Ugly mom with pretty daughter - help me

[Anonymous]

Give her "the gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. Seriously, a MUST READ.

As a young woman, i have mastered the art of looking tough and intimidating out in public. If I pass a sketchy looking individual, I acknowledge him by making fleeting eye contact, just enough to let him know "i see you, I know who you are, you cannot come up on me and surprise me."

But seriously. Gift of Fear. Get it today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First: no man worth his salt should be eyeing/following/commenting on any woman publicly and especially not one under 18.

Second: teens should be more careful to dress appropriately for their age. I see so many girls wearing mid -thigh mini skirts and I tell myself I'd never let my daughter out of the house in that.

I'm the OP. My DD was wearing skinny jeans, Nikes, and a striped t-shirt that was baggy and went past the openings of her jeans pockets. She was not flirting with anyone, because she doesn't know how to flirt yet. Your post seems to blame the victim.

Not saying anything about your DD, but some of our "perfect angel" daughters are deserving of some blame for throwing taste and modesty out the window and dressing like sluts.

Nice try, troll.

[Anonymous]

I got a lot of unwanted attention as a teenager because I had/have big boobs. I learned to put on what we now call "resting bitch face," and to register no response at all when catcalled. These idiots want to get your attention, and if you don't give it to them they generally move on. I also learned how to pay attention to what was going on around me without making eye contact with anyone I was concerned about. All of those are good skills.

Although it's satisfying to make some sort of snappy come back to a harasser (and I have done that in situations where I felt reasonably safe), I wouldn't recommend that for a young teen. Ignore, and get out of the situation as quickly as possible. Sadly, this means that there may be times when you are treating a friendly person as a threat. Better safe than sorry.

[Anonymous]

The one additional suggestion I have along with the rest of this excellent advice is to teach her to raise her voice when she's saying "no" or "leave me alone." It's hard when scared but drawing unwanted attention to the harasser is a good way to get him to move along.

Thanks for the rec on the book to the PPs. I'm going to check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You need to help her think out what she would do if the situation turned. Where does she go? Make sure she knows she can walk into an office building and ask the desk for help. Make sure she knows which homes in your neighborhood are safe. Make sure she knows that she can pretend to walk up to a home that isn't her's and get her keys out like she lives there. Make sure she knows she does not have to be polite but it is better not to engage.

I agree. You shouldn't have suggested the guy was just going in the same direction she was. That's rationalizing away her instinct that something was off. You both might benefit from reading the Gift of Fear.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Very important for her to learn to trust her instincts. When in doubt, she needs to do what it takes to feel safe.

https://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466442143&sr=8-1&keywords=gift+of+fear

First chapter:

https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/becker-fear.html

[Anonymous]

NP. I would add that she should learn how to look purposeful and confident when she's out and about, like she knows where she is going when she's walking down the street (even if she doesn't). This may be more of a general safety tip, but IME, men are more apt to notice you and engage if you look lost or unsure of yourself.

I would also echo the PPs who said that she needs to learn that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone who tries to engage with her. This can be hard for some teens and young women (it was for me at that age). And be firm in shutting down the unwanted conversation/advance: "no thanks" or "I'm not interested". If there is any wiggle room, these kind of men will find it and try to persuade her or use it to engage further.

If she ever has a gut instinct that something is off, she needs to trust it. Do not explain the situation away because she will doubt her instincts the next time. In high school, a group of guys followed a friend and I as we were driving home from the movies. At first I wasn't entirely sure they were following us and I was just going to drive home, but then they started pulling up along side of us and trying to get our attention. This was in the days before cell phones so we couldn't just call 911 from the car. They would not leave us alone so I drove to the police station instead of driving to my house. I didn't want them to know where I lived. Once I got near the police station, they drove away. You just never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women always talk about being harassed on the street, cat-calling, etc. That has never happened to me. I am ugly. But I have a pretty 13 yr old who is now going places on her own around town, and sometimes she is harassed. I am not really sure what to tell her. Yesterday she was meeting me at work and told me a man followed her for two blocks. I suggested maybe he was just going in the same direction, since they were on a major street many people travel on.

What do I tell her? Ignore? Call them out? Call the police? One time she told me that a man kept trying to flirt with her so she finally told him she was a lesbian so he'd leave her alone. Was this a good idea since it worked, even though she lied? I just have zero experience in this area.

First you need to tell her that in trying to soothe her, you lied about the guy following her. She isn't crazy - he WAS following her, and she needs to know her instinct was correct. Also, tell her not to tell people she is a lesbian - unfortunately, there are some crazies out there that will take this as a challenge. I would get her into some type of martial arts/self defense classes. Also, don't teach her to give out the wrong number. Teach her to give out her number and then block - these days, crazy ass people wil immediately call the number to see if it is correct. You basically need to teach her what she needs to do to get home safely.

No, don't do this. She should shut down the conversation and get out of the situation. She can say "no thanks, I don't give my number out" or something like that.

