Tired of the DC thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

less favorable for what? getting into college and having a successful life? or getting into Harvard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

less favorable for what? getting into college and having a successful life? or getting into Harvard?

Overall outcomes. I came from a rural high school filled with the local processing plant workers. 75% graduation rate,maybe 50% go to college, and this is best high school in county. Many bright kids fell into wrong crowd and spent their 20s in a drug induced haze and end up working as pet shop groomers in their 40s. When the majority culture of a schools football and drunken parties in the woods, it can definitely overcome parental direction. It's not a death sentence but why stack the deck so you can take it easy? And I did leave this school for Ivy League, and I was behind all four years, but I studied science probably easier to catch up for high school when majoring in English or business, especially if your parents were in the field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of people who make an active choice walk away from the DC thing - to Portland (both of them - ME and OR), research triangle, florida, texas, Norfolk, Richmond, Charlottesville.... Lots of people who move to other big cities, but those don't really count for this discussion.

We did it once (jobs brought us back to DC) but are putting the pieces in place to do it again. Sometimes, my friends have pretty good jobs here (say, duel feds) but not good enough that they'll ever get ahead and not good enough that they are so committed to that path. So they just blanket a new area with resumes and move 6 months later. My husband and I both have very good jobs that would be harder to walk away from, so both times we moved involved years of, as we call it, dropping breadcrumbs to get where we want to be. In our situation, it will probably ultimately involve my husband staying in his senior exec role but working from home (because his only real face time requirements are with clients, who are all over the world) and me probably either consulting or doing something else totally new. The col difference is so outrageous and my husband will still have a high income, so really we don't need my income at all after we move (we only need half of his) so we figure we can always make something work.

One problem we had the first time we did this: you find the random unicorn awesome job in this desireable area with low COL. But then 3 years later, the job isn't that great and you're ready to move on. But there are no other good jobs in your new town. So you're stuck. We lived in an amazing region where tons of people like to move for a better life, and many of our friends were former DC people, but we all struggled with this.

One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

less favorable for what? getting into college and having a successful life? or getting into Harvard?

Overall outcomes. I came from a rural high school filled with the local processing plant workers. 75% graduation rate,maybe 50% go to college, and this is best high school in county. Many bright kids fell into wrong crowd and spent their 20s in a drug induced haze and end up working as pet shop groomers in their 40s. When the majority culture of a schools football and drunken parties in the woods, it can definitely overcome parental direction. It's not a death sentence but why stack the deck so you can take it easy? And I did leave this school for Ivy League, and I was behind all four years, but I studied science probably easier to catch up for high school when majoring in English or business, especially if your parents were in the field.

I think that there may be school districts in the country that fall somewhere between what you experienced and MoCo, Fairfax. Moving away from DC doesn't have to equal bad schools.

[Anonymous]

I had been thinking about this -- I even worked to find a job at my current salary in a much lower cost of living area. With the equity from our house, we could purchase a nice house in that area (central FL) mortgage free.

But then, I started looking at the bigger picture: the things I like about this area. We live in Vienna; the amenities include great schools, Wolf Trap (we go 5-6 times per year), good food, and a sense of community. Plus, very good to excellent state school options (Va Tech, William and Mary and UVA).

In FL, I would have a nicer house. And I would not have winter, but summer -- almost every day -- would be unbearable. Schools are mediocre at best; private schools would cost close to what my mortgage costs now. And, it is a cultural wasteland. Here, we go to the Smithsonian, there, they go mudding. The location I would move to is Trump country. I am an ethnic minority (religion), and do not want my daughter to have to experience the antisemitism I did as a kid living in the south (father was military).

The final straw was when I realized there was only one place I could work: one agency that would hire me. And I would be just about the highest paid person in that organization. If anything went south, I would have to take a huge pay cut. And raises would probably be done.

So, maybe it depends where you live, what you do, and what you want to do, but I realized I have a pretty damn good life here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

There was maybe one farming family in my graduating class. If you want your kid to succeed, don't let them hang out with the losers, set expectations and encourage them to do their best. For the poster that brought up drugs - they are everywhere. The difference is in the rich schools, parents can afford better lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

I posted earlier about being ready to make an escape but this is something I struggle with. It's not just the stability and good pay, it's all that with a job I love in public service, which is important to me. But spending time with my kids also is important to me, and I hate living in unwalkable neighborhoods with a long commute. Sometimes I think I could be perfectly happy being a secretary for the local dentist in some small New England town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been living in the DC area for 10 years, working at a large gov contractor. Lately I've been getting tired of doing the "DC thing"--you know, paying a large amount of money for a small, old house with mediocre schools, huge day care costs, commuting, corporate rat race, and going after gov contracts year after year. The thought of doing this for another 20 to 25 years until I retire depresses me a lot.

