The line between teen moodiness and depression

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my dd just turned 13. And she just got her first period. Lots of changes.

But, I'm getting a little concerned and am having difficulty figuring out what is hormonal/normal and what, if anything, is more alarming.

In the last few months she has:

-- Quit her travel sport team
-- Taken to spending huge amounts of time in her room -- would rather binge-watch Netflix or Minecraft than interact with friends
-- Seems to have developed severe anxiety
-- Complains more of illness and missed a lot of school. One day she just flat-out refused to go to school. I definitely have the sense that she now believes that getting her period means at least one day out for cramps, etc. As a Dad, it's kind of hard for me to argue with this, even though I know rationally that's not something that should become a habitual expectation.
-- Begs to be home-schooled.
-- Needs better coaxing to complete things. It's like she gives up when anything starts to get hard.

She assures us there's no bullying or anything at school -- I think she may just be overwhelmed. She went in to meet with the counselor the day she refused to go, so at least the school counselor is involved.

But, we're also getting e-mails from teachers who observe that her once bubbly self has turned more subdued. They are also concerned.

She is an introvert -- always has been. And she's a straight-A student in advanced classes, so it's not like her work is suffering. But, when she starts refusing to go to school, that's concerning.g

I've told my DW I want to screen her for depression but DW is adamantly opposed. She swears it's just hormonal and normal. It very well be, but I don't see the harm in an evaluation.

Anyone else BTDT?

Well her alarm (DW) might be in the prospect of drugs rated for adults being dispensed to a child. Two friends of ours had kids who killed themselves a month into their new scrips that were supposed to help.
Yes, the meds are needed by some but especially with teens they aren't recommended for them for a reason. A lot of counselors/psychs are very into the drugs (many are in them and the profession is very pro).
A regular therapist sounds like a good idea though if DD is open to it? Just sit down with the therapist and have some guidelines first?
Be careful in finding one she would like?
If DD isn't interested though not sure what you can do.

Also - hello? New school! When our DD asked to be homeschooled we found her a new school and she's way happier.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling but we have an introvert too and didn't think it was wise.
Find a small school with friendly kids for an introvert.
Where are you? What about sandy Spring friends?

My mother had this attitude about drugs when my younger brother started suffering from depression. Worried about long-term effects, chemically altering the development of a maturing brain, etc. So no anti-depressants, just talk therapy. So he started secretly self-medicating with other kinds of drugs of a decidedly less legal variety. What long-term effects and damage do you suppose THAT caused? He's doing mostly better now as an adult (Remeron was life-changing for him) but if I ever get a call that his liver has decided to go on vacation, I sadly won't be too surprised.

Anti-depressants are not always necessary. But there can be consequences both ways and digging in your heels and being dogmatic one way or another is dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my dd just turned 13. And she just got her first period. Lots of changes.

But, I'm getting a little concerned and am having difficulty figuring out what is hormonal/normal and what, if anything, is more alarming.

In the last few months she has:

-- Quit her travel sport team
-- Taken to spending huge amounts of time in her room -- would rather binge-watch Netflix or Minecraft than interact with friends
-- Seems to have developed severe anxiety
-- Complains more of illness and missed a lot of school. One day she just flat-out refused to go to school. I definitely have the sense that she now believes that getting her period means at least one day out for cramps, etc. As a Dad, it's kind of hard for me to argue with this, even though I know rationally that's not something that should become a habitual expectation.
-- Begs to be home-schooled.
-- Needs better coaxing to complete things. It's like she gives up when anything starts to get hard.

She assures us there's no bullying or anything at school -- I think she may just be overwhelmed. She went in to meet with the counselor the day she refused to go, so at least the school counselor is involved.

But, we're also getting e-mails from teachers who observe that her once bubbly self has turned more subdued. They are also concerned.

She is an introvert -- always has been. And she's a straight-A student in advanced classes, so it's not like her work is suffering. But, when she starts refusing to go to school, that's concerning.g

I've told my DW I want to screen her for depression but DW is adamantly opposed. She swears it's just hormonal and normal. It very well be, but I don't see the harm in an evaluation.

Anyone else BTDT?

