The future of the Catholic Church

[Anonymous]

I realize that the OP is justifably wounded by her experience of Catholicism. The millions of other people who have similiar pain represent a profound failure of the Catholic Church. I acknowledge that failure - I am so sorry - and I continue to follow Christ through the Catholic tradition. The following encompasses most of the reasons why I am Catholic and what I hope defines the future of the Catholic Church:

Catholic Teaching on the Life and Dignity of the Human Person:
Every human person is created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, each person’s life and dignity must be respected, whether that person is an innocent unborn child in a mother’s womb, whether that person worked in the World Trade Center or a market in Baghdad, or even whether that person is a convicted criminal on death row. We believe that every human life is sacred from conception to natural death, that people are more important than things, and that the measure of every institution is whether it protects and respects the life and dignity of the human person. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

Catholic Teaching on the Call to Family, Community, and Participation:
The human person is not only sacred, but social. The God-given institutions of marriage— a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman—and family are central and serve as the foundations for social life. Marriage and family should be supported and strengthened, not undermined. Every person has a right to participate in social, economic, and political life and a corresponding duty to work for the advancement of the common good and the well-being of all, especially the poor and weak. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

Catholic Teaching on Solidarity:
We are one human family. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Pope John Paul II insists, “We are all really responsible for all.” Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that “if you want peace, work for justice.” The Gospel calls us to be “peacemakers.” Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we be “sentinels of peace” in a world wounded by violence and conflict. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

Catholic Teaching on the Dignity of Work:
The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God’s act of creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers, owners, and others must be respected—the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to organize and choose to join a union, to economic initiative, and to ownership and private property. These rights must be exercised in ways that advance the common good. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

Catholic Teaching on Rights and Responsibilities:
Every person has a fundamental right to life— the right that makes all other rights possible. Each person also has a right to the conditions for living a decent life—faith and family life, food and shelter, education and employment, health care and housing. We also have a duty to secure and respect these rights not only for ourselves, but for others, and to fulfill our responsibilities to our families, to each other, and to the larger society. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 14

Catholic Teaching on the Option for the Poor and Vulnerable:
Scripture teaches that God has a special concern for the poor and vulnerable. The Church calls on all of us to embrace this preferential option for the poor and vulnerable, to embody it in our lives, and to work to have it shape public policies and priorities. A fundamental measure of our society is how we care for and stand with the poor and vulnerable. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15


Catholic Teaching on Caring for God’s Creation:
The world that God created has been entrusted to us. Our use of it must be directed by God’s plan for creation, not simply for our own benefit. Our stewardship of the Earth is a form of participation in God’s act of creating and sustaining the world. In our use of creation, we must be guided by a concern for generations to come. We show our respect for the Creator by our care for creation. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize that the OP is justifably wounded by her experience of Catholicism. The millions of other people who have similiar pain represent a profound failure of the Catholic Church. I acknowledge that failure - I am so sorry - and I continue to follow Christ through the Catholic tradition. The following encompasses most of the reasons why I am Catholic and what I hope defines the future of the Catholic Church:

Catholic Teaching on the Life and Dignity of the Human Person:
Every human person is created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, each person’s life and dignity must be respected, whether that person is an innocent unborn child in a mother’s womb, whether that person worked in the World Trade Center or a market in Baghdad, or even whether that person is a convicted criminal on death row. We believe that every human life is sacred from conception to natural death, that people are more important than things, and that the measure of every institution is whether it protects and respects the life and dignity of the human person. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

Catholic Teaching on the Call to Family, Community, and Participation:
The human person is not only sacred, but social. The God-given institutions of marriage— a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman—and family are central and serve as the foundations for social life. Marriage and family should be supported and strengthened, not undermined. Every person has a right to participate in social, economic, and political life and a corresponding duty to work for the advancement of the common good and the well-being of all, especially the poor and weak. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

Catholic Teaching on Solidarity:
We are one human family. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Pope John Paul II insists, “We are all really responsible for all.” Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that “if you want peace, work for justice.” The Gospel calls us to be “peacemakers.” Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we be “sentinels of peace” in a world wounded by violence and conflict. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

Catholic Teaching on the Dignity of Work:
The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God’s act of creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers, owners, and others must be respected—the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to organize and choose to join a union, to economic initiative, and to ownership and private property. These rights must be exercised in ways that advance the common good. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

Catholic Teaching on Rights and Responsibilities:
Every person has a fundamental right to life— the right that makes all other rights possible. Each person also has a right to the conditions for living a decent life—faith and family life, food and shelter, education and employment, health care and housing. We also have a duty to secure and respect these rights not only for ourselves, but for others, and to fulfill our responsibilities to our families, to each other, and to the larger society. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 14

