Why is TJHSST exempt from overcrowding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The actual answer to the question is that TJ, as a governor’s school, gets a financial supplement from the state per kid to offset the extra costs associated with educating a kid at TJ. And the state legislature sets the number of kids they are willing to pay a supplement for. Last time I checked, TJ still accepted more kids than the state reimburses for, and FCPS eats the added cost. To add even more kids above that, you need a bigger TJ budget.

Plus, even with the renovation, they only have so much space for the TJ specific mandatory classes, like Design Tech and Senior labs. And research labs and design tech are not classes you can safely or effectively add extra students to. History? Yes. Specialized microelectronics research? Not so much.

But I have a feeling Op was not looking for an actual answer.

I’m interested in the uptick in TJ is the root of all evil posts in February. Usually there is a spate of these posts after decisions are released in April. Were there an unusually large number of surprising first round cuts this year pwith the new test? Or do parents have the sense their kid bombed the SiS?

The current 8th grade class is the same bloated AAP year group that had the big test cheating scandal resulting in crazy amounts of kids being selected for AAP.

I am sure there is some correlation with what you are observing. Maybe you are hearing from people who just realized how much more difficult it is to cheat into TJ?

And I am not a TJ parent.

I am just annoyed by the "if my kid doesn't get the something special than no kid should get something special" crowd.

Yeah, what were they thinking when they came up with that silly “equal protection” clause?

I love it when people who aren’t lawyers try to play lawyers on TV.

You kid has the same opportunity to apply to TJ as any other kid. That’s the equal protection.

Ever heard of disparate impact?

TJ will be shut down eventually. It's only a question of when.

That isn’t how disparate impact works either. Give up while you are behind.

And having TJ turn out the NMSFs and SAT scores and Siemens winners and Regeneron winners makes FCPS look great, and is an incentive for tech companies to land in Fairfax County. Every once in a while, the school board tweaks admissions practices. No one serious wants to shut TJ down. As long as TJ kids keep performing, the school board will leave TJ alone.

I always find it interesting that some parents are so bitter about TJ that they want to destroy the country’s best high school. Why not advocate for taking the parts of TJ that work really well, like IBET and 8th period and expand the to other FCPS high schools?

The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact.

TJ has been around for a while and there have been plenty of opportunities to make the school more of a community resource or a laboratory for best practices that could be employed elsewhere. It doesn’t happen because TJ doesn’t want it to happen. The school has become ever more insular over time and the goal of anyone who ever has authority over the school is to reinforce its exclusivity.

If we didn’t have TJ, we’d have many more schools receiving greater accolades, unless you think the TJ families will all take their marbles elsewhere. I don’t think that would happen, but it’s a risk well worth taking in exchange for the greater attention that other schools and communities would receive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The actual answer to the question is that TJ, as a governor’s school, gets a financial supplement from the state per kid to offset the extra costs associated with educating a kid at TJ. And the state legislature sets the number of kids they are willing to pay a supplement for. Last time I checked, TJ still accepted more kids than the state reimburses for, and FCPS eats the added cost. To add even more kids above that, you need a bigger TJ budget.

Plus, even with the renovation, they only have so much space for the TJ specific mandatory classes, like Design Tech and Senior labs. And research labs and design tech are not classes you can safely or effectively add extra students to. History? Yes. Specialized microelectronics research? Not so much.

But I have a feeling Op was not looking for an actual answer.

I’m interested in the uptick in TJ is the root of all evil posts in February. Usually there is a spate of these posts after decisions are released in April. Were there an unusually large number of surprising first round cuts this year pwith the new test? Or do parents have the sense their kid bombed the SiS?

The current 8th grade class is the same bloated AAP year group that had the big test cheating scandal resulting in crazy amounts of kids being selected for AAP.

I am sure there is some correlation with what you are observing. Maybe you are hearing from people who just realized how much more difficult it is to cheat into TJ?

And I am not a TJ parent.

I am just annoyed by the "if my kid doesn't get the something special than no kid should get something special" crowd.

Yeah, what were they thinking when they came up with that silly “equal protection” clause?

I love it when people who aren’t lawyers try to play lawyers on TV.

You kid has the same opportunity to apply to TJ as any other kid. That’s the equal protection.

Ever heard of disparate impact?

TJ will be shut down eventually. It's only a question of when.

That isn’t how disparate impact works either. Give up while you are behind.

And having TJ turn out the NMSFs and SAT scores and Siemens winners and Regeneron winners makes FCPS look great, and is an incentive for tech companies to land in Fairfax County. Every once in a while, the school board tweaks admissions practices. No one serious wants to shut TJ down. As long as TJ kids keep performing, the school board will leave TJ alone.

