B Students at St Albans and NCS - where end up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 3.7 from my HS was an A- average. Is that what we're talking about? If so, I was unhooked, but with a perfect 2400 SAT, and got into one of HYP early with that GPA (which put me at just below the top 1/3rd of my class, for context). I had other good things on my resume, obviously, but nothing that would remotely qualify as a "hook." (White female with lawyer parents from NYC.)

A 3.7, perfect Sats, no hooks won't get you into HYP today. You'd be very lucky to get into one top 10, and two or three more in the 10-25 range.

I just graduated. I realize it gets harder every year, but the process has not changed entirely in 5 years. I thought I wouldn't get into HYP to be honest, but my guidance counselor approved my list of H/Y/P, H/Y/P, Brown, MIT, UChicago and Michigan without concern (we're only allowed to apply to 5 privates), so clearly didn't share your doom and gloom philosophy. I came from a very competitive HS that sends about 15-20 to HYPS every year, FWIW.

Which school limits your applications to only 5 private colleges?

Not PP, but quite a few private schools limit kids to a certain number of applications. (At some schools its a hard limit, at some it only applies to privates, at some it applies to privates + OOS publics, at some it applies unless you get an FA waiver... There are different approaches, but they basically don't want the top few students just applying everywhere for bragging rights and/or so they don't have to bother "figuring it all out until later." In NYC, some public magnets also do this. Hunter used to limit to 5 or 6 private apps and now I think it's 8 but it includes OOS publics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sense is that once one gets beyond the top 1/3 or so of the class, you see more kids attending SLAC and fewer going to large universities.

At the point it seems to depend on whether the kid has a mix of As and Bs or closer to straight Bs.

The A/B kids seem to attend many of the mid-range NEAC colleges (e.g., not Williams and Amherst or Trinity or Conn. Coll.) or Kenyon or Oberlin. If they attend a university it may be Michigan, Tulane, Boston College, Wake Forest, etc.

The straight B kids seem to attend well-regarded, but not top SLACs. Think Dickinson, Gettysburg, Trinity Connecticut College. If they attend a university, it might be BU, Wisconsin, or Northeastern. I.e., sold B students with decent scores get into solid schools.

Define a "solid" school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sense is that once one gets beyond the top 1/3 or so of the class, you see more kids attending SLAC and fewer going to large universities.

At the point it seems to depend on whether the kid has a mix of As and Bs or closer to straight Bs.

The A/B kids seem to attend many of the mid-range NEAC colleges (e.g., not Williams and Amherst or Trinity or Conn. Coll.) or Kenyon or Oberlin. If they attend a university it may be Michigan, Tulane, Boston College, Wake Forest, etc.

The straight B kids seem to attend well-regarded, but not top SLACs. Think Dickinson, Gettysburg, Trinity Connecticut College. If they attend a university, it might be BU, Wisconsin, or Northeastern. I.e., sold B students with decent scores get into solid schools.

Do your homework.... You can not get into Tulane University with a B average! 30 ACT, 3.6 GPA plus to be looked at.

Both kids who went to Tulane from my school in my year had B averages. You cannot make broad statements about GPA without taking the quality of the school into account. Yes, from a standard suburban public, you're not getting into Tulane with a 3.6; from St A/NCS? You definitely have a shot.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP that the high school matters a lot when considering GPA especially for private colleges. The kids from NCS who are going to Tulane are definitely B students. I suspect they all have 30 plus ACT scores. My daughter who is above a B student had Tulane as a safety. STA kid who we know well who had a 3.5 and high test scores is choosing between UC Berkley and GA Tech. NCS kid with about a 3.7 and a C senior year choosing between Wash U and Carnegie-Mellon engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with PP that the high school matters a lot when considering GPA especially for private colleges. The kids from NCS who are going to Tulane are definitely B students. I suspect they all have 30 plus ACT scores. My daughter who is above a B student had Tulane as a safety. STA kid who we know well who had a 3.5 and high test scores is choosing between UC Berkley and GA Tech. NCS kid with about a 3.7 and a C senior year choosing between Wash U and Carnegie-Mellon engineering.