[Anonymous]

There are lots of good ideas here and lots of different strategies that you can share with her. The key thing is that she needs to trust her gut instinct and figure out the best approach for that particular situation. It's her judgment call based on everything that is going on. Let me say this: it is 100% percent okay to lie. Okay to lie about EVERYTHING. Name. Number. Pretend to talk to a boyfriend over the phone.

Some girls feel comfortable being more assertive and flat out rejecting men. I personally find this approach a bit risky because some men's egos bruise easily and they can come back at you with violence. But if that works for you, that works for you. I, on the other hand, tend to take the smile, deflect, and take cover under another male approach. And by "take cover under another male", I mean, you say -- I have a boyfriend. I have a husband. I am going to meet my father. That sort of thing. (I get that this approach is following in the same oppressive patriarchy mold. But, in my experience, it works well.)

Stay in public so that you are around others. If necessary, take a detour into a public place or a store. Obviously, if the situation warrants it, she can call the cops.

But, it's always a judgment call. There's no one solution. You have to assess where you are, how safe you are, and how dangerous the guy is. And what is the best approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are lots of good ideas here and lots of different strategies that you can share with her. The key thing is that she needs to trust her gut instinct and figure out the best approach for that particular situation. It's her judgment call based on everything that is going on. Let me say this: it is 100% percent okay to lie. Okay to lie about EVERYTHING. Name. Number. Pretend to talk to a boyfriend over the phone.

Some girls feel comfortable being more assertive and flat out rejecting men. I personally find this approach a bit risky because some men's egos bruise easily and they can come back at you with violence. But if that works for you, that works for you. I, on the other hand, tend to take the smile, deflect, and take cover under another male approach. And by "take cover under another male", I mean, you say -- I have a boyfriend. I have a husband. I am going to meet my father. That sort of thing. (I get that this approach is following in the same oppressive patriarchy mold. But, in my experience, it works well.)

Stay in public so that you are around others. If necessary, take a detour into a public place or a store. Obviously, if the situation warrants it, she can call the cops.

But, it's always a judgment call. There's no one solution. You have to assess where you are, how safe you are, and how dangerous the guy is. And what is the best approach.

I agree with most of this, especially learning how to assess the situation. I disagree with the lying - that can lead to more trouble. I personally KNOW people that have given out the wrong number and then been cornered/assaulted/whatever because the guy immediately called on a cell phone and then got irrationally angry when he found out it was the wrong number. It is easy enough to answer her phone and then block the person's number permanently when she walks off. It isn't worth giving out a wrong number - if she doesn't want to give out her number, she can say that she is 13 and is not allowed to give her number out. Don't lie about basic stuff - people KNOW you are lying.

Gah - I hate that we even have to have this back and forth. I guess the takeaway really is that there is really no one way to handle this, and your daughter will have to figure out what she is comfortable doing/saying - the confidence will radiate and repel.

[Anonymous]

I got more catcalling and unwanted attention when I was in my tweens and early teens than I ever did as an adult. That's so creepy to think about.

Anyway, what has always worked best for me is ignoring them - not responding at all, politely or otherwise, and continuing on my way. Any sort of engagement or acknowledgement, even a "not interested" or "please leave me alone," just seems to result in more harassment (in my experience).

Of course, if she feels threatened, she should absolutely trust her instincts and do whatever it takes to get away from the guy and to a safe place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First: no man worth his salt should be eyeing/following/commenting on any woman publicly and especially not one under 18.

Second: teens should be more careful to dress appropriately for their age. I see so many girls wearing mid -thigh mini skirts and I tell myself I'd never let my daughter out of the house in that.

I'm the OP. My DD was wearing skinny jeans, Nikes, and a striped t-shirt that was baggy and went past the openings of her jeans pockets. She was not flirting with anyone, because she doesn't know how to flirt yet. Your post seems to blame the victim.

Not saying anything about your DD, but some of our "perfect angel" daughters are deserving of some blame for throwing taste and modesty out the window and dressing like sluts.

No, they are not

[doodlebug]

It's important that she understand to trust her gut but also not to become paranoid that every man walking in the same direction is following her, because they're not. Have her duck into a store or business of some kind if she feels like she needs help. Also have her keep her phone on her and never let the battery get so low it dies because then it's useless.

[Anonymous]

Why would you call yourself ugly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have literally never had unwanted attention in your entire life? I am no looker myself but find this hard to believe.

Not OP, but I haven't. I'm overweight. And I think invisible.

You are not invisible!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have literally never had unwanted attention in your entire life? I am no looker myself but find this hard to believe.

Not OP, but I haven't. I'm overweight. And I think invisible.

You are not invisible!!!

I grew up in NYC in the 70s and 80s in not the best neighborhood and got harassed from around age 11 onwards. I'm very tall and hAve big boobs and ai always thought that that was the reason. The harassment continued until my late 30s and now (almost 45) it has almost stopped. Anyway, I absolutely love being invisible now. I love being able to just walk around and not have to deal with gross comments or men trying to touch me. Love it.

But I have 2 daughters and I'm really scared of the future. My mother always never used to believe me when I told her about the harassment ai endured as a kid. . I guess this is just a harsh lesson that girls have to learn when they hit adolescence but it totally sucks that this is still happenning.