the others. Why is that club inferior to the others listed. Yes it doesn't have DA, large $ resources, or as many "high profile" coaches but is doing more with less. 2 of the clubs listed play kick ball most of the time and rely mostly on player's size and physicality.

That's fair enough -- I probably should've responded to a different post. And I like LMVSC.

To respond again to the wrong post, here's a word about investment in lower divisions:

https://twitter.com/NipunChopra7/status/1039880957069877248

Thanks for posting this. It confirms that the open system creates strong incentives to invest in lower divisions even in countries without much prior soccer history/culture. An open system is superior to the closed single-entity pro league that the US soccer adopted.

It actually doesn't, at all, and even the Deloitte report pointed to the fact that a lot of investment has been made because the system is closed.

I'd like to see us move toward an open system, but robotic spewing of talking points isn't going to help.

To get closer to the topic at hand, I *would* like to see more clubs with senior teams, integrating youth and adult teams. Why wouldn't LMVSC or Alexandria or Arlington enter an adult team in the WPL? And we're starting to see some national frameworks emerge (not all of them in the hands of people who know what they're doing, but baby steps), so perhaps such a club really could play at a half-decent level one day.

We're decades away from any possibility of an LMVSC climbing the ladder to D2 or so -- the AFC Wimbledons of the world are rare and built on the ashes of a previous club, and the Hoffenheims of the world require a zillionaire investor who, in the U.S. model, would simply buy up a ton of real estate, build his own stadium, and join MLS -- but I don't see any reason why some enterprising people can't create a league with a good Arlington-Christos rivalry.

It costs more than $150 million to buy your way into the MLS, and even then only if you kiss Don Garber's ring, and you're a better ring kisser than all the others trying to kiss his ring.

It would cost a lot less to invest in a lower division club in the US, but why? No matter how well you do, you still can't move to a higher division without that $150mn and ring kissing. So why spend the money in the first place, and even if you do own a lower division club, how much money are you really going to put into it, with little hope of a ROI no matter how well that money is spent?

And yes, there are North American investors interested in putting their millions into lower division soccer. Michael Eisner: https://variety.com/2017/tv/global/disney-michael-eisner-portsmouth-soccer-1202514705/ Steve Nash: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/01/05/vancouver-whitecaps-part-owner-steve-nash-buys-stake-real-mallorca

And there are others. Imagine if this kind of money were invested here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/american-owners-world-soccer-clubs-football-beyond-premier-league

I agree. Open market is more efficient than closed monopoly or cartel in economic terms. And, frankly, I don't need Deloitte report to tell me which system is superior. The open system is the norm in soccer. Every successful soccer country has an open professional system with promotion/relegation. When a country with a closed pro system wins the world cup (or even becomes a serious contended), I am willing to reconsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcunited.com/post/2018/09/11/dc-united-academy-announce-dmv-pathway-2-pro-program?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter

Soooo, if you're not one of their designated "elite" 5 soccer clubs or you are not a partner club, you're just rec. Some of their partner clubs suck and are completely disorganized.

I hadn't focused on that bottom tier. It does say "rec & feeder teams," but the idea that Potomac or Bethesda are going to feel kids through PPA, or Alexandria is going to feed kids through Arlington, is pretty funny.

The whole thing is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another marketing play or real change?

"Later today the Black-and-Red will officially unveil “DMV Pathway 2 Pro,” a partnership with five Washington metro area youth clubs designed to strengthen and streamline the developmental pyramid by which United aim to nurture the region’s top young talent..."

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/mls/with-new-pathway-2-pro-dc-united-aim-to-raise-the-level-in-dmv/

It's to build up the pipeline for the DC United DA team - having more flexible relationships with potential feeder and other teams esp. while the kids are still younger - and a nice marketing and affinity relationship builder for them and the clubs involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another marketing play or real change?

"Later today the Black-and-Red will officially unveil “DMV Pathway 2 Pro,” a partnership with five Washington metro area youth clubs designed to strengthen and streamline the developmental pyramid by which United aim to nurture the region’s top young talent..."

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/mls/with-new-pathway-2-pro-dc-united-aim-to-raise-the-level-in-dmv/

It's to build up the pipeline for the DC United DA team - having more flexible relationships with potential feeder and other teams esp. while the kids are still younger - and a nice marketing and affinity relationship builder for them and the clubs involved.

