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Why aren't republicans funny?
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Anonymous
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ok. I think that is pretty cool and really need to get to Africa before I am too old to enjoy it. I digress. assuming those photos are typical, then what if a political cartoonist for some reason (and I cant think of the context now) dressed Obama in those ancestral type costumes and makeup in order to make a point? be similar to if we had a 2nd generation italian american as pusa and someone dressed him in a toga, for example. you know everyone would scream racism, and i find that unfortunate.
as for limbaugh, again, if he was that much of a complete diehard racist then i think we would have more on him (after 100,000s of hours on the radio) then those few offensive but hardly blatant racist comments. i don't like limbuaugh. personally i'm much more of an american spectator type conservative than a hannity/limbaugh type, but it does extremely bother me when people automatically equate conservatism with racism. not the case imo. |
Anonymous
As an Italian-American, I can't think of any of us who would consider a toga to be a racist stereotype. If you dressed him as a gangster, it's a pretty objectionable stereotype. The content matters. The artist could have portrayed Obama as a Pharoah and I don't think it would raise the same objections. But this specific tribal imagery has been used to ridicule African Americans for so long, it is now a huge taboo. |
Anonymous
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Kenyan Medicine Man
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/5171/wm/pd1718789.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp%3Fimageid%3D1718789&usg=__m9lnf8xDcmAY8MqUIASeau5c3Ro=&h=600&w=399&sz=82&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=FBiNdqsgmuuptM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkenyan%2Bmedicine%2Bman%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1 All but the bone IMO, and this is what Jeff's picture was discussing - ObamaCare. So tribal imagery cannot be used when cartooning a US President of African descent, yet a US President of European descent is fair game? http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1389434,00.html |
Anonymous
| "Ladies and gentlemen, I, Rush Limbaugh, live in Barack Obama's head, rent free!" |
Anonymous
exactly my points, thank you. so not sure how it is racist when obama IS kenyan. |
Anonymous
Holy, hell, is that what you think all Kenyans look like? THIS is how his father dressed: http://a11news.com/images/barack-obama-father.jpg Do you not see how they chose a stereotypical image of an African, and one that is meant to bring ridicule from Westerners? Do you not see how it would be insulting? Please look up the word stereotype. Even if you think the image is not in itself offensive (maybe you are a cultural anthropologist with a well-formed respect for all cultures) it is NOT what all Kenyans look like. Try telling Asians they are all good at math (a respectable thing) and see how that goes over. |
jsteele
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I guess all black men look the same to you, huh. There is nothing in common between the two pictures. There is not one article of clothing that is the same. And, as far as the bone, that's the entire reason we are having this discussion -- due to the linkage of the expression "bone in the nose" and negative ethnic stereotypes. BTW, the ObamaCare photo was photoshoped from a pictures of a medicine man in Papua New Guinea, which is not even in Africa. So, you will not find anything in it that is African.
Negative ethnic stereotypes should never be used, regardless of the ethnicity. As for the picture to which you link, I am not even sure what president that might be. I'm not sure it is even supposed to be a president. When was the last time we had a white-haired president? But, are you suggesting the opposite, that's it's ok to use negative stereotypes of Africans but not Europeans? |
Anonymous
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point is, people are too thin skinned and all politicians are setting themselves up for ridicule and have to expect it. if we truly are going to have an equal society, then we can't be afraid to poke fun at black politicians the same way we poke fun of everyone else.
