Atheists/Humanists: Do you feel anxiety over death?

[Anonymous]

I am almost positive that believers also have anxiety about death. Not wanting to suffer or not wanting the people in your life to suffer when you are gone is universal, regardless of what you think will happen to you after you die (heaven vs hell vs fertilizer vs ashes). I find the whole premise of this question strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

Actually, I'm agnostic and that's precisely what I think. I think most people who believe in God don't have to work constantly at it, but I do, which is an indication that I'm unlikely to ever believe. It's your belief that I am somehow working hard not to believe that is dismissive. The point that some atheists are trying to make to you, perhaps inappropriately couched in language about intelligence, is that there is an actual difference in how easy it is for us to internalize something that feels fundamentally irrational. At the exact same time you are claiming we don't understand that it is easy for you, you are denying that it could be hard for us, and being offensively dismissive by suggesting we need to aggressively keep God out to continue to non-believe.

People who know God through Jesus Christ are literally transformed by the Holy Spirit. That does not mean that doubt does not occasionally present itself. But Christ literally transforms us. If we let Him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel sad about not existing anymore, and not getting to see the rest of my kids' lives and their kids' lives, and what happens in the world. And yes, I probably agonize over that too much. But I also used to freak out as a child at the prospect of eternity -- when does it ever end? That frightened me much more.

+1 The idea of leaving loved ones makes me feel sad, and I feel a bit nervous about what dying might be like. But being dead? Will feel like 1920 to me -- that is, I will feeling nothing after death the same way I felt nothing before I was born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

Actually, I'm agnostic and that's precisely what I think. I think most people who believe in God don't have to work constantly at it, but I do, which is an indication that I'm unlikely to ever believe. It's your belief that I am somehow working hard not to believe that is dismissive. The point that some atheists are trying to make to you, perhaps inappropriately couched in language about intelligence, is that there is an actual difference in how easy it is for us to internalize something that feels fundamentally irrational. At the exact same time you are claiming we don't understand that it is easy for you, you are denying that it could be hard for us, and being offensively dismissive by suggesting we need to aggressively keep God out to continue to non-believe.

People who know God through Jesus Christ are literally transformed by the Holy Spirit. That does not mean that doubt does not occasionally present itself. But Christ literally transforms us. If we let Him.

I'm not disputing your spiritual experience. I'm saying I don't experience spirituality in the same way. And saying I'm somehow lying to myself or aggressively keeping Jesus out is just you being a condescending twat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

[Anonymous]

Good = void

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

I didn't say that at all, and you're putting words in my mouth (words on my post?). One can absolutely reject God, yes. That is a sad truth. One can reject God, over and over. But that doesn't mean that God isn't real and that the person in question is choosing to deny that, like we all choose to deny realities every day that we don't like. (E.g. DH - the kids are being brats. Me -No they aren't, they are just being kids!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

I didn't say that at all, and you're putting words in my mouth (words on my post?). One can absolutely reject God, yes. That is a sad truth. One can reject God, over and over. But that doesn't mean that God isn't real and that the person in question is choosing to deny that, like we all choose to deny realities every day that we don't like. (E.g. DH - the kids are being brats. Me -No they aren't, they are just being kids!)

Yes, you literally said this: "those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a 'void' (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them." That is a profoundly condescending thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

I didn't say that at all, and you're putting words in my mouth (words on my post?). One can absolutely reject God, yes. That is a sad truth. One can reject God, over and over. But that doesn't mean that God isn't real and that the person in question is choosing to deny that, like we all choose to deny realities every day that we don't like. (E.g. DH - the kids are being brats. Me -No they aren't, they are just being kids!)

Yes, you literally said this: "those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a 'void' (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them." That is a profoundly condescending thing to say.

Well, I certainly did not mean it in a condescending way. I do believe that it is true; however, I should have added or perhaps written in this way: Those who are truly self-examined will recognize that there is a void. One can then choose to debate, argue with, question, fight against (fill in your own black) and finally recognize and accept that said void cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them OR .... continue to deny that reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

I didn't say that at all, and you're putting words in my mouth (words on my post?). One can absolutely reject God, yes. That is a sad truth. One can reject God, over and over. But that doesn't mean that God isn't real and that the person in question is choosing to deny that, like we all choose to deny realities every day that we don't like. (E.g. DH - the kids are being brats. Me -No they aren't, they are just being kids!)

Yes, you literally said this: "those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a 'void' (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them." That is a profoundly condescending thing to say.

Well, I certainly did not mean it in a condescending way. I do believe that it is true; however, I should have added or perhaps written in this way: Those who are truly self-examined will recognize that there is a void. One can then choose to debate, argue with, question, fight against (fill in your own black) and finally recognize and accept that said void cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them OR .... continue to deny that reality.

Lololol much less condescending!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Actually, you are both wrong. Some people feel a void that, for them, can effectively be filled by a belief in God. Some people either don't feel that good or do not find it to be filled through belief in God. What is hard about this concept?

There is nothing hard about that concept to understand, it's just that I, personally, do not agree with it. I'm not saying that every person on the earth literally walks around every day saying "I FEEL A VOID. WHAT CAN FILL THAT VOID?" Many (most) people go for years or great stretches of their lives, filling it in different ways and/or ignoring it (thus not being really aware), often being quite happy and even content. But yes, I believe those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a "void" (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them.

Ok, and that's a condescending belief based on the false notion that other people aren't "truly self-examined." It lacks cognitive flexibility, because you fail to see that someone of similar intelligence and reflectiveness could process the same information and arrive at a different conclusion. It's also non-falsifiable, because you are using as evidence whether someone is "truly self-examined" the relevant outcome, which is whether they've accepted God. The only major difference between your position and the Athiest who says that anyone who accepts God must be "dumb" is that "truly self-examined" is a much better euphemism than "dumb."

I didn't say that at all, and you're putting words in my mouth (words on my post?). One can absolutely reject God, yes. That is a sad truth. One can reject God, over and over. But that doesn't mean that God isn't real and that the person in question is choosing to deny that, like we all choose to deny realities every day that we don't like. (E.g. DH - the kids are being brats. Me -No they aren't, they are just being kids!)

Yes, you literally said this: "those who are truly self-examined, which includes most people at some point if they are lucky enough to live long enough, will recognize that there is a 'void' (for lack of a better word) that cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them." That is a profoundly condescending thing to say.

Well, I certainly did not mean it in a condescending way. I do believe that it is true; however, I should have added or perhaps written in this way: Those who are truly self-examined will recognize that there is a void. One can then choose to debate, argue with, question, fight against (fill in your own black) and finally recognize and accept that said void cannot be filled by anything except a relationship with the God who created them OR .... continue to deny that reality.

You sound more patronizing by the second. Who are you to say that everyone has a God-shaped void in their lives, and that people who don't are in denial? Speak for yourself.

Also: this thread is asking atheists and humanists for their opinions, not people who believe in God. We've heard your thoughts already, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Nope