It's just making it more closed. I saw the Travel Club DA video in the other thread and if we are limiting ourselves to those players, this whole thing closes the player pool even more and we are leaving out a huge swath of players that have better soccer iq and skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another marketing play or real change?

"Later today the Black-and-Red will officially unveil “DMV Pathway 2 Pro,” a partnership with five Washington metro area youth clubs designed to strengthen and streamline the developmental pyramid by which United aim to nurture the region’s top young talent..."

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/mls/with-new-pathway-2-pro-dc-united-aim-to-raise-the-level-in-dmv/

It's to build up the pipeline for the DC United DA team - having more flexible relationships with potential feeder and other teams esp. while the kids are still younger - and a nice marketing and affinity relationship builder for them and the clubs involved.

It's just making it more closed. I saw the Travel Club DA video in the other thread and if we are limiting ourselves to those players, this whole thing closes the player pool even more and we are leaving out a huge swath of players that have better soccer iq and skill.

This initiative isn't going to make anything more closed. As others have pointed out, DCU and other DAs are still going to take the best players they can get their hands on, regardless of where they come from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another marketing play or real change?

"Later today the Black-and-Red will officially unveil “DMV Pathway 2 Pro,” a partnership with five Washington metro area youth clubs designed to strengthen and streamline the developmental pyramid by which United aim to nurture the region’s top young talent..."

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/mls/with-new-pathway-2-pro-dc-united-aim-to-raise-the-level-in-dmv/

It's to build up the pipeline for the DC United DA team - having more flexible relationships with potential feeder and other teams esp. while the kids are still younger - and a nice marketing and affinity relationship builder for them and the clubs involved.

It's just making it more closed. I saw the Travel Club DA video in the other thread and if we are limiting ourselves to those players, this whole thing closes the player pool even more and we are leaving out a huge swath of players that have better soccer iq and skill.

This initiative isn't going to make anything more closed. As others have pointed out, DCU and other DAs are still going to take the best players they can get their hands on, regardless of where they come from.

It's the 'come to'. There are some outstanding non-DA teams all over VA/MD. They should be looking at kids from there. It's our system that only looks at a very small percentage of kids in the area. The best is not in that video, yet now they are limiting the pool to what is coming over to them when much better is all over. It's backwards. It leads back to the whole US scouting thing with USSF and how it is unfunded and very few at all. Our system needs a MAJOR overhaul or we can just continue to be happy with losing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another marketing play or real change?

"Later today the Black-and-Red will officially unveil “DMV Pathway 2 Pro,” a partnership with five Washington metro area youth clubs designed to strengthen and streamline the developmental pyramid by which United aim to nurture the region’s top young talent..."

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/mls/with-new-pathway-2-pro-dc-united-aim-to-raise-the-level-in-dmv/

It's to build up the pipeline for the DC United DA team - having more flexible relationships with potential feeder and other teams esp. while the kids are still younger - and a nice marketing and affinity relationship builder for them and the clubs involved.

It's just making it more closed. I saw the Travel Club DA video in the other thread and if we are limiting ourselves to those players, this whole thing closes the player pool even more and we are leaving out a huge swath of players that have better soccer iq and skill.

This initiative isn't going to make anything more closed. As others have pointed out, DCU and other DAs are still going to take the best players they can get their hands on, regardless of where they come from.

It's the 'come to'. There are some outstanding non-DA teams all over VA/MD. They should be looking at kids from there. It's our system that only looks at a very small percentage of kids in the area. The best is not in that video, yet now they are limiting the pool to what is coming over to them when much better is all over. It's backwards. It leads back to the whole US scouting thing with USSF and how it is unfunded and very few at all. Our system needs a MAJOR overhaul or we can just continue to be happy with losing.

US scouts are totally worthless that's why you see kids that they think are 'the best' look shockingly mediocre to bad when a Euro scout looks at the same player pool. I am not so sure having more of those guys would do that much.

[Anonymous]

You have to start making changes at the top of the federation and work your way down. Simply adding more scouts handpicked by the current establishment won't solve the problem.