homework at Holton & NCS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it hard to believe that so many posters say that Ivy colleges were easy compared to HSs. My spouse and I share 4 Ivy degrees and work at each one was a whole new level of difficulty and challenge. Furthermore, we didn't know anyone who felt that Yale, Harvard, Cornell and Dartmouth were a breeze!

Depends on whether you want to do well! You could work round-the-clock (miserably or with great pleasure depending on your personality) and excel (or not) or you could coast and still get Bs. You'd be amazed -- I know I was when I started teaching -- by how many kids in Ivies don't do the reading. Saves a lot of time, LOL!

Nightly homework is a really different system from midterm + final (or term paper) or three short essays. If you're looking to minimize the time you spend on schoolwork, it's much easier with the latter system.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from public HS, public college and 2nd tier public law school - all in state - as did my husband. We both graduated in the top 3-5% of our law school class and are now partners at the DC office of a top DC and top NY firm. I will say without question that we are the exception among our peers in terms of educational pedigree, and this has been the case through every phase of our career (through internships, government jobs, etc.). I'm not sure how things would have been different if we had different degrees - but I will say that getting here has been an incredible amount of work, and it took many years to feel confident that our educational status would not hinder attracting certain clients (sad, but true). I know for a fact that the odds of landing a summer internship or associate job at my firm are slim to none without an Ivy or top 20 school under your belt. I'm still not sure how I got here - but now that I am , I fully understand the value of a top school for opening doors in the legal profession. And, for the lawyer haters - I really do love my job. Life as a partner is good - and I earned it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from public HS, public college and 2nd tier public law school - all in state - as did my husband. We both graduated in the top 3-5% of our law school class and are now partners at the DC office of a top DC and top NY firm. I will say without question that we are the exception among our peers in terms of educational pedigree, and this has been the case through every phase of our career (through internships, government jobs, etc.). I'm not sure how things would have been different if we had different degrees - but I will say that getting here has been an incredible amount of work, and it took many years to feel confident that our educational status would not hinder attracting certain clients (sad, but true). I know for a fact that the odds of landing a summer internship or associate job at my firm are slim to none without an Ivy or top 20 school under your belt. I'm still not sure how I got here - but now that I am , I fully understand the value of a top school for opening doors in the legal profession. And, for the lawyer haters - I really do love my job. Life as a partner is good - and I earned it.

I'm the PP who made the post about law firms - thanks for your honesty! Like you, I did not go to an Ivy and have done remarkably well, but I am definitely also an exception to the rule.

[Anonymous]

I'm another who can't believe that kids work themselves to the bone in HS so they can get into an Ivy to actually end up doing less homework and have an easier time. If these schools are so respected, and competitition so fierce, it goes without saying that they offer some of the greatest challenges of all. Kids who have worked so hard in HS aren't going to one of these schools in order to merely skate through.

You have to study hard every day in order to take the test and to write the paper. In my day there, one economics class alone required 18 books. I knew no one who "didn't read the books" and stayed enrolled.

Sorry, this dog won't hunt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another who can't believe that kids work themselves to the bone in HS so they can get into an Ivy to actually end up doing less homework and have an easier time. If these schools are so respected, and competitition so fierce, it goes without saying that they offer some of the greatest challenges of all. Kids who have worked so hard in HS aren't going to one of these schools in order to merely skate through.

You have to study hard every day in order to take the test and to write the paper. In my day there, one economics class alone required 18 books. I knew no one who "didn't read the books" and stayed enrolled.

Sorry, this dog won't hunt.

I am one of the PP's who related this as my personal experience (10/3 @11:03). Believe me, I am not proud of my college experience from an academic perspective, and I know in hindsight that I should have gotten a lot more out of college academically than I did, but it is the honest truth. I rarely did the reading, rarely went to lecture classes, and I finished with a 3.7 in a liberal arts major at an Ivy League school. I went out with my friends at least 4 nights a week, usually more. I was completely burned out academically after the work--and the constant college admissions pressure--of my HS experience.

After taking a couple years off, I went to a Top 5 law school and approached law school like I should have approached college academically. I loved it, and I finished in the top 3 or 4 of my class of 400. High school was still more work and, relatively speaking, harder.

[Anonymous]

Sure, I can see how some might get into college and enjoy the freedoms a little too much. But it doesn't make sense for the majority to work so hard to get into an Ivy, take it easy and mess up their college GPAs. Affects their job prospects as well as grad school acceptances. So why are you going to these colleges in the first place?

If there's less work at an Ivy, it is because of the student's decision, not the colleges.

Seems to me that the best course of action is to love to learn throughout life. In other words, you should enjoy the journey and not just the destination.

Personally, I've known lots of people with good educations who figured that once they got out of college, learning was over. And it shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from public HS, public college and 2nd tier public law school - all in state - as did my husband. We both graduated in the top 3-5% of our law school class and are now partners at the DC office of a top DC and top NY firm. I will say without question that we are the exception among our peers in terms of educational pedigree, and this has been the case through every phase of our career (through internships, government jobs, etc.). I'm not sure how things would have been different if we had different degrees - but I will say that getting here has been an incredible amount of work, and it took many years to feel confident that our educational status would not hinder attracting certain clients (sad, but true). I know for a fact that the odds of landing a summer internship or associate job at my firm are slim to none without an Ivy or top 20 school under your belt. I'm still not sure how I got here - but now that I am , I fully understand the value of a top school for opening doors in the legal profession. And, for the lawyer haters - I really do love my job. Life as a partner is good - and I earned it.