Catholic Teaching on the Option for the Poor and Vulnerable:
Scripture teaches that God has a special concern for the poor and vulnerable. The Church calls on all of us to embrace this preferential option for the poor and vulnerable, to embody it in our lives, and to work to have it shape public policies and priorities. A fundamental measure of our society is how we care for and stand with the poor and vulnerable. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15


Catholic Teaching on Caring for God’s Creation:
The world that God created has been entrusted to us. Our use of it must be directed by God’s plan for creation, not simply for our own benefit. Our stewardship of the Earth is a form of participation in God’s act of creating and sustaining the world. In our use of creation, we must be guided by a concern for generations to come. We show our respect for the Creator by our care for creation. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

Your post is helpful and kind. The Catholic Teachings you share are very nice sounding ideals. But they are rather vague, wouldn't you agree? They say a lot of nice things about the dignity of life... the institution of marriage. But they don't address the points raised elsewhere in this thread, regarding for example, homosexuality or birth control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh dear. Jewish mom here. I am a bitter, judgmental person about just about everything else, but religion and, to some extent, politics are matters of personal conscience to me. I think it's completely inappropriate to bash some one else's religion, even anonymously. Seriously-- what does it give you to do this? You don't like Catholic doctrine, don't be Catholic. That's where it needs to end.

The original post was about OP's concerns about the growth of Catholicism and the political impact that might have, i.e. increasing conservativism. I think the OP'sstatements about being vehemently anti-Catholic were more full disclosure than a "bashing".

[Anonymous]

If there are Catholics out there or others interested in some of the forgotten or ignored social teachings of the Catholic Church, look into the Just Faith program. It will clarify a lot about core Catholic values, which I hope will one day become the true foundation of the Church. I know this is what shapes my Catholic faith for me and the way I try to live my life. There are several more progressive-minded Catholic churches in our area that offer the program, which I highly recommend. We even read a book about Gandhi when I took it so it is very global in perspective and open-minded.

www.justfaith.org


Mission Statement

JustFaith Ministries aspires to enable people of faith to develop a passion for justice, to express this passion in concrete acts of social ministry, and to expand the work of social ministry in their faith communities. JustFaith Ministries creates and supports faith formation processes and resources that emphasize the Gospel message of peace and justice, theological reflection, Church social teaching and the intersection of spirituality and action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what if the OP said:

I am vehemently anti-jewish, and one of several posters who have taken issue with jewish policies and the jewish faith.

bigot.

I think there is a subtle difference. If one says they are "vehemently anti-jewish", that can be interpreted to refer to more than just the jewish dogma. It can refer to individuals of jewish descent.

I am opposed Catholic dogma and teachings, for example those that condemn poor women to be endlessly bearing children, reject homosexuals, etc. I am not a hater of Catholic human beings. It's their beliefs and the application of those beliefs to society as a whole that concern me. I think you know that but you are intentionally ignoring the point.

Also, even in our PC society today, aren't individuals who BELONG to an ethnic group for example, usually given a pass to criticize that group? Like Bill Cosby's criticism of the behavior of some black people?

As someone who spent 20 years being tortured by Catholicism, I feel I've earned my right to bitch.

- OP

Unlike Bill Cosby who can't stop being Black, you have stopped being Catholic. I can't even believe you thought that was a great analogy to make.

You don't agree with the teaching of the Church. Fine. But get your facts straight, will ya.
The church doesn't condemn poor women to endlessly bear children, when you go to for premarital classes you receive information on how to use natural family planning. If you choose to have your tubes tied, guess what? The church doesn't do inquiries or inspections of your reproductive organs.

The Catholic Church is one of the few Christian Churches that don't reject gays and have said that being gay is not a sin.

have never been to a mass where they have polled the congregation on reproductive rights. In fact, everyone I know who has had an abortion is actually Catholic, and they still go to Mass, none of them have been excommunicated.

I am so sick of people like you on this board who think that it's OK to start topics about how they HATE Catholics. Great you spent 20 years "tortured" that doesn't mean everyone raised in the Church is nor does it give you the right to tell others that their beliefs are not OK.

I think you need to just shut the fuck up and keep your opinions to yourself. Especially since your examples about what you think is wrong with the Catholic Church weren't even accurate.

Thank you and well said!

16:42 has GOT to be a sock puppet.

Guess again.

100% agree with both of these

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:amazing the amount of falsehoods about Catholicism that people are spreading. I suggest the fools here go talk to a priest instead of jumping to assumptions and simply making things up. Having an abortion does not send one straight to hell. Neither does having your tubes tied. There are zillions of sins committed every day as we are all sinners. It is what happens afterwards that is important.

