Subject Test Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: He is FINE!

SAT Subject test takers are highly selective so do not get hung up on the % tile (ie, kids that are good with English/History but not as high on the STEM subjects probably would not take Math II kind of selective). Just FYI my DC got 800 on one of the SAT Subject and that put him at 80th%.

Anything over 700 looks fine ... and honestly, with all the schools requiring SAT/ACT, I don't think improvement in 20-50 points is going to tip the scale one way or another. Had he gotten below 680 it might be a different story. But his scores are fine.

OP ignore the people saying you are humblebragging. You have a right to be concerned about the 710. I'm assuming your DS is applying to schools with an expressed interest in the sciences - hence she took Math II and chemistry. I'll tell you my DD's story and you can extrapolate from it what you want. DD wanted aerospace at Princeton so applied SCEA and for the programs EA at Ga Tech and Purdue. Got into the latter EA and other name tech schools for aerospace engineering. Got deferred at Princeton. Valedictorian of class. 4.0++++ GPA. 35 ACT. National awards. We got bum advice about the SAT subject matter tests so DD took Math I and Chemistry. DD also took a college course in chemistry at a community college the summer before and got an A. Also private tutoring for the chemistry subject matter test. If I remember correctly she scored a 730 or 740 on the Math I and the chemistry test. She went back (her own volition) and took the Math II test and chemistry again. We were told by a number of tutors that the chemistry exam covers an enormous quantity of information so even the college level course on chem wouldn't necessarily help with the chem score because the field is so vast. On retake, she was still in the 740s/750s. She did not get into Princeton. Contrary to what others will scream at you, if you have a friend on the faculty who is going to bat for your kid you can find out what the problem is with the application (other than being caucasian from a boring zip code that they don't need) and her problem was the low SAT II scores. And she's not a URM and doesn't play the xylophone. So yes, 710 is a problem if DD is applying to study in the field at an Ivy. I would send in the 790 and not the 710 if you can do that. [b]By the way, schools that say SAT IIs are not required "but highly recommended" means in real language that you are competing against superlative international candidates with 800s on every conceivable test. The only reason they don't "require" them is because to do so discriminates against the less knowledgeable and poorer applicants. But if you are not a URM, lower income and come from a good public or good private, you need to supply them. Some are posting here that schools are moving towards not requiring test scores. That is not a reflection of what is going on in terms of selecting students in the admissions office - they still want to see top scores - what that movement is about is increasing the number of applicants so that the University can reject them, thereby driving down the selectivity scores for reporting to the ranking services.

+1

This was our experience too.

[Anonymous]

Does he need the subject tests at all? I thought only a very few select schools require them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does he need the subject tests at all? I thought only a very few select schools require them.

Read the full thread - OP's child is applying to a "top 20" school that "strongly recommends" subject tests.

Strongly recommends means "take them" if you are a middle or upper-class student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:P.S. ^^ If DD had to do it all over again, she would not have applied as an aerospace engineer but as a more soft liberal studies major. It's easier to get in that way and then take hard sciences intros and see if it's a good match.

at least where my son landed, that was not a path to the BS that the school accepts.

this also would not work at most of the UCs. If you don't enter as aerospace, you are pretty much SOL.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for your perspective. Just to reiterate, DS will be applying to the liberal arts program and will most likely major in something in math related. He is not applying to a school on the level of Princeton, however, it is a selective school (top 20 on US News list). All his other schools are below that...so not interested in uber selective schools. That's why I think the 790 is fine, but not sure about the 710.

It sounds like it would make just as much sense for him to take literature or history instead of retaking Chem, if he is strong in those areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right. When my ex was applying to Econ PhD programs, no one would look at the application unless you got an 800 on the GRE Math. All the people applying to Econ and math grad programs screwed up the percentiles on that test by getting perfect scores.

Similar situation here.

