Is it important to have kids stay at your school through 5th grade?

[Anonymous]

What I mean is, how much does attrition or influx of new kids affect your kid's experience? Interested to hear from parents of older children.

I remember losing friends who moved far away but nobody else ever changed schools where I grew up, so I don't know if this will be an issue (assuming we stay at our child's match school). I imagine at DCPS this may be a bigger challenge, but even at charters there seems to be a lot of moving around.

[Anonymous]

It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

[Anonymous]

The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Is there data on this somewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Is there data on this somewhere?

Here's an OSSE report from 2015 that looked at 3 years of data. 92% of students stayed at the same school.

https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/OSSE%20Mobility%20Report%20July%202015.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Exactly. It doesn't matter the citywide number. Some schools have great retention but others do not. Losing a large proportion of the above-grade-level kids may not be a large number in absolute terms, but it is a body blow academically and socially if those were your child's closest friends and academic peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Exactly. It doesn't matter the citywide number. Some schools have great retention but others do not. Losing a large proportion of the above-grade-level kids may not be a large number in absolute terms, but it is a body blow academically and socially if those were your child's closest friends and academic peers.

And those kids often have younger siblings. So losing a 5th grader to the burbs or whatever may also cost you some 2nd and 3rd graders, pulling down the academics in those grades and taking out a high-income family from the fundraising pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Is there data on this somewhere?

Here is the DCPS data from 2015: http://wamu.org/story/16/03/02/5th_grade_dropoff/

Brent, Ross, and CHM@L each lost most of their 4th graders.

The following schools lost between a quarter and a half:

Browne EC
Key ES
Thomson ES
Stoddert ES
Wheatley EC
Malcolm X ES @ Green
Maury ES
Whittier EC
Randle Highlands ES
C.W. Harris ES
Houston ES
LaSalle-Backus EC
Tyler ES
Plummer ES
Watkins ES
School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
Hyde-Addison ES
Walker-Jones EC
Leckie ES
Powell ES
Garfield ES
Savoy ES
Aiton ES
Raymond EC

And that is just between 4th and 5th grade. Some of those schools will back fill or have new kids move into the area. Some do a combined 4th and 5th grade, or just have fewer 5th grade classes.

One solution to this is to end the OOB feed so people aren't switching elementary schools for the chance to get into better middle schools. Another is to restrict charters so they can't start in 5th--make them start in either PK3, 3rd, 6th, or 9th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DME cross sector task force looked at this issue and the data found that the overwhelming majority of children leaving DC schools at all grades are leaving the city altogether.

I think there's a lot of movement at a few schools that get a lot of attention here, but the data simply do not support the 'mass exodus' narrative.

It probably feels like a mass exodus though if you are at one of those schools.

Is there data on this somewhere?

Here is the DCPS data from 2015: http://wamu.org/story/16/03/02/5th_grade_dropoff/

Brent, Ross, and CHM@L each lost most of their 4th graders.

The following schools lost between a quarter and a half:

Browne EC
Key ES
Thomson ES
Stoddert ES
Wheatley EC
Malcolm X ES @ Green
Maury ES
Whittier EC
Randle Highlands ES
C.W. Harris ES
Houston ES
LaSalle-Backus EC
Tyler ES
Plummer ES
Watkins ES
School Without Walls @ Francis-Stevens
Hyde-Addison ES
Walker-Jones EC
Leckie ES
Powell ES
Garfield ES
Savoy ES
Aiton ES
Raymond EC

And that is just between 4th and 5th grade. Some of those schools will back fill or have new kids move into the area. Some do a combined 4th and 5th grade, or just have fewer 5th grade classes.

One solution to this is to end the OOB feed so people aren't switching elementary schools for the chance to get into better middle schools. Another is to restrict charters so they can't start in 5th--make them start in either PK3, 3rd, 6th, or 9th.

You can't solve this unless everyone agrees it is a problem.

Choice is deeply embedded into the schools in DC. Before charters that choice was exercised within DCPS schools by seeking OOB slots or a seat at an application high school. Now the charter system has added more choice.

If you are zoned for a bad DCPS school -- which most of us are -- you will fight tooth and nail against anything that would take choices away.

