Is it important to have kids stay at your school through 5th grade?

[Anonymous]

Depends on your middle school feeder and your child's needs.
If you are not comfortable with your middle school feeder, then no, it is not important to to stay through 5th grade if it means missing the chance to lottery into a better option for your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so NOT important for your child to stay at his elementary school for 5th grade if it means a questionable middle school path.

5th grade is when students begin to shape their identity as a student and as a person separate from you and their family. Peer group, engagement and school environment through middle school is key to preventing drop-outs, substance abuse and attitudes about school going forward.

5th graders are also developmentally poised to think about and absorb abstract academic concepts that are rarely even introduced at most DCPS elementary schools which are structurally still stuck on trying to get PARCC scores up in reading and math. This is the time to challenge students and light a fire under their academic curiosity about the world. It is NOT the time to worry about them being safe and warm at their little neighborhood elementary school.

This is hard for first time parents who may think their 5the grader is still just a little kid. Your 10-11 year old is on the edge of a huge leap of maturity and independence. May happen over the summer. Puberty is nigh.

It's not a bad thing to keep your student at their elementary for 5th grade if your circumstances require it. It won't stunt them or slow them down ( probably ). But it is also a great thing to move them to a new environment and introduce them to new kinds of kids and friendships at this age.

I don't know if they are a shill or not, but child development wise, their statements about 5th graders are inaccurate.

Hello Charter Shill! How much do they pay you to post this stuff - Very creative, and plays to higher SES parent insecurities. Well played!

[Anonymous]

Dear DC families who may not know --
Kids from higher SES homes experience no loss of educational outcome when in school and classes with low-SES kids. HOWEVER, low SES kids perform better when they're in classes that are mixed.

SO - send your kids to public school. If you don't like the school, find your neighbors with the same goals and FIX IT! Despite what you think, the District will help you.

VanNess, Amidon, Tyler, Maury ... parents made it possible for the district to get good leaders and teachers in those schools.

My opinion - you don't get to brag (?) that you send your kids to public school if you shelter them with elite charter schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear DC families who may not know --
Kids from higher SES homes experience no loss of educational outcome when in school and classes with low-SES kids. HOWEVER, low SES kids perform better when they're in classes that are mixed.

SO - send your kids to public school. If you don't like the school, find your neighbors with the same goals and FIX IT! Despite what you think, the District will help you.

VanNess, Amidon, Tyler, Maury ... parents made it possible for the district to get good leaders and teachers in those schools.

My opinion - you don't get to brag (?) that you send your kids to public school if you shelter them with elite charter schools.

I am unaware of any 'elite' charter schools in DC. Please enlighten us so we can apply.

[Anonymous]

So GD annoying when some idiot drags up an old thread for no useful reason. Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so NOT important for your child to stay at his elementary school for 5th grade if it means a questionable middle school path.

5th grade is when students begin to shape their identity as a student and as a person separate from you and their family. Peer group, engagement and school environment through middle school is key to preventing drop-outs, substance abuse and attitudes about school going forward.

5th graders are also developmentally poised to think about and absorb abstract academic concepts that are rarely even introduced at most DCPS elementary schools which are structurally still stuck on trying to get PARCC scores up in reading and math. This is the time to challenge students and light a fire under their academic curiosity about the world. It is NOT the time to worry about them being safe and warm at their little neighborhood elementary school.

This is hard for first time parents who may think their 5the grader is still just a little kid. Your 10-11 year old is on the edge of a huge leap of maturity and independence. May happen over the summer. Puberty is nigh.

It's not a bad thing to keep your student at their elementary for 5th grade if your circumstances require it. It won't stunt them or slow them down ( probably ). But it is also a great thing to move them to a new environment and introduce them to new kinds of kids and friendships at this age.

Wow, this is not true. I remember 5th grade. I actually made a big jump from elementary school (the only school I had attended) to a new school (parents moved) and it was a horrible experience. There is a reason Jr. high used to start in 7th grade. then we moved it down to 6th and called it middle school. Now 5th?!

