I can tell my fil to stop this, right?

[Anonymous]

We're not criminologists; we're parents. The thing for a parent to be concerned about is whether a behavior leaves a child more vulnerable to sexual abuse. And the child repeatedly seeing his mother and father *not* respond to an adult touching the private parts of his body does that.

As to whether Grandpa intends this outcome or not--we really have no information suggesting that Grandpa is innocent other than the fact that he has "Grandpa" as a name. Lotta people with their heads in the sand, here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. He's 5. I tell him about not touching or allowing anyone to touch his private parts and all that. I noticed the butt tickling a while back on a family vacation, but I didn't say anything. Ds was maybe 3. I did tell my husband, but I don't think he ever addressed it with his dad. Then more recently, he was doing it again. It bothers me no end, and I felt like it's very confusing since I teach my son that nobody is allowed to touch his privates, and here I am allowing it. Pp, thank you so much for the script. Very helpful (in my head I was seeing myself blurt out "you don't touch kids butts, you dumbass.") Anyway, I'll have to think a little more about whether to also tell ds to say stop. I don't want to put that on him, but then again, he needs to know how to stand up for himself.

OP, new poster here. I agree with you that grandpa is out of line and you are right to want to end this. It is really about grandpa undermining the very basic lesson you are teaching your son about appropriate touch. Grandpa does not see the lesson (it wasn't really articulated in some earlier generations, so grandpa may just not get that it matters to you and DH--cut him that bit of slack but still, he needs to stop).

But why so vague on the following? "I did tell my husband, but I don't think he ever addressed it with his dad." Did you just point it out to your husband generally, or did you specifically ask DH to talk to his father to stop it at that time? Why no follow-up from you with DH or from DH back to you? Does DH tend to be deferential toward his dad, or not want to rock the boat with grandpa generally?

It is each parent's job to deal with his or her own family in cases like this, I believe. If you address this with your FIL yourself, especially as you seem to indicate in the initial post that you have other issues with FIL, your FIL may simply dismiss your concerns as prudish, helicoptering, etc. and keep doing what he sees as cute and harmless.

Your DH, not you, needs to talk to his father and needs to be direct and clear that DH -- not JUST you, DH himself -- is telling grandpa to stop. DH does not need to do a huge lecture or give a ton of reasons. He can be short and sweet: "Dad, I'm asking you to stop tickling Son on the butt. He's nearly in school now and too old for it, frankly. We are teaching him that no one, except a doctor or us, should touch him anywhere his bathing suit would cover. It's not personal or about you, it's about being certain we don't confuse him. I'm sure you'll respect this. Thanks." If grandpa fusses or fumes, DH needs to be able to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. This is not personal toward you. We are teaching Son some things I'm sure you wouldn't want to undermine." Calmly, every single time if grandpa carps about it. Then DH changes the topic every time too. If grandpa fumes at you and blames you for trying to "turn my grandson against me" or "treat me like an offender" or whatever.....Keep cool and just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. It's not personal" and refer him back to DH over and over if need be. I hope grandpa will just let it go and won't take it as a personal accusation.

Please talk clearly with your DH - that, not FIL, is your first conversation. Be sure DH is not going to go to his dad and roll his eyes and say, "DW is so uptight but she asked me to say this, so please just stop touching Son's butt so she'll get off my case" or anything like that. I truly hope your DH isn't that way. .

Script out what you'll say to your DH. You are right that grandpa's tickling of a kid as old as 5 in this way does undermine the message you're sending that only a doctor or mom or dad can touch your son in certain areas (the "no touching in the area covered by your bathing suit" is a good rule to use, and that includes the bottom).

Five is old enough for your son to start feeling soon that he's not comfortable with certain kinds of touch that didn't bother him at 3. And bear in mind that if son is not already in kindergarten, he will be soon, and it is important in school for kids to have a good understanding of what is appropriate touch and what isn't, both to protect themselves and to be sure they don't think what is modeled for them outside school is OK to do to others in play.

As for son himself telling grandpa to stop, your son is definitely old enough for you to say, "If you don't like someone, anyone, tickling you anywhere, dad and mom WANT you to say out loud, 'Please stop tickling me there, I don't like it.'" Rehearse it with him and role-play. Don't necessarily say, "Do this if grandpa tickles you," but do let son know that he can tell anyone -- even you or dad or grandpa or a sibling or friend -- to stop touching, tickling or otherwise bugging him!

[Anonymous]

This is simple.

If a person (any age) is touching your child (any age) in a way that makes you uncomfortable then say something. It doesn't matter if tickling is ok on some body parts but not others, or if tickling in general is bad--if you as a parent think it needs to stop, it does.

If your DH won't do it then you have to. You've gotten good advise here on what to say.

[Anonymous]

OP, it doesn't sounds like a big deal to me (I was raised in a family of bum pinchers) but if it bothers you you're within your rights to ask Grandpa to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We're not criminologists; we're parents. The thing for a parent to be concerned about is whether a behavior leaves a child more vulnerable to sexual abuse. And the child repeatedly seeing his mother and father *not* respond to an adult touching the private parts of his body does that.

As to whether Grandpa intends this outcome or not--we really have no information suggesting that Grandpa is innocent other than the fact that he has "Grandpa" as a name. Lotta people with their heads in the sand, here.

I guess assuming someone is innocent is wrong now too? I feel sorry that you guys feel the need to make everything sexual. There are a lot of kids that don't have a good male role model in their life, guess why?

Making all men out to be predators is not helpful to your children, or the men in your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're not criminologists; we're parents. The thing for a parent to be concerned about is whether a behavior leaves a child more vulnerable to sexual abuse. And the child repeatedly seeing his mother and father *not* respond to an adult touching the private parts of his body does that.