I always find it interesting that some parents are so bitter about TJ that they want to destroy the country’s best high school. Why not advocate for taking the parts of TJ that work really well, like IBET and 8th period and expand the to other FCPS high schools?

The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact.

TJ has been around for a while and there have been plenty of opportunities to make the school more of a community resource or a laboratory for best practices that could be employed elsewhere. It doesn’t happen because TJ doesn’t want it to happen. The school has become ever more insular over time and the goal of anyone who ever has authority over the school is to reinforce its exclusivity.

If we didn’t have TJ, we’d have many more schools receiving greater accolades, unless you think the TJ families will all take their marbles elsewhere. I don’t think that would happen, but it’s a risk well worth taking in exchange for the greater attention that other schools and communities would receive.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact.

TJ has been around for a while and there have been plenty of opportunities to make the school more of a community resource or a laboratory for best practices that could be employed elsewhere. It doesn’t happen because TJ doesn’t want it to happen. The school has become ever more insular over time and the goal of anyone who ever has authority over the school is to reinforce its exclusivity.

If we didn’t have TJ, we’d have many more schools receiving greater accolades, unless you think the TJ families will all take their marbles elsewhere. I don’t think that would happen, but it’s a risk well worth taking in exchange for the greater attention that other schools and communities would receive.

How exactly is TJ preventing any other FCPS school from implementing things like 8th period or IBET? If it's not TJ, then it's either the other HS themselves OR FCPS Administration. Maybe that's where to focus all this energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact.

TJ has been around for a while and there have been plenty of opportunities to make the school more of a community resource or a laboratory for best practices that could be employed elsewhere. It doesn’t happen because TJ doesn’t want it to happen. The school has become ever more insular over time and the goal of anyone who ever has authority over the school is to reinforce its exclusivity.

If we didn’t have TJ, we’d have many more schools receiving greater accolades, unless you think the TJ families will all take their marbles elsewhere. I don’t think that would happen, but it’s a risk well worth taking in exchange for the greater attention that other schools and communities would receive.

How exactly is TJ preventing any other FCPS school from implementing things like 8th period or IBET? If it's not TJ, then it's either the other HS themselves OR FCPS Administration. Maybe that's where to focus all this energy.

It ought to be a two-way street, of course, and it isn't. TJHSST now exists to perpetuate TJHSST. The TJ administration actually revised the school's mission statement at some point to strip out language that had been in the original mission statement and stated that TJ would be an incubator of best practices to share with other schools.

County schools were fine without TJHSST, and they'll be fine when it returns to neighborhood school status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The actual answer to the question is that TJ, as a governor’s school, gets a financial supplement from the state per kid to offset the extra costs associated with educating a kid at TJ. And the state legislature sets the number of kids they are willing to pay a supplement for. Last time I checked, TJ still accepted more kids than the state reimburses for, and FCPS eats the added cost. To add even more kids above that, you need a bigger TJ budget.

Plus, even with the renovation, they only have so much space for the TJ specific mandatory classes, like Design Tech and Senior labs. And research labs and design tech are not classes you can safely or effectively add extra students to. History? Yes. Specialized microelectronics research? Not so much.

But I have a feeling Op was not looking for an actual answer.

I’m interested in the uptick in TJ is the root of all evil posts in February. Usually there is a spate of these posts after decisions are released in April. Were there an unusually large number of surprising first round cuts this year pwith the new test? Or do parents have the sense their kid bombed the SiS?

The current 8th grade class is the same bloated AAP year group that had the big test cheating scandal resulting in crazy amounts of kids being selected for AAP.

I am sure there is some correlation with what you are observing. Maybe you are hearing from people who just realized how much more difficult it is to cheat into TJ?

And I am not a TJ parent.

I am just annoyed by the "if my kid doesn't get the something special than no kid should get something special" crowd.

Yeah, what were they thinking when they came up with that silly “equal protection” clause?

That’s not how that clause works you idiot

+1. No wonder their kid could not get into TJ.

Completely unnecessary remark.

[Anonymous]

How exactly is TJ preventing any other FCPS school from implementing things like 8th period or IBET? If it's not TJ, then it's either the other HS themselves OR FCPS Administration. Maybe that's where to focus all this energy.

I don't think TJ is preventing other schools from doing these things, but, to be fair, implementing 8th period would mean extending the school day at other schools, which would require approval from FCPS and would affect bus services for not only the high school setting up an 8th period, but all the other schools using the same buses. It would definitely involve a lot of moving parts.

[Anonymous]

quote "The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact."