Because it's not true for you it's not true?

NP. I think if your child is average to above average from a higher me with engaged parents who value education, it would take a lot to have your children fail or have bad outcomes regardless of school. Parents overthink everything here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so NOT important for your child to stay at his elementary school for 5th grade if it means a questionable middle school path.

5th grade is when students begin to shape their identity as a student and as a person separate from you and their family. Peer group, engagement and school environment through middle school is key to preventing drop-outs, substance abuse and attitudes about school going forward.

5th graders are also developmentally poised to think about and absorb abstract academic concepts that are rarely even introduced at most DCPS elementary schools which are structurally still stuck on trying to get PARCC scores up in reading and math. This is the time to challenge students and light a fire under their academic curiosity about the world. It is NOT the time to worry about them being safe and warm at their little neighborhood elementary school.

This is hard for first time parents who may think their 5the grader is still just a little kid. Your 10-11 year old is on the edge of a huge leap of maturity and independence. May happen over the summer. Puberty is nigh.

It's not a bad thing to keep your student at their elementary for 5th grade if your circumstances require it. It won't stunt them or slow them down ( probably ). But it is also a great thing to move them to a new environment and introduce them to new kinds of kids and friendships at this age.

Wow, this is not true. I remember 5th grade. I actually made a big jump from elementary school (the only school I had attended) to a new school (parents moved) and it was a horrible experience. There is a reason Jr. high used to start in 7th grade. then we moved it down to 6th and called it middle school. Now 5th?!

Because it's not true for you it's not true?

NP. I think if your child is average to above average from a higher me with engaged parents who value education, it would take a lot to have your children fail or have bad outcomes regardless of school. Parents overthink everything here.

Higher Me= higher SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So GD annoying when some idiot drags up an old thread for no useful reason. Sheesh.

I don't mind this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

quite common at schools with big achievement gaps but mainly becuase there is no middle school. Capitol Hill Brent Elem is a good example. I think around 60% of the kids are gone after rth grade because they head to charters that start in 5th.

yup. Ross too. why would you go from an elementary school with one of the highest PARCC scores in the city to a path to Cardozo HS which has few kids performing at grade level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

quite common at schools with big achievement gaps but mainly becuase there is no middle school. Capitol Hill Brent Elem is a good example. I think around 60% of the kids are gone after rth grade because they head to charters that start in 5th.

yup. Ross too. why would you go from an elementary school with one of the highest PARCC scores in the city to a path to Cardozo HS which has few kids performing at grade level?

True, for many Ross parents, the problem isn't middle school (SWWFS is getting better and better). It's the lack of a guaranteed path to a good high school that encourages people to leave after 4th grade for Basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Is there data on this somewhere?

I vaguely recall my husband looking into this a few years ago and had found sources that said 3rd grade is the exodus grade because of when the standardized testing happens and the bulk of essential learning shifts from parents reading to kids at home as being the essential contributing factor to success to acquiring and building knowledge and analytical skills more from school. So far, all I could find is this study regarding third grade reading levels in D.C.

https://www.dcactionforchildren.org/sites/default/files/DCACTION_Trendsin3rdgrdReading_FINAL.pdf
"Third grade reading proficiency in the District has not improved between 2007 and 2014. In fact, our analysis indicates that there was actually a slight downward trend in reading proficiency between 2007 and 2014. However, while this change was statistically significant, it was small enough that it was not substantively meaningful. "

"While race/ethnicity itself does not influence academic achievement, it is deeply connected with socioeconomic status and opportunity in the District, where the racial achievement gaps are some of the widest in the country. Indeed, while 94 percent of white third grade students tested proficient or above in reading in 2014, the same was true for only 35 percent of black third graders and 36 percent of Hispanic third graders. Our analysis of weighted reading proficiency scores suggests a sobering trend: the proficiency rates of black third-grade students have actually declined over these years, while they have risen for white students. While Hispanic proficiency scores appeared to decline, our analysis did not find statistically significant evidence of this trend. Taken together, these results indicate that the racial literacy gap between black and white third graders in the District may have actually increased over the last eight years. "