I can SO relate! I went to a second tier law school (and a very off the beaten path undergrad) and had such a hard time getting into a so-called "white shoe" firm. I did it -- and interestingly enough, hated it and went to government. But I second your comment about how much work it is (and how much lcuk, tenacity, etc. is required). I can really appreicate the doors that an Ivy education opens for people. That said, I'm not concerned about whether my DC go to an Ivy. Dh and I are both lawyers, but we're kind of hoping our DC want to do something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends upon the quality of the work. If they are working on big projects and interesting work, then fine. When I was in MS and HS, 5+ hours was normal.

Let's face it, everyone here wants Ivy schools for their kids. If they can't do 5+ hours every night, college will come as a real shock.

I went to a top college (not an Ivy) but the work was a joke for me after going to a top notch private school in another state. Most of my friends went to Ivies and feel the same way. In 7th and 8th grade I had about 3 hours of HW a night and in high school it was about 4-5. I also played sports all the seasons and did school plays- Many nights I would not get home until 8 or 9 at night.

It was definitely overkill as far as homework goes and most of it was not interesting work.

You can do well in college if you know how to manage your time. It's definitely that type of game. There are so many distractions and no one is there to really monitor what you're up to and that is where kids get into trouble. I know some smart kids that failed out of my college because they could not manage their time well and partied too hard. If it's one thing that private school taught me was how to study and how to manage my time. That said, the 4 or 5 hours of homework I got a night was definitely overkill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends upon the quality of the work. If they are working on big projects and interesting work, then fine. When I was in MS and HS, 5+ hours was normal.

Let's face it, everyone here wants Ivy schools for their kids. If they can't do 5+ hours every night, college will come as a real shock.

I went to a top college (not an Ivy) but the work was a joke for me after going to a top notch private school in another state. Most of my friends went to Ivies and feel the same way. In 7th and 8th grade I had about 3 hours of HW a night and in high school it was about 4-5. I also played sports all the seasons and did school plays- Many nights I would not get home until 8 or 9 at night.

It was definitely overkill as far as homework goes and most of it was not interesting work.

You can do well in college if you know how to manage your time. It's definitely that type of game. There are so many distractions and no one is there to really monitor what you're up to and that is where kids get into trouble. I know some smart kids that failed out of my college because they could not manage their time well and partied too hard. If it's one thing that private school taught me was how to study and how to manage my time. That said, the 4 or 5 hours of homework I got a night was definitely overkill.

4-5 hours a night in middle school is overkill. But as far as I can tell, schools assign much less homework these days. My DD is in MS in one of the schools under discussion and she does not have anything even close to 4-5 hours of homework each night. In fact, she and her friends do most of their homework in school during study periods. The schools seem to have gone too far in the direction of reducing homework in the last couple of years, leaving some children insufficiently challenged.

[Anonymous]

My child was not challenged at her former MS and actually requested that she get more homework. She was bored. Now at another school where she is getting 4 - 5 hours of homework each night - and not complaining at all. The work is meaty and challenging and giving her a chance to strengthen her writing and speaking skills. Says she is learning so much more this year in comparison.

I also agree that it's not the hours of work you have - it's about the quality of the work that is given. I'm concerned over our country' consistent drop in secondary school skills where we are nowhere near the top anymore in world-wide students. You would not believe the number (and names) of countries who are above us. We are losing ground fast as well as quality.

There is a correlation between homework, study skills and mastery in subjects. I, for one, would not want my child's school to be de-emphasizing homework. I think giving quality homework is the way to go. Our family has seen what little homework does - it did not challenge my child.

[Anonymous]

To the PP -- with 4-5 hours of homework every night, does she ever get to read for fun, go outside, ponder things in an undirected way? If not, I don't care how "meaty" the homework is.... I feel sorry for her.

[Anonymous]

I thought that the research did not support a correlation between homework and mastery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP -- with 4-5 hours of homework every night, does she ever get to read for fun, go outside, ponder things in an undirected way? If not, I don't care how "meaty" the homework is.... I feel sorry for her.

Ditto. Reading for pleasure, taking part in a hobby and an enjoyable physical activity are all very important. As is making time just to have friends over for a pizza. And there is no way a kid who is getting 4 hours or more EVERY NIGHT has the time to do these things. I think encouraging this homework schedule makes way for raising an individual that either burns out before graduating college, or raising more type A people who only value work at the expense of personal relationships. A sad situation either way.

[Anonymous]

My daughter did the 5 hours of homework a night at Holton and also found the time to do 2 varsity sports. Most of her friends were from the sports teams. People with a lot of talent find the time to do a lot of stuff...it goes back to the saying "if you want something done...go to a busy person". She's at an Ivy now and the homework is even more than 5 hours.

[Anonymous]

Having an elemantary school aged kid who struggles with 1+ hour of homework a night, I am wondering when these kids with 4+ hours of homework a night PLUS sports and activtities get up and go to bed? How do they get enough sleep?