Google employee fired for comment/controversy about women and tech, what role did autism play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, nobody said to give him a pass because he has autism. The question is whether his autism makes you more empathetic or see the situation differently. To me, the answer is YES. Since he is autistic, he may need more express instruction about why expressing his thoughts in this way is unacceptable or hurtful in the workplace. He also seems possibly more vulnerable to exploitation by people who take advantage of his social naivete (eg the alt-right people). With some empathetic outreach, he could absolutely learn about what he has done.

That's very different from saying he deserves a pass; or that being sexist/racist/offensive is a characteristic of autism.

No, because the natural outgrowth from your post is that someone like Damore should not be in a management position. If we posit that autists cannot understand why voicing harmful thoughts about women and people of color is wrong, then we cannot trust autists to manage women and people of color.

Damore was a manager. He had women and PoC on his team. How would it feel to know your manager thinks you are inherently less intelligent and don't deserve your position in the company?

Pretty shitty. Now, if we accept that Damore cannot be expected to be a good manager because he cannot control his impulsive racism and sexism, then the logical conclusion is that people with autism cannot be trusted in positions of authority.

Is that where you want to end up? Or shall we just hold this one KKK-defending douchebro responsible for his actions and not bring autism into it?

He is very high functioning and there is a very small impact. If he had moderate autism it would be one thing but he lacks the social skills needed to be a manager. But, its very common in the IT world. There is probably some meaning behind it like his parents feeling that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, nobody said to give him a pass because he has autism. The question is whether his autism makes you more empathetic or see the situation differently. To me, the answer is YES. Since he is autistic, he may need more express instruction about why expressing his thoughts in this way is unacceptable or hurtful in the workplace. He also seems possibly more vulnerable to exploitation by people who take advantage of his social naivete (eg the alt-right people). With some empathetic outreach, he could absolutely learn about what he has done.

That's very different from saying he deserves a pass; or that being sexist/racist/offensive is a characteristic of autism.

No, because the natural outgrowth from your post is that someone like Damore should not be in a management position. If we posit that autists cannot understand why voicing harmful thoughts about women and people of color is wrong, then we cannot trust autists to manage women and people of color.

Damore was a manager. He had women and PoC on his team. How would it feel to know your manager thinks you are inherently less intelligent and don't deserve your position in the company?

Pretty shitty. Now, if we accept that Damore cannot be expected to be a good manager because he cannot control his impulsive racism and sexism, then the logical conclusion is that people with autism cannot be trusted in positions of authority.

Is that where you want to end up? Or shall we just hold this one KKK-defending douchebro responsible for his actions and not bring autism into it?

You're reading WAY too much into what I wrote. Disciplining Damore was totally appropriate and I share all your concerns about his fitness as a manager. To say that his autism may be a relevant thing to consider is NOT saying that A) all autistic people are the same or B) he deserves a pass or C) no autistic person should be a manager.

[Anonymous]

It may have played a factor just like anyone with ADHD or anxiety but it's irrelevant. Plenty of non-autistic could have held these views and by being so prolific about promoting the, they would face the same consequences. That's just the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I thought it was an eye opener. A scary one. While I don't love his views, he cited statistics that I never knew to be true. Just because I don't like his conclusions doesn't mean his facts are wrong. Why aren't people have a discussion about that, instead of labeling him whatever?

I'm very skeptical about the brain science aspect of it. Brain science of the past has said some insane things that have been proven absolutely wrong. Living in DC, anecdotally only, I don't see it playing out in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People with disabilities can still be jerks, still be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.

It isn’t a pass. It shouldn’t be.

+1, They pulled a guy from college and quickly had him rise through the ranks. He wasn't prepared for the social/manager part of it and needed someone to mentor him and more time working. That is not a typical attitude in IT.

He could have stayed in college. He wasn't drafted into the army.

He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this.

So learning from mistakes can be a challenge with Autism and often happens much more slowly that for NT peers because the person with Autism doesn't full perceive the environment around them to understand the feedback it's providing. (Not particularly in his firing because the was unambiguous feedback, but the point would be that he may not have learned previous lessons from social feedback to develop to the point of not writing the manifesto.)

So? He's still responsible for the choices he made. Autism isn't responsible, he is. Most everyone has something--ADHD, anxiety, what have you.

What have I? Maybe, better reading comprehension and education on the challenges of Autism? I didn't take a position on whether he was responsible for the choices or not. I merely pointed out that your statement "He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this" may not be true depending on the extent of his Autism. A typical characteristic of Autism is not fully understanding the surrounding social environment and as a result not being able to learn from mistakes in the way a NT person would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People with disabilities can still be jerks, still be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.

It isn’t a pass. It shouldn’t be.

+1, They pulled a guy from college and quickly had him rise through the ranks. He wasn't prepared for the social/manager part of it and needed someone to mentor him and more time working. That is not a typical attitude in IT.