How do the AAP screening and TJ admissions disadvantage certain students? - serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:quote "The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact."

How do the AAP screening and TJ admissions disadvantage certain students? - serious question.

Especially when TJ admissions is color blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:quote "The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact."

How do the AAP screening and TJ admissions disadvantage certain students? - serious question.

Especially when TJ admissions is color blind.

And it used to not be and was forced to become color blind through lawsuits but some jackass in this thread thinks the "fixed" system required by the courts is the one that's unconstitutional? Lordy.

[Anonymous]

I'll bite:

TJ admissions favor
1) Kids from higher SES families who potentially give kids greater opportunities
2) Kids whose parents are highly educated who emphasize the importance of education
3) Kids from cultures that emphasize education (and perhaps prepping)

These things tend to be correlated with race.

So what is the solution? First, try basing admissions on un-preppable tests. Advertise the program more heavily in areas with kids without these advantages.

Obviously, this will only do so much. Most of these advantage come from the kids' home life.

Should the schools consciously take race into account when admitting students? Many would argue that this is explicit racist.
Even if one takes race into account in the second, more holistic, phase of the admissions process, it is probably too late. Few AA and Hispanic kids make it into the second round of the admissions process.

[Anonymous]

TJ ain't gonna be shut down. Ain't gonna happen. So don't hold your breath on that.

While TJ is mostly Asian/White and most of the kids prepped (except for the kids of those posting on DCUM, of course) the kids and the parents go through a lot to get the kids there. Time/money spent driving to/from "enrichment" classes; driving to/from the drop-off bus stop, etc.

The simple solution is to dilute the effects of AAP and TJ on the school system. How? Make all schools AAP. AAP should be opt-in at the subject level all the way through HS. This would allow base HS to make TJ-level education available to everyone. Eventually, TJ-specific interest will drop and local kids will start going there.

Funding is the issue of course. Why not cancel bus services and have parents drop off and pick up the kids as TJ parents do today? How many of you would sign up for that in return for a better quality education?
Increase taxes - Any takers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ ain't gonna be shut down. Ain't gonna happen. So don't hold your breath on that.

While TJ is mostly Asian/White and most of the kids prepped (except for the kids of those posting on DCUM, of course) the kids and the parents go through a lot to get the kids there. Time/money spent driving to/from "enrichment" classes; driving to/from the drop-off bus stop, etc.

The simple solution is to dilute the effects of AAP and TJ on the school system. How? Make all schools AAP. AAP should be opt-in at the subject level all the way through HS. This would allow base HS to make TJ-level education available to everyone. Eventually, TJ-specific interest will drop and local kids will start going there.

Funding is the issue of course. Why not cancel bus services and have parents drop off and pick up the kids as TJ parents do today? How many of you would sign up for that in return for a better quality education?
Increase taxes - Any takers?

Yes it's why I live in Maryland actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TJ ain't gonna be shut down. Ain't gonna happen. So don't hold your breath on that.

While TJ is mostly Asian/White and most of the kids prepped (except for the kids of those posting on DCUM, of course) the kids and the parents go through a lot to get the kids there. Time/money spent driving to/from "enrichment" classes; driving to/from the drop-off bus stop, etc.

The simple solution is to dilute the effects of AAP and TJ on the school system. How? Make all schools AAP. AAP should be opt-in at the subject level all the way through HS. This would allow base HS to make TJ-level education available to everyone. Eventually, TJ-specific interest will drop and local kids will start going there.

Funding is the issue of course. Why not cancel bus services and have parents drop off and pick up the kids as TJ parents do today? How many of you would sign up for that in return for a better quality education?
Increase taxes - Any takers?

I would support it and wish it were available now. Right now, my kid is not being sufficiently challenged (DC is in the area of not being at the tippy-top of scores but a very high achiever; DC gets the "regular" curriculum even though in some subjects DC would be able to work at a higher level). This approach would allow more of a focus on individual capabilities rather than the current cookie cutter approach in FCPS.

I'd be happy to drive and increase what I pay for it.

I don't have a huge issue with TJ other than I feel like none of my taxes should go to it if my kid gets no benefit from it (as another PP mentioned, the practices were supp'd to bleed out to the other schools but that clearly has not happened). It's a pretty isolated institution. That's what I don't like about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The AAP screening and TJ admissions policies clearly disadvantage students who are not Asian or white, and relegate then to more crowded schools where they have access to fewer courses and resources. It is a classic example of a disparate impact.

TJ has been around for a while and there have been plenty of opportunities to make the school more of a community resource or a laboratory for best practices that could be employed elsewhere. It doesn’t happen because TJ doesn’t want it to happen. The school has become ever more insular over time and the goal of anyone who ever has authority over the school is to reinforce its exclusivity.

