DH Wants to Incur Educational Debt and We're Almost 40

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he wants to learn programming there are other things he can do besides obtaining a second bachelors- honestly that is a red flag to me that he would even suggest that without doing any research , because if he'd done even the slightest research he would know that's not a good plan.
You may have to do some research and present him with your findings- it's not exactly fair, but he can't figure this out on his own and you need to get him on board with something that won't put you in debt but will still make him feel like he's doing something.

+1 I work in digital marketing, and pretty much none of the web developers (neither front end or back end) I know or work with studied programming. Our CTO is a freaking MFA! And you will think I am lying when I tell you that the last company I work for had a CTO with an MFA but it's true!

You can learn anything about programming with nearly free online courses. I have taught myself many things with Udemy. These courses are about 12 bucks a pop and go very deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone. DH works in IT and he wants to study programming. It would be a night, and I am supportive as long as it does not involve debt. I think you are right that I need to look at cost vs benefit but DH has not given me any specifics on this when asked.

Also, frankly I am drained emotionally from this, and I feel it is largely escapism on his part. He also always brings this up at the most inopportune times. Now it is Mother's Day. The last time we had this discussion he persisted with it over the holidays.

I work in IT at a large consulting company and I don’t see how a BS at age 40 is going to help him compete with 22yr olds or Indian programmers his age with 15+ years experience. Most guys his age in IT are in management or selling projects. There is decent money for developers who work freelance, but you need a lot of experience, contacts and credibility for that. Otherwise it’s not a career with a lot of future earning potential. Why can’t he work towards project management roles?

[Anonymous]

I’m in IT and agree with what everyone else is saying. It’s about having experience coding. I have a liberal arts degree but went into consulting where I had a 6 week boot camp in C++, ending up on a project where I had to teach myself Unix and SQL and moved on to other programming languages. You can take some classes to understand the basic concepts and then it’s up to you get experience and adapt and keep up with the new technology. Also agree about the ageism and salary expectations. It becomes tougher to make career moves in IT as you get older. Also if you are making a good salary in an area where you have 15 years of experience, if you switch focus to one where you are new, you are competing against kids right out of college or experienced coders from overseas that would cost less.

If you had said DH wanted to pursue a nursing degree, that would be different, but a second bachelors and for a field that is more about on the job experience than the degree field, that doesn’t make financial sense to go into debt. Encourage DH to do informational interviews with someone in the field he wants to go into and that has experience interviewing candidates to find out more about the career and what makes a successful match in that field etc. If he looks at classes a Montgomery college etc, find out how students get hands on experience beyond class work.

[Anonymous]

Awwww hail no!! He needs to teach himself - take the open course ware at MIT

[Anonymous]

A friend's DW who is nearing 60 decided to go back for one more Master's degree, so she could "get a better job". Three years and $50,000 later, she is in the same crappy job she had before.

Going back for a BS? Yes, in Nursing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You need to look at numbers, here, OP, not take a stand on principle.

How much money out vs how much money in, and how much retirement and college savings.

My husband refuses to treat his ADHD and has been let go from multiple jobs and has had multiple periods of unemployment. Perhaps your husband has ADHD too. It's very common, and leads to all sorts of issues like these. Going back to school could be a form of escapism when he feels he can't cut it in his real job. If his issues stem from ADHD, meds can definitely help with that.