This. If you want engineering, math or a math heavy STEM subject at a school with <10% admit rate, here is what a 790 math says: your kid is not in the top 25% in math. In this case, more than any other subject test, there is a huge difference between 790 and 800. That is not a reason to accept your kid, for sure. It may be a reason to turn him down. Even if it is a self selecting group, it’s not that self selecting. Top 50 school— sure. Send it. Humanities major? Probably fine. But an Ivy, Chicago, Cal Tech, MIT etc? If 10,000 kids too the test, there are more than 2000 800s out there. It’s worth the time this summer to work through a practice book and aim for the 800 in August or October.

BTDT at TJ, where all the math geeks live. Rule of thumb: Math II, only send an 800.

OP here. He is not applying to ivies...but his dream school is a top 20 (obviously closer to 20). Admit rate less than 20% but more than 15%. Is 790 good enough for that type of school? He does not need to declare a major when applying. Not applying for engineering. He will probably retake Chemistry.

. This is an anonymous board, you can name the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There is an August 25th test date for which the regular registration deadline is July 27 and the late registration deadlines are Aug 7 (mail) and Aug 15 (phone) so plenty of time to register. If he wants to go for it and schedule permitting, that's a little over 6 weeks away, and going for higher scores wouldn't interfere with the new school year. Both Math Level 2 and Chemistry are being offered.

note: test center locations for August test are sparse (unless you live in DC).

+1. We are Western Fairfax, and had to register for a test site 45 minutes away out through Loudoun County. No WesternCounty FCPS Hs still had open seats as of three weeks ago. Register now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"If you want engineering, math or a math heavy STEM subject at a school with <10% admit rate, here is what a 790 math says: your kid is not in the top 25% in math. In this case, more than any other subject test, there is a huge difference between 790 and 800. That is not a reason to accept your kid, for sure."

Ahh, no. All it suggests to the school is that the student DID NOT PREP for the SATII.

This is what sooooo many people don't get. If the student has a math competition score or some other proof in their application that shows they are in the top fraction of a percent at doing math, like lots of As in TJ math classes, then getting a 790 SATII and a 780 Math SAT are fine. No one cares how well you can do math on your worst day, they want to know how well you can do math on your best day.

Nope. My kid just got an 800 on the Math II. TJ student with a C+ in Math 4 (ouch) and B in Math 5 (these are semester classes roughly Trig plus pre-Calc). Clearly not a strong/ competition Math kid. Not applying to colleges as a math major or engineer— looking at geosciences at a SLAC. Did a couple of practice tests from the ones released by the College Board as only prep. Said the SAT Math II was super easy. He may not need to submit SAT II scores, but we got the math before he started Calculus to help show that he has a strong math foundation, despite the C+.

More kids take the SAT Math II than any other subject test. By a long shot— 140,000 kids vs 68,000 as the next most taken test (Chemistry). That mean there are more than 28,000 800s out there. It’s a low bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right. When my ex was applying to Econ PhD programs, no one would look at the application unless you got an 800 on the GRE Math. All the people applying to Econ and math grad programs screwed up the percentiles on that test by getting perfect scores.

Similar situation here.

This. If you want engineering, math or a math heavy STEM subject at a school with <10% admit rate, here is what a 790 math says: your kid is not in the top 25% in math. In this case, more than any other subject test, there is a huge difference between 790 and 800. That is not a reason to accept your kid, for sure. It may be a reason to turn him down. Even if it is a self selecting group, it’s not that self selecting. Top 50 school— sure. Send it. Humanities major? Probably fine. But an Ivy, Chicago, Cal Tech, MIT etc? If 10,000 kids too the test, there are more than 2000 800s out there. It’s worth the time this summer to work through a practice book and aim for the 800 in August or October.

BTDT at TJ, where all the math geeks live. Rule of thumb: Math II, only send an 800.

OP here. He is not applying to ivies...but his dream school is a top 20 (obviously closer to 20). Admit rate less than 20% but more than 15%. Is 790 good enough for that type of school? He does not need to declare a major when applying. Not applying for engineering. He will probably retake Chemistry.

. This is an anonymous board, you can name the school.

+1. Definitely name the school.