I can tell you a priest in Arlington Diocese DID say what you are claiming are not a Catholic teachings/beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:amazing the amount of falsehoods about Catholicism that people are spreading. I suggest the fools here go talk to a priest instead of jumping to assumptions and simply making things up. Having an abortion does not send one straight to hell. Neither does having your tubes tied. There are zillions of sins committed every day as we are all sinners. It is what happens afterwards that is important.

I can tell you a priest in Arlington Diocese DID say what you are claiming are not a Catholic teachings/beliefs.

What, did you ask him like, today? About this thread?

[Anonymous]

DCUM Moron Bigot: Father Arlington, if I have an abortion do I go straight to hell?

Father Arlington: Yes. Do not pass Go and do not collect $200 either.


wow, she was right!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what if the OP said:

I am vehemently anti-jewish, and one of several posters who have taken issue with jewish policies and the jewish faith.

bigot.

I'm as Catholic as you for certain, and I think you diminish the term by using it in this way. It is not bigotry to disagree with ideas or beliefs, even those of the Church. We are to respect those with different ideas.

Maybe you should review your catechism, specifically Chapter 2, Art 3, Sec 1 1933.

[Anonymous]

anybody who is admitting to be "vehemently anti-" anything is bigoted and unreasonable. how absurd to be so hateful and intolerant. Be whatever you want, believe whatever you want. why obsess over someone's else religion? can't fathom it.

[Anonymous]

Natural family planning? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously suggesting that the rhythym method is an effective birth control option?

You are speaking completely out of ignorance. No, the rhythym method is not effective at preventing pregnancy. Natural Family Planning is not the rhythym method. Yes, Natural Family Planning is not only effective at preventing pregnancy, it is also a beautiful, bonding, and healthy addition to most relationships.


It is clear you do not actually know anyone who practices NFP. I *personally* know about 20 families who very happily and faithfully use it, and they all have exactly as many children as they would like to have.

Yes, I think modern NFP could be taught to rural Mexicans or any other group of people in the world who you might think are too uncivilized to learn it. In fact, teaching it and encouraging families to use it could help overcome some of the very cultural problems that you alluded to in your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Natural family planning? Are you kidding me? Are you seriously suggesting that the rhythym method is an effective birth control option?

You are speaking completely out of ignorance. No, the rhythym method is not effective at preventing pregnancy. Natural Family Planning is not the rhythym method. Yes, Natural Family Planning is not only effective at preventing pregnancy, it is also a beautiful, bonding, and healthy addition to most relationships.


It is clear you do not actually know anyone who practices NFP. I *personally* know about 20 families who very happily and faithfully use it, and they all have exactly as many children as they would like to have.

Yes, I think modern NFP could be taught to rural Mexicans or any other group of people in the world who you might think are too uncivilized to learn it. In fact, teaching it and encouraging families to use it could help overcome some of the very cultural problems that you alluded to in your post.

I know all about cervical mucus and temperature taking, thank you. And I have a college educated friend with THREE kids she conceived while using NFP to avoid pregnancy.

Even proponenets of NFP admit it has up to a 9% failure rate per year when used correctly.

http://www.irh.org/nfp.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anybody who is admitting to be "vehemently anti-" anything is bigoted and unreasonable. how absurd to be so hateful and intolerant. Be whatever you want, believe whatever you want. why obsess over someone's else religion? can't fathom it.

Well, OP was raised Catholic. So it's not just a matter of her commenting on someone else's religion. She is reflecting on her experience growing up Catholic. Even we Catholics can agree that the Church has done some damage to people over the years. Right? Some people should be bitter about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think it behooves a Catholic to think twice before trying to draw analogies to being persecuted like Jews (which is not to say there hasn't been prejudice against catholics, or that prejudice against catholics is okay).

and why is that? that may be the dumbest thing I've seen here yet. Only certain groups can be victimized and prejudiced against, and others cannot?

Well, for one it is a pretty meaningless technicality to say that the Church accepts gays but considers gay sex a mortal sin. By that measure, the Church accepts pedophiles and ax-murderers, as long as they don't molest or murder with axes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anybody who is admitting to be "vehemently anti-" anything is bigoted and unreasonable. how absurd to be so hateful and intolerant. Be whatever you want, believe whatever you want. why obsess over someone's else religion? can't fathom it.

Well, OP was raised Catholic. So it's not just a matter of her commenting on someone else's religion. She is reflecting on her experience growing up Catholic. Even we Catholics can agree that the Church has done some damage to people over the years. Right? Some people should be bitter about it.

and be so obsessed about it that she shares her views constantly on anonymous message boards? If I started a jew-bashing thread or a mormon-bashing thread every few days people would rightly assume I was intolerant (and/or obsessed). It is hateful, and more importantly, ridiculous. I'm guessing you are the OP.