I hate to say this, OP, but this poster may have some insight. Her description fits my XDH to a T, down to the midlife crisis, ADD-linked escapism and returning to school—my XDH returned to school at age 51, although he says he wants to retire at 56 and our kids are in college. The posters talking about midlife crises and possible ADD may be right, and your DH may just find that he’s unhappy in his new job for many of the reasons he was unhappy before (ADD means he has trouble functioning in many jobs, midlife crisis means he’d really rather see if he can make that guitar/band thing pay off than be tied down to a family). People who are depressed and/or have ADD often think that making major changes—move the family to another state, big career changes—will be the magic pill that makes them happy. But it rarely does.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t support your DH, or that he definitely has depression or ADD. But I think the pps saying he needs to teach himself online are right for a whole host of reasons, including that it’s cheaper and a degree isn’t necessary, but also because he needs to work for this and see it’s real, rather than an escape where he gets it handed to him at a 4-year college. Also, you might suggest he see a psychiatrist to get evaluated for depression/ADD/ADHD. As pp said, meds can really help with all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in IT and agree with what everyone else is saying. It’s about having experience coding. I have a liberal arts degree but went into consulting where I had a 6 week boot camp in C++, ending up on a project where I had to teach myself Unix and SQL and moved on to other programming languages. You can take some classes to understand the basic concepts and then it’s up to you get experience and adapt and keep up with the new technology. Also agree about the ageism and salary expectations. It becomes tougher to make career moves in IT as you get older. Also if you are making a good salary in an area where you have 15 years of experience, if you switch focus to one where you are new, you are competing against kids right out of college or experienced coders from overseas that would cost less.

If you had said DH wanted to pursue a nursing degree, that would be different, but a second bachelors and for a field that is more about on the job experience than the degree field, that doesn’t make financial sense to go into debt. Encourage DH to do informational interviews with someone in the field he wants to go into and that has experience interviewing candidates to find out more about the career and what makes a successful match in that field etc. If he looks at classes a Montgomery college etc, find out how students get hands on experience beyond class work.

This is an accurate post because it differentiates - nursing or maybe accounting makes sense but programming is a different ball game.

[Anonymous]

Almost 40! And still alive! You should be planning your funeral, not kids’ college or your retirement!
Seriously, he will likely work for the next 30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1 that you need to put numbers behind this. Rather than talk about him to DCUM, see if you can work with him to research course options, salary differences, etc.

I'm a big believer that you're never too old to develop yourself professionally. I also 100% believe that you have to have numbers behind those kinds of decisions, otherwise it's just selfish. I'm going back to school full-time this fall, but I did a ton of work on crunching numbers and only allowed myself to go when I got a full ride.

I'm a believer in this economy we will all need to adapt, learn continuously, and find new skills and self-invention. I would take the rigid hardline that OP has taken.

OK, you don't like debt but you sound like you're overly militant about that perspective--and refusing to look at the upside of the new degree is part of the attitude I'm referencing here.

Rather than being so knee-jerk about this I think you want to keep in mind that he's continuing to work full time, and that's a big admission that your collective financial security is important. Maybe you want to ask yourself as a family if there ways to reduce the amount of debt the family absorbs, like selling one car (or buying a used car for less)? Saving less for a few years on retirement savings? Asking him to look into whether any of the classes are eligible for reimbursement from work?

Another thing is that most of us are not going to retire at 60 or even 65. That's an antiquated model. My father lived to 97. Life expectancy is now in its 80s and rising. I have no interest in retiring in my early 60s and funding 20-30 years of retirement. I plan to work until I'm 70, even if I'm working part time for some of that time, so that I'm only funding 15-20 years out of savings...

Agree. Don't go in with a "No edu debt" attitude. If it pans out long term in added income, better mental happiness, why not. 40 is not young, but he will have more than two decades to work. I have a friend who started MEDICAL school at age 42. Seriously. And she prepared for it for 3 years (she had to go back and do college level coursework for the prerequisites and then got a masters in science while prepping for MCAT and buffing up her resume with clinical work) all the while working AND being a mom of elementary school kids. She will still get to practice 15+ years, probably more. But she was already accomplished in another field, she is incredibly driven, and she is used to working super long hours. But OP, it sounds like your husband is not like that and I do realize that he might be doing this as escapism, as he is talking about a B.S. degree instead of being practical about it since the degree itself doesn't automatically get you a programming job. Nevertheless, don't shoot it down on $ reasons before you hear him out and have him do a detailed cost benefit analysis. Starting out with online courses, community college classes sounds great.

[Anonymous]

Forty is not old, especially for advancing an individual’s education.