As to whether Grandpa intends this outcome or not--we really have no information suggesting that Grandpa is innocent other than the fact that he has "Grandpa" as a name. Lotta people with their heads in the sand, here.

I guess assuming someone is innocent is wrong now too? I feel sorry that you guys feel the need to make everything sexual. There are a lot of kids that don't have a good male role model in their life, guess why?

Making all men out to be predators is not helpful to your children, or the men in your life

Not sure why you're making this an "all men are predators" thing, the issue here is the behavior, not the fact that Grandpa is male.

[Anonymous]

Tell DH to handle it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're not criminologists; we're parents. The thing for a parent to be concerned about is whether a behavior leaves a child more vulnerable to sexual abuse. And the child repeatedly seeing his mother and father *not* respond to an adult touching the private parts of his body does that.

As to whether Grandpa intends this outcome or not--we really have no information suggesting that Grandpa is innocent other than the fact that he has "Grandpa" as a name. Lotta people with their heads in the sand, here.

I guess assuming someone is innocent is wrong now too? I feel sorry that you guys feel the need to make everything sexual. There are a lot of kids that don't have a good male role model in their life, guess why?

Making all men out to be predators is not helpful to your children, or the men in your life

Op. My son has great male role models who don't touch his rear end. I assume these male role models are innocent. It's not so black and white, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. He's 5. I tell him about not touching or allowing anyone to touch his private parts and all that. I noticed the butt tickling a while back on a family vacation, but I didn't say anything. Ds was maybe 3. I did tell my husband, but I don't think he ever addressed it with his dad. Then more recently, he was doing it again. It bothers me no end, and I felt like it's very confusing since I teach my son that nobody is allowed to touch his privates, and here I am allowing it. Pp, thank you so much for the script. Very helpful (in my head I was seeing myself blurt out "you don't touch kids butts, you dumbass.") Anyway, I'll have to think a little more about whether to also tell ds to say stop. I don't want to put that on him, but then again, he needs to know how to stand up for himself.

OP, new poster here. I agree with you that grandpa is out of line and you are right to want to end this. It is really about grandpa undermining the very basic lesson you are teaching your son about appropriate touch. Grandpa does not see the lesson (it wasn't really articulated in some earlier generations, so grandpa may just not get that it matters to you and DH--cut him that bit of slack but still, he needs to stop).

But why so vague on the following? "I did tell my husband, but I don't think he ever addressed it with his dad." Did you just point it out to your husband generally, or did you specifically ask DH to talk to his father to stop it at that time? Why no follow-up from you with DH or from DH back to you? Does DH tend to be deferential toward his dad, or not want to rock the boat with grandpa generally?

It is each parent's job to deal with his or her own family in cases like this, I believe. If you address this with your FIL yourself, especially as you seem to indicate in the initial post that you have other issues with FIL, your FIL may simply dismiss your concerns as prudish, helicoptering, etc. and keep doing what he sees as cute and harmless.

Your DH, not you, needs to talk to his father and needs to be direct and clear that DH -- not JUST you, DH himself -- is telling grandpa to stop. DH does not need to do a huge lecture or give a ton of reasons. He can be short and sweet: "Dad, I'm asking you to stop tickling Son on the butt. He's nearly in school now and too old for it, frankly. We are teaching him that no one, except a doctor or us, should touch him anywhere his bathing suit would cover. It's not personal or about you, it's about being certain we don't confuse him. I'm sure you'll respect this. Thanks." If grandpa fusses or fumes, DH needs to be able to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. This is not personal toward you. We are teaching Son some things I'm sure you wouldn't want to undermine." Calmly, every single time if grandpa carps about it. Then DH changes the topic every time too. If grandpa fumes at you and blames you for trying to "turn my grandson against me" or "treat me like an offender" or whatever.....Keep cool and just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. It's not personal" and refer him back to DH over and over if need be. I hope grandpa will just let it go and won't take it as a personal accusation.

Please talk clearly with your DH - that, not FIL, is your first conversation. Be sure DH is not going to go to his dad and roll his eyes and say, "DW is so uptight but she asked me to say this, so please just stop touching Son's butt so she'll get off my case" or anything like that. I truly hope your DH isn't that way. .

Script out what you'll say to your DH. You are right that grandpa's tickling of a kid as old as 5 in this way does undermine the message you're sending that only a doctor or mom or dad can touch your son in certain areas (the "no touching in the area covered by your bathing suit" is a good rule to use, and that includes the bottom).

Five is old enough for your son to start feeling soon that he's not comfortable with certain kinds of touch that didn't bother him at 3. And bear in mind that if son is not already in kindergarten, he will be soon, and it is important in school for kids to have a good understanding of what is appropriate touch and what isn't, both to protect themselves and to be sure they don't think what is modeled for them outside school is OK to do to others in play.

As for son himself telling grandpa to stop, your son is definitely old enough for you to say, "If you don't like someone, anyone, tickling you anywhere, dad and mom WANT you to say out loud, 'Please stop tickling me there, I don't like it.'" Rehearse it with him and role-play. Don't necessarily say, "Do this if grandpa tickles you," but do let son know that he can tell anyone -- even you or dad or grandpa or a sibling or friend -- to stop touching, tickling or otherwise bugging him!

Thank you for such a thoughtful reply.

DH does not want to rock the boat. When I told him about it last time, he didn't really say much at all, and it was just a very general conversation, and dh brushed it off. I'm ready to seriously have a conversation with him about it now. I like your script and suggestion to keep telling fil it's not personal.

I'm not sure if I should wait until it happens again, or talk to fil about it the next time we see him.