The cross sector task force looked at this over several months, and in the end decided it was not significant enough an issue to warrant the kinds of 'solutions' you mention. They did recommend some changes to allow and incentivize charters to take students mid-year, and to create additional choice options for students in hardship cases.

[Anonymous]

It is so NOT important for your child to stay at his elementary school for 5th grade if it means a questionable middle school path.

5th grade is when students begin to shape their identity as a student and as a person separate from you and their family. Peer group, engagement and school environment through middle school is key to preventing drop-outs, substance abuse and attitudes about school going forward.

5th graders are also developmentally poised to think about and absorb abstract academic concepts that are rarely even introduced at most DCPS elementary schools which are structurally still stuck on trying to get PARCC scores up in reading and math. This is the time to challenge students and light a fire under their academic curiosity about the world. It is NOT the time to worry about them being safe and warm at their little neighborhood elementary school.

This is hard for first time parents who may think their 5the grader is still just a little kid. Your 10-11 year old is on the edge of a huge leap of maturity and independence. May happen over the summer. Puberty is nigh.

It's not a bad thing to keep your student at their elementary for 5th grade if your circumstances require it. It won't stunt them or slow them down ( probably ). But it is also a great thing to move them to a new environment and introduce them to new kinds of kids and friendships at this age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

quite common at schools with big achievement gaps but mainly becuase there is no middle school. Capitol Hill Brent Elem is a good example. I think around 60% of the kids are gone after rth grade because they head to charters that start in 5th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

quite common at schools with big achievement gaps but mainly becuase there is no middle school. Capitol Hill Brent Elem is a good example. I think around 60% of the kids are gone after rth grade because they head to charters that start in 5th.

Well that seems silly that charters start in 5th. When most elementary schools also go up to 5th. I thought middle school was 6-7-8 grade for a reason. At least it should be consistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is so NOT important for your child to stay at his elementary school for 5th grade if it means a questionable middle school path.

5th grade is when students begin to shape their identity as a student and as a person separate from you and their family. Peer group, engagement and school environment through middle school is key to preventing drop-outs, substance abuse and attitudes about school going forward.

5th graders are also developmentally poised to think about and absorb abstract academic concepts that are rarely even introduced at most DCPS elementary schools which are structurally still stuck on trying to get PARCC scores up in reading and math. This is the time to challenge students and light a fire under their academic curiosity about the world. It is NOT the time to worry about them being safe and warm at their little neighborhood elementary school.

This is hard for first time parents who may think their 5the grader is still just a little kid. Your 10-11 year old is on the edge of a huge leap of maturity and independence. May happen over the summer. Puberty is nigh.

It's not a bad thing to keep your student at their elementary for 5th grade if your circumstances require it. It won't stunt them or slow them down ( probably ). But it is also a great thing to move them to a new environment and introduce them to new kinds of kids and friendships at this age.

Wow, this is not true. I remember 5th grade. I actually made a big jump from elementary school (the only school I had attended) to a new school (parents moved) and it was a horrible experience. There is a reason Jr. high used to start in 7th grade. then we moved it down to 6th and called it middle school. Now 5th?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the people leaving are typically higher SES and better academic performers. So if people don't stay, the 5th grade class will not have as many on grade level kids and your child may not be challenged. Losing a lot of kids in 4th and 5th makes it hard for the school to offer a good array of activities for that age group (band, sports). The driving factor is likely concern about middle school quality. Also, your child may miss friends and feel left out if a lot of former classmates are elsewhere together.

So is this quite common? Is there a mass exodus at that grade level in many schools? If so, yuck.

quite common at schools with big achievement gaps but mainly becuase there is no middle school. Capitol Hill Brent Elem is a good example. I think around 60% of the kids are gone after rth grade because they head to charters that start in 5th.

Well that seems silly that charters start in 5th. When most elementary schools also go up to 5th. I thought middle school was 6-7-8 grade for a reason. At least it should be consistent.

When the first charters started middle school at 5th, most of DCPS was on the K-8th model.

The two most often mentioned, Latin and BASIS believe they need to do it to basically get all students on an equal footing before the more meaty part of middle school starts at 6th. When you have children coming in from a bunch of different schools, with different curriculums, this makes sense.

In a world where everyone is in DCPS and uses a common curriculum for 1st-5th, it makes less sense.