If we didn’t have TJ, we’d have many more schools receiving greater accolades, unless you think the TJ families will all take their marbles elsewhere. I don’t think that would happen, but it’s a risk well worth taking in exchange for the greater attention that other schools and communities would receive.

How exactly is TJ preventing any other FCPS school from implementing things like 8th period or IBET? If it's not TJ, then it's either the other HS themselves OR FCPS Administration. Maybe that's where to focus all this energy.

It ought to be a two-way street, of course, and it isn't. TJHSST now exists to perpetuate TJHSST. The TJ administration actually revised the school's mission statement at some point to strip out language that had been in the original mission statement and stated that TJ would be an incubator of best practices to share with other schools.

County schools were fine without TJHSST, and they'll be fine when it returns to neighborhood school status.

When were County schools fine without TJ? 1986? TJ has been a magnet for at least 30 years. How long have you been pissed that it is no longer a neighborhood school? I know current TJ kids whose parents are magnet school alums FFS.

As for “TJ doesn’t do community outreach” that’s BS. Here are some of the programs that the TJ community uses to share resources, encourage community involvement and recruit minority talent:

http://blog.jkcf.org/welcome-to-the-jack-kent-cooke-foundation-blog/one-selective-high-school-lifts-students-up-with-enrichment-program

https://www.fcps.edu/index.php/registration/thomas-jefferson-admissions/welcome/stem-resources-and-outreach/outreach

http://www.nvtc.org/membership/getmbrnewscontent.php?code=112

https://tjpartnershipfund.org/outreach/middle-schl-tech-institute/

https://activities.tjhsst.edu/twist/#techstravaganza

https://tjpartnershipfund.org/outreach/usa-science-engineering-festival/

https://hacktj.org/

https://tjsciencefair.wordpress.com/

https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/features/eighth-period-clubs-offer-tutoring-middle-and-elementary-schools

https://tjhsst.fcps.edu/announcements/josti-conference

https://www.fcps.edu/index.php/node/33463

http://tjpartnershipfund.org/2015/08/msti-and-stembassadors-help-tj-reach-younger-students/

TJ is reaching out. You’re just too full of resentment to reach back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ ain't gonna be shut down. Ain't gonna happen. So don't hold your breath on that.

While TJ is mostly Asian/White and most of the kids prepped (except for the kids of those posting on DCUM, of course) the kids and the parents go through a lot to get the kids there. Time/money spent driving to/from "enrichment" classes; driving to/from the drop-off bus stop, etc.

The simple solution is to dilute the effects of AAP and TJ on the school system. How? Make all schools AAP. AAP should be opt-in at the subject level all the way through HS. This would allow base HS to make TJ-level education available to everyone. Eventually, TJ-specific interest will drop and local kids will start going there.

Funding is the issue of course. Why not cancel bus services and have parents drop off and pick up the kids as TJ parents do today? How many of you would sign up for that in return for a better quality education?
Increase taxes - Any takers?

I would support it and wish it were available now. Right now, my kid is not being sufficiently challenged (DC is in the area of not being at the tippy-top of scores but a very high achiever; DC gets the "regular" curriculum even though in some subjects DC would be able to work at a higher level). This approach would allow more of a focus on individual capabilities rather than the current cookie cutter approach in FCPS.

I'd be happy to drive and increase what I pay for it.

I don't have a huge issue with TJ other than I feel like none of my taxes should go to it if my kid gets no benefit from it (as another PP mentioned, the practices were supp'd to bleed out to the other schools but that clearly has not happened). It's a pretty isolated institution. That's what I don't like about it.

TJ is paid for by a combination of state governors school funding and public-private partnerships/ donations. You don’t pay extra for it. But even if you did, that’s the nature of public education. I don’t want my tax dollars to support you kid’s sports teams, but they do anyway.

And TJ isn’t an isolated institution. It’s faculty, staff, students, parents and alumni are all over the place doing all sorts of things. Volunteering at middle schools and elementray schools. Hosting educational conferences. Hosting STEM teacher training. Sponsoring science fairs and hackathons and community STEM days, hosting middle school and high school summer STEM institutes, competing in the same athletic conference as your kid, and at the same band competitions, and the same academic competitions. Sending students to Udvar Hazy on weekends and during the summer for STEM programs. If your kid is struggling in FCPS math and you can’t afford a tutor, you can call the schools and they will find a student who will work with your kid. They work with the Jack Kent Cook Foundation and the Department of State on STEM outreach. The TJ community puts a lot of time and thought and energy into community outreach.