Well, there's no way to know exactly why something happens. Some of the illegal drugs - like pot - are probably a whole lot better than some of the big pharma. Once you start on some of that stuff then you need a different drug to want to have sex again, one for sleeping and what about the weight gain?
And no, the pot munchies doesn't sound as bad. Antidepressants dull your feelings too to get through life - unless a teen REALLY needs it it seems unfair to push it until a definite need is seen.

I had a brother who self medicated too - because schizophrenia was setting in. It did the drug cocktail do it? There's no way to know - and while he's recovered now he's been on so many meds in so many institutions there's no way to tell now (and I'm not asking him).

Well her alarm (DW) might be in the prospect of drugs rated for adults being dispensed to a child. Two friends of ours had kids who killed themselves a month into their new scrips that were supposed to help.
Yes, the meds are needed by some but especially with teens they aren't recommended for them for a reason. A lot of counselors/psychs are very into the drugs (many are in them and the profession is very pro).
A regular therapist sounds like a good idea though if DD is open to it? Just sit down with the therapist and have some guidelines first?
Be careful in finding one she would like?
If DD isn't interested though not sure what you can do.

Also - hello? New school! When our DD asked to be homeschooled we found her a new school and she's way happier.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling but we have an introvert too and didn't think it was wise.
Find a small school with friendly kids for an introvert.
Where are you? What about sandy Spring friends?

My mother had this attitude about drugs when my younger brother started suffering from depression. Worried about long-term effects, chemically altering the development of a maturing brain, etc. So no anti-depressants, just talk therapy. So he started secretly self-medicating with other kinds of drugs of a decidedly less legal variety. What long-term effects and damage do you suppose THAT caused? He's doing mostly better now as an adult (Remeron was life-changing for him) but if I ever get a call that his liver has decided to go on vacation, I sadly won't be too surprised.

Anti-depressants are not always necessary. But there can be consequences both ways and digging in your heels and being dogmatic one way or another is dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my dd just turned 13. And she just got her first period. Lots of changes.

But, I'm getting a little concerned and am having difficulty figuring out what is hormonal/normal and what, if anything, is more alarming.

In the last few months she has:

-- Quit her travel sport team
-- Taken to spending huge amounts of time in her room -- would rather binge-watch Netflix or Minecraft than interact with friends
-- Seems to have developed severe anxiety
-- Complains more of illness and missed a lot of school. One day she just flat-out refused to go to school. I definitely have the sense that she now believes that getting her period means at least one day out for cramps, etc. As a Dad, it's kind of hard for me to argue with this, even though I know rationally that's not something that should become a habitual expectation.
-- Begs to be home-schooled.
-- Needs better coaxing to complete things. It's like she gives up when anything starts to get hard.

She assures us there's no bullying or anything at school -- I think she may just be overwhelmed. She went in to meet with the counselor the day she refused to go, so at least the school counselor is involved.

But, we're also getting e-mails from teachers who observe that her once bubbly self has turned more subdued. They are also concerned.

She is an introvert -- always has been. And she's a straight-A student in advanced classes, so it's not like her work is suffering. But, when she starts refusing to go to school, that's concerning.g

I've told my DW I want to screen her for depression but DW is adamantly opposed. She swears it's just hormonal and normal. It very well be, but I don't see the harm in an evaluation.

Anyone else BTDT?

Well, there's no way to know exactly why something happens. Some of the illegal drugs - like pot - are probably a whole lot better than some of the big pharma. Once you start on some of that stuff then you need a different drug to want to have sex again, one for sleeping and what about the weight gain?
And no, the pot munchies doesn't sound as bad. Antidepressants dull your feelings too to get through life - unless a teen REALLY needs it it seems unfair to push it until a definite need is seen.

I had a brother who self medicated too - because schizophrenia was setting in. It did the drug cocktail do it? There's no way to know - and while he's recovered now he's been on so many meds in so many institutions there's no way to tell now (and I'm not asking him).

Well her alarm (DW) might be in the prospect of drugs rated for adults being dispensed to a child. Two friends of ours had kids who killed themselves a month into their new scrips that were supposed to help.
Yes, the meds are needed by some but especially with teens they aren't recommended for them for a reason. A lot of counselors/psychs are very into the drugs (many are in them and the profession is very pro).
A regular therapist sounds like a good idea though if DD is open to it? Just sit down with the therapist and have some guidelines first?
Be careful in finding one she would like?
If DD isn't interested though not sure what you can do.