He could have stayed in college. He wasn't drafted into the army.

He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this.

So learning from mistakes can be a challenge with Autism and often happens much more slowly that for NT peers because the person with Autism doesn't full perceive the environment around them to understand the feedback it's providing. (Not particularly in his firing because the was unambiguous feedback, but the point would be that he may not have learned previous lessons from social feedback to develop to the point of not writing the manifesto.)

So? He's still responsible for the choices he made. Autism isn't responsible, he is. Most everyone has something--ADHD, anxiety, what have you.

What have I? Maybe, better reading comprehension and education on the challenges of Autism? I didn't take a position on whether he was responsible for the choices or not. I merely pointed out that your statement "He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this" may not be true depending on the extent of his Autism. A typical characteristic of Autism is not fully understanding the surrounding social environment and as a result not being able to learn from mistakes in the way a NT person would.

Not understanding the social environment and slower to learn certain things isn't limited to autism.

He definitely learned b/c he's trying to use the devil made me do it defense and blaming autism for his actions. He deserved to be fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I thought it was an eye opener. A scary one. While I don't love his views, he cited statistics that I never knew to be true. Just because I don't like his conclusions doesn't mean his facts are wrong. Why aren't people have a discussion about that, instead of labeling him whatever?

I'm very skeptical about the brain science aspect of it. Brain science of the past has said some insane things that have been proven absolutely wrong. Living in DC, anecdotally only, I don't see it playing out in real life.

Watch C-SPAN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I thought it was an eye opener. A scary one. While I don't love his views, he cited statistics that I never knew to be true. Just because I don't like his conclusions doesn't mean his facts are wrong. Why aren't people have a discussion about that, instead of labeling him whatever?

I'm very skeptical about the brain science aspect of it. Brain science of the past has said some insane things that have been proven absolutely wrong. Living in DC, anecdotally only, I don't see it playing out in real life.

Watch C-SPAN.

LOL, I meant empirically. Not dogma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People with disabilities can still be jerks, still be sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.

It isn’t a pass. It shouldn’t be.

+1, They pulled a guy from college and quickly had him rise through the ranks. He wasn't prepared for the social/manager part of it and needed someone to mentor him and more time working. That is not a typical attitude in IT.

He could have stayed in college. He wasn't drafted into the army.

He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this.

So learning from mistakes can be a challenge with Autism and often happens much more slowly that for NT peers because the person with Autism doesn't full perceive the environment around them to understand the feedback it's providing. (Not particularly in his firing because the was unambiguous feedback, but the point would be that he may not have learned previous lessons from social feedback to develop to the point of not writing the manifesto.)

So? He's still responsible for the choices he made. Autism isn't responsible, he is. Most everyone has something--ADHD, anxiety, what have you.

What have I? Maybe, better reading comprehension and education on the challenges of Autism? I didn't take a position on whether he was responsible for the choices or not. I merely pointed out that your statement "He's capable of learning from his mistakes and will recover from this" may not be true depending on the extent of his Autism. A typical characteristic of Autism is not fully understanding the surrounding social environment and as a result not being able to learn from mistakes in the way a NT person would.

Not understanding the social environment and slower to learn certain things isn't limited to autism.

He definitely learned b/c he's trying to use the devil made me do it defense and blaming autism for his actions. He deserved to be fired.

Article made it clear he was not using autism as an excuse. However, it does raise an interesting point. If we are going to make the workplace safe for people of all genders, orientations and races, what about non-NTs?

[Anonymous]

There are very like other people on the spectrum who work there and aren't massive jerks.

[Anonymous]

About that ability to learn lessons, from the article:

"Damore’s performance included an awkwardly delivered masturbation joke that offended some female students. Two professors later wrote to students apologising for the “uneasiness, embarrassment or offense” he had caused. Damore still finds it hard to see why his skit was objectionable, but accepts he may view it differently, “because I’m on the spectrum”.

So...yeah. The professors had to send a mass email apologizing for his behaviour, but he still didn't learn a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About that ability to learn lessons, from the article:

"Damore’s performance included an awkwardly delivered masturbation joke that offended some female students. Two professors later wrote to students apologising for the “uneasiness, embarrassment or offense” he had caused. Damore still finds it hard to see why his skit was objectionable, but accepts he may view it differently, “because I’m on the spectrum”.

So...yeah. The professors had to send a mass email apologizing for his behaviour, but he still didn't learn a thing.

Telling offensive jokes is different than railing against diversity hiring practices at his firm, which is why he was fired. Not his company's fault that he was coddled and made excuses for.

[Anonymous]

Why is everyone afraid to debate whether a race or gender is better suited for certain jobs.

[Anonymous]

Trump should pass a law that protects freedom of gender and race opinions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is everyone afraid to debate whether a race or gender is better suited for certain jobs.

Because the issue has an awful history.