as for the horrible poster - if the witchdoctor that was the basis for the photo is not even african, then obviously its not racist. the photo clearly is making fun of Obama for poking around trying to change healthcare. i.e., being a crazy witchdoctor. and duh, obviously all kenyans don't look alike. that is why you use a far-out exotic image when you do political cartooning. |
Anonymous
Nice try, but not hardly. I think it is absurd to cry foul when Obama is charactured as a witch doctor in a criticism of ObamaCare and condone another president, Bush (2nd nice try), being charactured as a stupid ape. While you probably agree with the latter, the former offends you. I too find negative ethnic stereotypes offensive, but I defend the right of cartoonists and political protesters of all stripes to use them (perhaps at their peril) in free speech. While we are at it, I also find charactures of Christianity, leaders as barnyard animals, leaders who got stuck way back on Darwin's evolutionary scale, etc. offensive. I would argue that this too is protected speech, as much as I might personally be offended. I am emphatically stating that we ought not have one set of rules when dealing with African Americans and a different set of rules for the rest of the ethnic stew that makes up America. For what it is worth, Limbaugh's bone in the nose comment was made in the early 1970's - almost 40 years ago. He was 20 - 25 years old. Quite the stretch we are making to 1) show racist intent and 2) link it to Obama. He makes his living being provocative and has at a minimum 3 hours a day for 20 years worth of monologues on the record, and this is the best you can do? Unimpressed. Also, not amused, which just goes to show that both Republicans and Democrats and be "not funny." |
jsteele
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You are consistently ignoring my point that the reason I posted the ObamaCare photo was to show evidence that "bone in the nose" is a negative stereotype of Africans. Remember, you said that it reminded you of cavemen. Beyond that, there are all kinds of ways to make fun of Obama that do not necessitate the use of negative ethnic stereotypes. The one thing that you have failed to acknowledge is that there is a host of negative imagery that is used to marginalize others. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you wouldn't caricature a Jewish politician by showing him with a huge nose and a purse of gold coins. Is that because no Jew has ever had a big nose or ever been wealthy? No, it's because such imagery reinforces ethnic stereotypes. How would you react if every politician of Italian descent was shown as being a mafia don? Or those of German origin being portrayed as Nazis? What if every politician from the South was always portrayed as a toothless redneck drinking moonshine and telling other men to squeal like a pig while he raped them? Whoever chose the picture used for the ObamaCare photo likely had no idea where the photo was from or where Papua New Guinea is located. It was chosen because it reinforced negative ethnic stereotypes, one of which is that Kenyans have bones in their noses. |
jsteele
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Bullshit. You are arguing with strawmen. I didn't condone Bush being caricatured as a stupid ape. Bush does not have white hair and looks nothing like the cartoon. Also, what ethnic stereotype does a stupid ape represent?
Again, strawmen. Describing something as a negative ethnic stereotype and saying the use of such images is a sign of racism does not mean that the speech is not protected. You are free to use negative stereotypes and I am free to call you a racist for doing so. That's freedom of speech for both of us.
And, for the third time, strawmen. I am not the one who brought up the quote. My only comment about it in relation to Limbaugh was that there was not enough context to evaluate it. My point is that the images of a bone in the nose is strongly linked to negative stereotypes of Africans as evidenced by the ObamaCare photo. I never linked Limbaugh's quote to Obama, just the expression about a bone in the nose which the other poster thought referred to cavemen. As for Limbaugh, the problem I have with him is not that it utters clearly racist sayings. For instance, he doesn't just get up and call someone the "N" word. The problem is repeated placing of things in a racial context to the detriment of non-whites. When a kid on a bus got beat up, Limbaugh blamed it on Obama. Why? Because the bully and Obama are both black. When Donovan McNabb was having success, Rush said the media was only promoting him because he is black. Limbaugh said that Democrats want us out of Iraq and into Darfur because the people in Darfur are black and Democrats need black votes. He does this repeatedly, all the while saying he is colorblind. |
Anonymous
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Next someone is going to tell us that blackface is not racist because blacks have lots of melanin.
I don't know whether these posters are genuinely unaware, or whether they are being disingenuous. The latter is annoying, but the former would be really frightening. If you truly don't get it, maybe you should employ a simple test. Print out a particular caricature, bring it in to work and put it in front of a bunch of black co-workers. If you get this twinge before showing it that it's a bad idea, you know what you are holding in your hand. If that twinge never comes, well at least you will be having a nice long talk with HR and they can get you some help. |
Anonymous
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Every message is really two messages: what is sent and what is received. The sender and the receiver may disagree, but neither should disregard the other. If a message is perceived as racist, the sender should accept that this perception exists. But if the intent was not racist, the receiver should also accept this as real.
If this is received as pedantic and condescending, I will understand, but I hope you will understand that it was not intended that way. |