Also - hello? New school! When our DD asked to be homeschooled we found her a new school and she's way happier.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling but we have an introvert too and didn't think it was wise.
Find a small school with friendly kids for an introvert.
Where are you? What about sandy Spring friends?

My mother had this attitude about drugs when my younger brother started suffering from depression. Worried about long-term effects, chemically altering the development of a maturing brain, etc. So no anti-depressants, just talk therapy. So he started secretly self-medicating with other kinds of drugs of a decidedly less legal variety. What long-term effects and damage do you suppose THAT caused? He's doing mostly better now as an adult (Remeron was life-changing for him) but if I ever get a call that his liver has decided to go on vacation, I sadly won't be too surprised.

Anti-depressants are not always necessary. But there can be consequences both ways and digging in your heels and being dogmatic one way or another is dangerous.

Well, there's no way to know exactly why something happens. Some of the illegal drugs - like pot - are probably a whole lot better than some of the big pharma. Once you start on some of that stuff then you need a different drug to want to have sex again, one for sleeping and what about the weight gain?
And no, the pot munchies doesn't sound as bad. Antidepressants dull your feelings too to get through life (when they don't cause suicidal thoughts) - unless a teen REALLY needs it it seems unfair to push it until a definite need is seen.

I have seen people who really need drugs - watching a gal I worked with run out of her anti anxiety drugs was really eye opening (boy did she need those !). It's just that nowadays they are given out like tic tacs and more thought should be given to it first.

I had a brother who self medicated too - because schizophrenia was setting in. It did the drug cocktail do it? There's no way to know - and while he's recovered now he's been on so many meds in so many institutions there's no way to tell now (and I'm not asking him).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all.

I'm skeptical of our ability to qualify for FA based on HHI (about $240K). We're one of those DC types who feel squeezed despite a high income. A lot of it is being house poor, hence my comment about needing to sell the house to be able to afford it

To the poster who said I told her she needed to join another team/do another sport, etc. As I said, I said something individual would work. What I told her is "you're not going to quit your team and spend all that time you would have been on the field in your room looking at screens. You have to do something that gets you exercise on multiple days in the week." That was the message, and I don't think it was the wrong one.

Am I completely wrong at our income to think FA is out of reach?

No you can get some. I'm poster from above and our DD got an academic scholarship too which is helpful.
There are also some off the beaten path schools that she might like that are a little less $$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all.

I'm skeptical of our ability to qualify for FA based on HHI (about $240K). We're one of those DC types who feel squeezed despite a high income. A lot of it is being house poor, hence my comment about needing to sell the house to be able to afford it

To the poster who said I told her she needed to join another team/do another sport, etc. As I said, I said something individual would work. What I told her is "you're not going to quit your team and spend all that time you would have been on the field in your room looking at screens. You have to do something that gets you exercise on multiple days in the week." That was the message, and I don't think it was the wrong one.

Am I completely wrong at our income to think FA is out of reach?

No you can get some. I'm poster from above (13:17) and our DD got an academic scholarship too which is helpful.
There are also some off the beaten path schools that she might like that are a little less $$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She has many red flags for depression especially coupled with anxiety. Have you checked her web searches? So dangerous to have these symptoms and be off in her room with internet access.

Counseling is definitely in order at a minimum. Generally counseling is not enough and meds may be recommended but definitely keep an even closer eye as teens are more prone to act those first few months on the drugs. If there's anyway to make sure she's getting a good multivitamin and exercise daily. Consider getting a light therapy box off Amazon. If she wants to leave school, a change is in order where HS or switch schools.

Good luck to you and your family. Remind DW she would never forgive herself for this is something happens and you didn't take steps now.

Really you must know any teen girls because the vast majority are like this when they are at home.
For 45 year old woman - yes red flags. For a teen girl? Probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She has many red flags for depression especially coupled with anxiety. Have you checked her web searches? So dangerous to have these symptoms and be off in her room with internet access.

Counseling is definitely in order at a minimum. Generally counseling is not enough and meds may be recommended but definitely keep an even closer eye as teens are more prone to act those first few months on the drugs. If there's anyway to make sure she's getting a good multivitamin and exercise daily. Consider getting a light therapy box off Amazon. If she wants to leave school, a change is in order where HS or switch schools.