"There is much debate around whether attending a charter or traditional public school leads to different academic outcomes for students.iv One common finding in much of the rigorous research on the subject has been that a wide range of school quality can be found in both charters and traditional public schools.8 This holds true in the District, as schools performing well above, and below, the city’s average can be found in both DC public schools and DC public charter schools. In 2014, both sectors had a similar reading proficiency rate: 43 percent for DCPS and 45 percent for charter schools. However, our analysis of weighted reading proficiency scores indicates a statistically significant downward trend in reading proficiency for DCPS students but no trend for charter students."



http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/curriculum/2016/03/3rd_grade_reading_scores_in_dc_show_no_improvement.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I mean is, how much does attrition or influx of new kids affect your kid's experience? Interested to hear from parents of older children.

I remember losing friends who moved far away but nobody else ever changed schools where I grew up, so I don't know if this will be an issue (assuming we stay at our child's match school). I imagine at DCPS this may be a bigger challenge, but even at charters there seems to be a lot of moving around.

It doesn't at HRCs such as LAMB and Yu Ying, because the vast majority stay, and there are no incoming students. So, it's unfortunate to see students leave, but there aren't many of them and it's not as if the classroom learning is disrupted by incoming students who aren't capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I mean is, how much does attrition or influx of new kids affect your kid's experience? Interested to hear from parents of older children.

I remember losing friends who moved far away but nobody else ever changed schools where I grew up, so I don't know if this will be an issue (assuming we stay at our child's match school). I imagine at DCPS this may be a bigger challenge, but even at charters there seems to be a lot of moving around.

It doesn't at HRCs such as LAMB and Yu Ying, because the vast majority stay, and there are no incoming students. So, it's unfortunate to see students leave, but there aren't many of them and it's not as if the classroom learning is disrupted by incoming students who aren't capable.

I feel like it bad actor to not let kids in at all levels-- I would be stunned if the DCPCSB continues to allow this in new charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I mean is, how much does attrition or influx of new kids affect your kid's experience? Interested to hear from parents of older children.

I remember losing friends who moved far away but nobody else ever changed schools where I grew up, so I don't know if this will be an issue (assuming we stay at our child's match school). I imagine at DCPS this may be a bigger challenge, but even at charters there seems to be a lot of moving around.

It doesn't at HRCs such as LAMB and Yu Ying, because the vast majority stay, and there are no incoming students. So, it's unfortunate to see students leave, but there aren't many of them and it's not as if the classroom learning is disrupted by incoming students who aren't capable.

I feel like it bad actor to not let kids in at all levels-- I would be stunned if the DCPCSB continues to allow this in new charters.

They haven't allowed it in many years. YY and LAMB were founded and got this provision approved a long time ago. LAMB was actually authorized by the old DC School Board (since disbanded), not the PCSB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear DC families who may not know --
Kids from higher SES homes experience no loss of educational outcome when in school and classes with low-SES kids. HOWEVER, low SES kids perform better when they're in classes that are mixed.

SO - send your kids to public school. If you don't like the school, find your neighbors with the same goals and FIX IT! Despite what you think, the District will help you.

VanNess, Amidon, Tyler, Maury ... parents made it possible for the district to get good leaders and teachers in those schools.

My opinion - you don't get to brag (?) that you send your kids to public school if you shelter them with elite charter schools.

That's only true within a certain percentage range. As in, once the low-SES student range gets above 25-30%, the academic quality of the school goes down for everyone. Yes, even the higher-SES children.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourself why 40% FARMS qualifies a school for free lunches for everyone.

Bottom line is that FARMS don't harm higher SES students as long as they're low numbers. Above 20% start to pay attention. Above 25-30 they can have an impact on school culture.