What is a D&C??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!!!!

I'm pro-choice, but this is putting words in other peoples' mouths. It's like a christian telling people there are no atheists in foxholes. Even if it is true that many would choose to have an abortion, they may still believe that it is wrong and even that it should be illegal. I know someone in this exact position. She had a teen abortion and now she gives money to so-called pro-life organizations. Why? She believes that what she did was very wrong.

And perhaps you remember the "silent majority" conjured up by Richard Nixon to claim the existence of a group of people who, in their heart of hearts, really did believe in the war in Vietnam but would never say so in a poll or speak up in a public setting. And plenty of dictators have claimed to know the true will of their people, dismissing dissent as a fringe element despite evidence to the contrary.

In other words, it is dangerous to invalidate the stated beliefs of people, even if they seem uneducated, not thoughtful, or even full of contradictions. We have to take them at their word.

This is not a phenomenon of the pro-choice movement. You may note in an earlier post that an abortion opponent truly believes the majority is against abortion except for rape and incest. I am sure she is convinced of that as this crowd is that the people are really pro-choice at heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap!!!!

I'm pro-choice, but this is putting words in other peoples' mouths. It's like a christian telling people there are no atheists in foxholes. Even if it is true that many would choose to have an abortion, they may still believe that it is wrong and even that it should be illegal. I know someone in this exact position. She had a teen abortion and now she gives money to so-called pro-life organizations. Why? She believes that what she did was very wrong.

And perhaps you remember the "silent majority" conjured up by Richard Nixon to claim the existence of a group of people who, in their heart of hearts, really did believe in the war in Vietnam but would never say so in a poll or speak up in a public setting. And plenty of dictators have claimed to know the true will of their people, dismissing dissent as a fringe element despite evidence to the contrary.

In other words, it is dangerous to invalidate the stated beliefs of people, even if they seem uneducated, not thoughtful, or even full of contradictions. We have to take them at their word.

This is not a phenomenon of the pro-choice movement. You may note in an earlier post that an abortion opponent truly believes the majority is against abortion except for rape and incest. I am sure she is convinced of that as this crowd is that the people are really pro-choice at heart.

I was not suggesting these people are pro-choice at heart. To the contrary, I believe that these people - who call themselves "pro-life" but really aren't - are gigantic hypocrites. They are completely anti-choice for everyone else - but query whether they'd vacillate on these simplistic views if faced with the situation themselves. It's the old adage of "don't judge until you've walked in that person's shoes." Or in this case, keep your own personal views to yourself and feel free to live according to those views, but don't push those views on someone else and force that person to live by your code unless you are prepared - as I said above - to step up and take in those unwanted children. Because as it stands now, many of these kids spend their lives in foster care and then get a one-way ticket to state prison. "Pro-life" indeed.

[Anonymous]

yeah, i'd much rather be murdered than be in a foster home! no good can ever come of a life that started in unfortunate surroundings. good point PP! I'm sure all of those in foster homes would volunteer to be aborted even today ...

[Anonymous]

It's pathetic that a woman can't ask for an explanation of one of the most common gynecological procedures without bringing out the anti-abortion mafia. This is absolutely head-shakingly ludicrous that OP didn't simply get an answer to her question in one or two responses, and then this thread close down and be forgotten, forever.

A D & C does not equal an abortion.

[Anonymous]

I had two friends, both vehement pro-lifers, with the bumper stickers and marches and everything and BOTH of whom, when pregnant out of wedlock, chose abortion. One of them now says "it was a mistake" and is again pro-life. Uh huh. She was against abortion being legal BEFORE she wanted it, and she was against it AFTER she wanted it. She just took advantage of the fact it was legal, when SHE needed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you had a miscarriage then a D&C is not an abortion, my apologies. But over half of the country is now pro-life, and obviously this is a subject where feelings run high, so no surprise reactions will be pretty varied and drastic. personally i am very anti-abortion.

It is actually currently a statistical tie. But before we start getting emotional about numbers, here is the best data:

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/549.pdf

depends on the polling, but also I'd note that Pew asks "illegal in ALL cases". if you carve out incest and rape then the pro-life position is much higher than 50%. Good link though.

No, they actually are reporting "Most or All" at slightly above 50%, which is meant to include the people who carve out rape and incest. There are also many "pro-choice" people who feel that there are certain limited situations in which abortion should be illegal (for instance, some disagree with late term). So "Most or All" in pro-choice is not a pure vote, either.

If you take another poll, from Gallop, you can clearly see how only a minority are absolute on either side: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx

In this poll, only 23% of people believe abortion should be illegal in all cases. And 22% of the population believes abortion should be legal in all cases. The in between space is a mix 53% of people who want a rape/incest exclusion, or those who want general legality but some limited circumstances outlawed (late term for example). It is the ambiguity of the huge middle ground that causes Pew to ask "illegal in most or all" or "illegal in most or all" cases.

Both pro-life and pro-choice groups hae really politicized the numbers, but the research shows that the population falls on a spectrum (which is best highlighted by the Gallup data). And if you ask them to show which way they are leaning (the intent of the Pew survey) they are statistically split down the middle.

This complexity is unwanted by the organizations on either side, but yet it exists.

So 50% of the nation does not believe in the woman's right to chose? I do not believe that one bit. Until EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY can be polled I do not think 50% of the nation is pro life, no way, no how.

Disbelieving polls simply because you disagree with the result does not make sense. Your argument is only credible if you can point to errors in the sampling or the questions. But so many polls on the subject are done, it is hard to invalidate them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you had a miscarriage then a D&C is not an abortion, my apologies. But over half of the country is now pro-life, and obviously this is a subject where feelings run high, so no surprise reactions will be pretty varied and drastic. personally i am very anti-abortion.