Good luck to you and your family. Remind DW she would never forgive herself for this is something happens and you didn't take steps now.

Really you must know any teen girls because the vast majority are like this when they are at home.
For 45 year old woman - yes red flags. For a teen girl? Probably not.

In the past 3 months she has quit her travel team, doesn't want to go to school and at times refuses to go, stays in her room an inordinate amount of the time....

This might happen at times to teenagers but I wouldn't call it typical teen behavior. I think that getting her out of her room and out exercising in the fresh air will do her a lot of good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a 14yr old confident freshman who was the world's worst 13yr old ever. My child was semi-introverted, very kid-like (loves to play) and played sports with boys a lot. Youngest in her class, one of the smartest in her class. She loved to read books for hours, play sports, and do engineering things: Robotics, legos, etc.. That was all a positive in elementary school and even in 6th grade EVERYONE was awkward so it was this "we are all in this together mentality" but by the middle of 7th grade and all of 8th grade, she lost her way. She was losing interest in sports (due to confidence, not skill) and there wasn't a lot of outside "playing" going on anymore. Physical activity was down, school pressure was up, sleep amount down, level of stress up, level of confidence down. That all equals some mild depression. It isn't something kids realize until it is kinda too late and the feelings are taking over. Some girls were boy crazy, some were make-up hair crazy. Some were so focused on school they didn't even care to have friends. Some wanted to be the cool kids or the bad kids. Others were addicted to social media. My daughter just wanted to be a kid. Honestly, she was lost. Why can't everyone still be friends and have fun. She felt like everyone was finding their way (when really no one was) and it made her doubt who she is. She made mistakes with friends, did not like herself. She started growing so fast during puberty she got some stretch marks on her inner thighs. She was mentally ready for her period but not all the hormones and body changes no matter how much we talked about it and we had books on it. I would look in her phone every few days (I always knew the passwords and she knew) and there were all these girls talking about cutting themselves, sticking their fingers down their throats, talking about how fat they feel, how dumb they are, etc... It is shocking how bad girls feel about themselves and text and post crazy things on social media. My daughter was just logging into with some girls that were in it for years. It was a new horrible transition for her. We had long talks and she was very open. She wasn't sure why she felt this way, she was angry and moody a lot. Didn't like looking in the mirror. Didn't like herself. She did in fact cut herself very shallow one time and showed me. It was very superficial and it was based on so many girls trying it she wanted to do it and see why the need was there for people. Then she was so mad at herself for doing it. She showed me and said "Why am I like this?!?" Tears. I mean, it was a terrible terrible time.

We kept an extremely open dialogue and she transitioned to some new friends that were more positive for her. I got her a bunch of books and we would text to each other if she was embarrassed to say anything face to face. She was a counselor at an all girls camp for weeks in the summer and that did wonders. Those girls thought she was the COOLEST girl in the world. She loved legos, sports, science, etc... It was amazing for her. She reluctantly stayed on her travel team and then this summer had a great time with them. She made a JV team in 9th grade and met so many high schoolers before setting foot into school. They didn't have time for the little middle school whine and "pity me" parties and she loved it. She found some great friends in multiple grades and she is doing very well. She is reading for fun again, really getting into music and playing with her younger sisters again. We didn't do anything drastic but kept a close eye on her and let her vent and NEVER said the cliche responses but always talked about overcoming things. Working together and making the best of any situation. That we would always love her no matter what mistakes she made. And we both told her a lot of the mistakes we made. We were failures too. Many times over and over again. We were unsure of ourselves. We weren't good friends always either. It really helped. And she could take 1-2 "mental health" days a quarter. She still can but hasn't used one yet this year. She used them ALL last year. A lot of one on one time is good. Dad/Daughter bowling date. Mom/Daughter dinner/movie etc... Kids this age will talk so much more when there is only one parent as opposed to two. They are outnumbered and feel it. They clam up. She went to her guidance counselor a few times a month to talk things over as well. Otherwise we kept her out of any therapy as I thought she might have the mentality that she was "really messed up" if we had to take her to see a shrink. I always left the door open and I always told her there is a change I may call if we lose communication or things get worse. Not a threat but just a clear "I need you to be healthy at any cost" mentality. But it never got that far and the differences a few months made, let a lone an entire year. Night and Day. Not saying it is the same for your daughter but just wanted to let you know our story.