Exactly. The "you need a 3.6 and a 30 ACT" is a giveaway that the poster is only thinking in terms of a non-selective public HS. At my school, the average SAT score last year was 1430 and average ACT was 33. (I do think the ACT score is slightly inflated relative to the SAT because people really only take it if they think they'll do better on it than they did/would on the SAT, so it's a somewhat self-selecting cohort.) People with 3.0s routinely have 30s on the ACTs.

[Anonymous]

I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

As the father of an STA grad, I totally agree. My son was an average student academically at STA. It prepared him well for college. It seems unlikely to me that he would have gotten great grades at his local public school. He's doing a lot better at his excellent SLAC than he did at STA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sense is that once one gets beyond the top 1/3 or so of the class, you see more kids attending SLAC and fewer going to large universities.

At the point it seems to depend on whether the kid has a mix of As and Bs or closer to straight Bs.

The A/B kids seem to attend many of the mid-range NEAC colleges (e.g., not Williams and Amherst or Trinity or Conn. Coll.) or Kenyon or Oberlin. If they attend a university it may be Michigan, Tulane, Boston College, Wake Forest, etc.

The straight B kids seem to attend well-regarded, but not top SLACs. Think Dickinson, Gettysburg, Trinity Connecticut College. If they attend a university, it might be BU, Wisconsin, or Northeastern. I.e., sold B students with decent scores get into solid schools.

Do your homework.... You can not get into Tulane University with a B average! 30 ACT, 3.6 GPA plus to be looked at.

Both kids who went to Tulane from my school in my year had B averages. You cannot make broad statements about GPA without taking the quality of the school into account. Yes, from a standard suburban public, you're not getting into Tulane with a 3.6; from St A/NCS? You definitely have a shot.

+1 - Tulane alum who graduated from an elite prep (quaker) school in Philadelphia

[Anonymous]

SMU

[Anonymous]

College admissions officers know that a B at these schools is not the same as a B from the average high school. I wouldn't worry for a second.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

No bottom 1/2 is bottom 1/2. The name of the high school just does not matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

No bottom 1/2 is bottom 1/2. The name of the high school just does not matter.

Keep telling yourself that.

Bottom half kids at Big 3s routinely get into NESCACs, big state schools like UVA and Wisconsin, and excellent midsize schools like Wake, Tulane and Emory. That ain't happening at your kids public....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

No bottom 1/2 is bottom 1/2. The name of the high school just does not matter.

Keep telling yourself that.

Bottom half kids at Big 3s routinely get into NESCACs, big state schools like UVA and Wisconsin, and excellent midsize schools like Wake, Tulane and Emory. That ain't happening at your kids public....

Agree with above. I have had kids at 2 of the Big 3. I think as someone above has stated, these top academic private schools benefit the bottom half students more than the top students, who would do well anywhere.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure the private colleges want the private school kids because those are the parents most willing to pay full price for the name brand. We

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this often is hard for folks to wrap their heads around, but it's the bottom half of the class at top high schools that are helped the most by their "HS pedigree" at college application time. A "B student" from STA is prepared to do the work at Tulane -- and Tulane knows it. And the Tulane admissions office wants to maintain its relationship with the STA college guidance office. So that student gets in. Same kid, same grades, same scores from good suburban public doesn't get in (because, as far as Tulane knows, he might or might not be prepared to do the work and because there's no relationship to preserve).

That's why the advice that "average performers" in top private schools should switch to public for college admission purposes almost always is terrible. Average performers at top schools generally don't become "stars" at less competitive schools -- they typically dial back their effort and earn about the same grades. And then Tulane is off the table and they're staring down the barrel of Alabama.

Would you say the same for TJ as well? It is a public school but ranked above most of the privates out there.