I have been spending a lot of time fantasizing about having a different kind of life--maybe owing my own business and living in a different place. Unfortunately, I have basically been doing the same thing my entire career and feel I don't know how to do anything else. Maybe I'm just going through a mid life crisis? Has anyone successfully broken away from the DC thing? How did you take the first step?

Anecdote alert, but I know a handful of friends who ended up doing this (breaking out of DC-Gov Consulting, namely). For them, it boiled down to a test of willpower and willingness to leave the comfort zone. Save some change and make the jump. If you hesitate or get cold feet more often than not, you'll probably never make the jump.

Those friends are now in a variety of industries, vaguely related to their work here in Washington. One in Pharma in northern NJ, one in commercial RE in Richmond (this guy actually just picked up and left DC without anything lined up), and two of them left to start their own small consulting firm in Boston (they are doing moderately well). You really just need to be willing to take a risk and commit to it.

If you don't like the DC rat race, Boston is not going to be much better.

I'm considering a job in Boston - but I don't feel like it gets me to any better quality of life (although it will put me closer to family). I'd actually probably have a longer commute to afford anything decent. UGH

Where in the city is your job? What I find about Boston is the decent/ affordable areas aren't just concentric circles away from the center/ jobs aren't all in the center like it is here. I don't know if I am describing that well, but I guess I mean you don't have to go out to a certain "ring" distance away from the city, you can find things in pockets around the general metro area that are both swanky and affordable depending on where you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

I posted earlier about being ready to make an escape but this is something I struggle with. It's not just the stability and good pay, it's all that with a job I love in public service, which is important to me. But spending time with my kids also is important to me, and I hate living in unwalkable neighborhoods with a long commute. Sometimes I think I could be perfectly happy being a secretary for the local dentist in some small New England town.

PP, honestly I've been looking at jobs in Fairfax and Arlington Counties lately because I too am drawn to public service but I feel like its a place where I can point to something I actually can get done that HELPS someone, in a real and more immediate sense. Just saying that the national scale is not the only way to effect change, if anything I feel like my friends who work at the state level in various states are really hustling for the people more than I ever have.

[Anonymous]

"Less good jobs"?? Really? I think you mean " fewer" though it's hard to tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

I posted earlier about being ready to make an escape but this is something I struggle with. It's not just the stability and good pay, it's all that with a job I love in public service, which is important to me. But spending time with my kids also is important to me, and I hate living in unwalkable neighborhoods with a long commute. Sometimes I think I could be perfectly happy being a secretary for the local dentist in some small New England town.

PP, honestly I've been looking at jobs in Fairfax and Arlington Counties lately because I too am drawn to public service but I feel like its a place where I can point to something I actually can get done that HELPS someone, in a real and more immediate sense. Just saying that the national scale is not the only way to effect change, if anything I feel like my friends who work at the state level in various states are really hustling for the people more than I ever have.

This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had been thinking about this -- I even worked to find a job at my current salary in a much lower cost of living area. With the equity from our house, we could purchase a nice house in that area (central FL) mortgage free.

But then, I started looking at the bigger picture: the things I like about this area. We live in Vienna; the amenities include great schools, Wolf Trap (we go 5-6 times per year), good food, and a sense of community. Plus, very good to excellent state school options (Va Tech, William and Mary and UVA).

In FL, I would have a nicer house. And I would not have winter, but summer -- almost every day -- would be unbearable. Schools are mediocre at best; private schools would cost close to what my mortgage costs now. And, it is a cultural wasteland. Here, we go to the Smithsonian, there, they go mudding. The location I would move to is Trump country. I am an ethnic minority (religion), and do not want my daughter to have to experience the antisemitism I did as a kid living in the south (father was military).

The final straw was when I realized there was only one place I could work: one agency that would hire me. And I would be just about the highest paid person in that organization. If anything went south, I would have to take a huge pay cut. And raises would probably be done.

So, maybe it depends where you live, what you do, and what you want to do, but I realized I have a pretty damn good life here.

I'm PP from rural HS with 75% graduation rate. I am from central FL, you made a very wise decision!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

There was maybe one farming family in my graduating class. If you want your kid to succeed, don't let them hang out with the losers, set expectations and encourage them to do their best. For the poster that brought up drugs - they are everywhere. The difference is in the rich schools, parents can afford better lawyers.

1) so who exactly made up your graduating class if not farmers? Farm hands and meat packing workers? And most kids went to college, that's quite a school, where was it!
2) how old are your kids? By teens telling them to not 'hang out with loser' is a battle you may not win unless you clamp down their lives and supervise them every minute.

[Anonymous]

OP, can you scope out your Plan B? I did - took a week of vacation to tour the area after months of research and reading and emails and after visiting knew it wasn't for me at all. It also really helped with the mental gymnastics I was doing to myself. I still want to move someday, but I feel more realistic about it now.