The Teen Instant Help books really helped. I recommend these for your daughter:

http://www.amazon.com/Shyness-Social-Anxiety-Workbook-Teens/dp/1608821870/ref=pd_sim_14_7?ie=UTF8&dpID=51zpQzTVFVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128%2C160_&refRID=1RV32G5PF6VTRQCHB4H8

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Mind-Into-Life-Teens/dp/1608821935/ref=pd_sim_14_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=51EmfghPq3L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128%2C160_&refRID=1RV32G5PF6VTRQCHB4H8

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Your-Emotions-Life-Teens/dp/1572248831/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0P02M4TQQGC7YJ92E6RP


Get her a good sex book too. Not necessarily now but but soon. That has everything and anything in it. It makes a difference in stress, anxiety and not knowing "everything" when you hear and see things on the internet or social media. It makes a girl much more confident. Not to be promiscuous. Just to know and be smart and proactive about your body in the future. I recommend this one.

http://www.amazon.com/S-E-X-All-You-Need---Know-Progressive-Sexuality/dp/1600940102/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1455823569&sr=1-7&keywords=sex+ed

Good Luck!

Not the OP but really helpful information. It is rare to get that without all the judgement and jumping to drugs conclusion. I am definitely picking up a few of these books for my teen.

[Anonymous]

Severe anxiety and school refusal are reasons by themselves to get mental health counseling. And anxiety often leads to depression. We have BTDT, and I would not simply ignore and hope it gets better...or try to solve it just with exercise and new activities. Those help, but they are not treatment for clinical anxiety, which is likely to get worse if it goes untreated. Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

I'd get counseling. My DD is a freshman and has had some issues this year and just one session with a counselor has made a positive difference to everyone in our family, including DD. DD even said that she thinks counseling will help her. Addressing the issues out loud with my child and someone outside of the family somehow made us all feel that we will get through this.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions in this thread. A lot to consider. I'm sure it will work out.

BTW, I don't think she's on drugs. She's too much of a homebody. Someone said something about how their dd was trying to cling to being a kid at this age -- I think that may describe a bit what's going on with my kiddo.

We'll be OK! Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

It will be okay, OP, and I can say that just based on that fact that you are acting on this issue. Just one thing from one dad to another. I have a DS around same age as your DD and he is likewise going through a difficult time. I tend to immediately want to "fix" the problem and DW has to remind me that some of what I'm seeing is normal and not to overreact. I'm not saying that is or isn't your situation, but I know for myself that I'm quickly go into problem solving mode and with child mental health issues, there is no easy and quick fix. Just take it one day at a time and continue to reassess. That, and a glass of wine each night couldn't hurt.

[Anonymous]

op, on the travel team part...my 12.5 year old son wants to quit his travel soccer team. his energy is 180 degrees different from last year. as the coach's demands have increased>>more practices, pressure to do extra training in the gym, higher "elite" leagues, pressure to play competitively in the summer in addition to spring and fall and winter futsal>>my son has burned out. me too. he will drop it at the end of the spring and wants to play for his own school next fall and basically go to the one season one sport model. when I ask him what's happened, he says "it's just not fun anymore" "I just want to have fun". who can blame him. (also school demands have increased and it's hard to balance all the homework with the late night practices).

also, for the first time in a couple of years, he's asked me to read to him again at night before bed. this is after he's done his own homework and own reading for school.

it seems exhausting to be between childhood and full on adolescence. he needs more comfort and more independence too.

[Anonymous]

Did you ask DD about counseling? My DD seemed sad and I asked if she want to talk with someone professional. To my surprise, she said yes. She did talk therapy for about 8 sessions. The therapy helped. I also think it really helped her to know that when she struggles, she should reach out -- that we will help her or find someone to help her. I think that is a really important lesson, esp for a high anxiety high achiever who will be headed to college in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Severe anxiety and school refusal are reasons by themselves to get mental health counseling. And anxiety often leads to depression. We have BTDT, and I would not simply ignore and hope it gets better...or try to solve it just with exercise and new activities. Those help, but they are not treatment for clinical anxiety, which is likely to get worse if it goes untreated. Good luck, OP.

Disagree. I think you can increase anxiety by going straight to mental health counseling.