It is actually currently a statistical tie. But before we start getting emotional about numbers, here is the best data:

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/549.pdf

depends on the polling, but also I'd note that Pew asks "illegal in ALL cases". if you carve out incest and rape then the pro-life position is much higher than 50%. Good link though.

No, they actually are reporting "Most or All" at slightly above 50%, which is meant to include the people who carve out rape and incest. There are also many "pro-choice" people who feel that there are certain limited situations in which abortion should be illegal (for instance, some disagree with late term). So "Most or All" in pro-choice is not a pure vote, either.

If you take another poll, from Gallop, you can clearly see how only a minority are absolute on either side: http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx

In this poll, only 23% of people believe abortion should be illegal in all cases. And 22% of the population believes abortion should be legal in all cases. The in between space is a mix 53% of people who want a rape/incest exclusion, or those who want general legality but some limited circumstances outlawed (late term for example). It is the ambiguity of the huge middle ground that causes Pew to ask "illegal in most or all" or "illegal in most or all" cases.

Both pro-life and pro-choice groups hae really politicized the numbers, but the research shows that the population falls on a spectrum (which is best highlighted by the Gallup data). And if you ask them to show which way they are leaning (the intent of the Pew survey) they are statistically split down the middle.

This complexity is unwanted by the organizations on either side, but yet it exists.

So 50% of the nation does not believe in the woman's right to chose? I do not believe that one bit. Until EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS COUNTRY can be polled I do not think 50% of the nation is pro life, no way, no how.

Disbelieving polls simply because you disagree with the result does not make sense. Your argument is only credible if you can point to errors in the sampling or the questions. But so many polls on the subject are done, it is hard to invalidate them all.

It's just a poll, of a sampling of people. How do you know who they sampled or where? I still firmly disagree most of the nation is pro choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

Yep - lots of unwanted babies out there, growing up to horrible lives of misery, violence and crime. Not all women who abort who are 34 year old Ivy league educated career women who forget to take the pill. The issue is complex and warrants more discussion than throwing the word "baby murderer" on an anonymous forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

Yep - lots of unwanted babies out there, growing up to horrible lives of misery, violence and crime. Not all women who abort who are 34 year old Ivy league educated career women who forget to take the pill. The issue is complex and warrants more discussion than throwing the word "baby murderer" on an anonymous forum.

hah, again - how does this argument "horrible lives of misery, violence and crime" possibly make sense? those people would choose death over life? over not ever living? what a complete egotistical view of the world that you can decide whose lives are worth living and whose lives are not. so ivy league educated women are ok to have babies, but the rest of the babies should be murdered?

if you really think that little heartbeat beating inside you is a separate life (and as you see premature babies getting viable earlier and earlier), then of course you will do pretty much whatever you can to lawfully stop as many abortions as possible. can the anti-baby crowd at least acknowledge that the pro-life crowd makes logical sense if you see fetuses as separate living human beings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send pollsters to people's houses 20 minutes after they learn that their 16-year-old daughter is pregnant. Suddenly everyone is pro choice.

Push comes to shove, in focus groups and one-to-one interviews even some of the most ardent opponents of choice admit that they would take their daughter for an abortion rather than deal with the social stigma and hardship.

That's exactly what I was thinking and was also about to post; "I'm all for outlawing women's choice until it's my 15 year old daughter; then I want her to have the choice!" Anyway, I'd be all for outlawing abortion (and forbidding us women the ability to choose for ourselves) if each of you moronic "pro-lifers" agrees to adopt all the children resulting from the outlawed abortions. No? Not interested? Then shut your pie holes, pro-lifers. And I'll add, I'm a Republican.

Yep - lots of unwanted babies out there, growing up to horrible lives of misery, violence and crime. Not all women who abort who are 34 year old Ivy league educated career women who forget to take the pill. The issue is complex and warrants more discussion than throwing the word "baby murderer" on an anonymous forum.

hah, again - how does this argument "horrible lives of misery, violence and crime" possibly make sense? those people would choose death over life? over not ever living? what a complete egotistical view of the world that you can decide whose lives are worth living and whose lives are not. so ivy league educated women are ok to have babies, but the rest of the babies should be murdered?

if you really think that little heartbeat beating inside you is a separate life (and as you see premature babies getting viable earlier and earlier), then of course you will do pretty much whatever you can to lawfully stop as many abortions as possible. can the anti-baby crowd at least acknowledge that the pro-life crowd makes logical sense if you see fetuses as separate living human beings?

What doesn't make sense is you hashing this out on a thread where the OP just had a miscarriage and was asking for information about a medical procedure. Don't you think there's enough pain and hurt here without you gunning for a fight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

if you really think that little heartbeat beating inside you is a separate life (and as you see premature babies getting viable earlier and earlier), then of course you will do pretty much whatever you can to lawfully stop as many abortions as possible. can the anti-baby crowd at least acknowledge that the pro-life crowd makes logical sense if you see fetuses as separate living human beings?

Really? Anti-baby crowd? That's a new one for me.

I am definitely pro-choice (from a legal perspective - doesn't mean I think all abortions are 'right', just that I think they should be legal). While I will admit that the position held by some in the anti-choice crowd is logical based on their underlying assumptions, I can't support their position because I don't agree with the premise on which their arguments are based.

I also can't believe a simple question about a D&C turned into a discussion of abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also can't believe a simple question about a D&C turned into a discussion of abortion.

I can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pretty much when you murder your baby.

Go to hell.

What about those of us who had miscarriages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:pretty much when you murder your baby.

You're an ahole. My fetus was dead at 11 weeks so I had to get a D & C to get it out.