The line between teen moodiness and depression

[Anonymous]

A lot would concern me, especially emails from the teachers. This is a complete change in personality not just periodic moodiness. Nobody stops wanting to go to school and gets anxiety just because they are hormonal. Something is triggering this and I would for sure see a therapist with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. Have read all the thoughtful responses. Thank you.

The social anxiety worries me. Quitting the team was related in large part to social dynamics. She never felt like she belonged so basically just had enough. That's fine. I get it. I did tell her she had to do something else -- play the same sport at a rec level, try a different team sport or individual sport. But she is resisting those things.

To the person who raised the flags about the drugs - I share your concern. I'm not eager to medicate her, either. I just want a professional evaluation from someone who can tell me "yeah, there's a problem here" or "don't worry -- all of this is very normal.!"

And, we're looking for another school. But that's kind of tricky since school size contributes to her issues, and smaller options are very expensive and, frankly, out of reach financially without some dramatic change in our lifestyle. I'm willing to make those dramatic changes, but we cannot snap our fingers and make it happen overnight since it would involve selling the house and moving somewhere cheaper.

If she is a good student you would be surprised how much financial aid they might offer you.
Also - is this high school and are you in MD, DC or Va?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. Have read all the thoughtful responses. Thank you.

The social anxiety worries me. Quitting the team was related in large part to social dynamics. She never felt like she belonged so basically just had enough. That's fine. I get it. I did tell her she had to do something else -- play the same sport at a rec level, try a different team sport or individual sport. But she is resisting those things.

To the person who raised the flags about the drugs - I share your concern. I'm not eager to medicate her, either. I just want a professional evaluation from someone who can tell me "yeah, there's a problem here" or "don't worry -- all of this is very normal.!"

And, we're looking for another school. But that's kind of tricky since school size contributes to her issues, and smaller options are very expensive and, frankly, out of reach financially without some dramatic change in our lifestyle. I'm willing to make those dramatic changes, but we cannot snap our fingers and make it happen overnight since it would involve selling the house and moving somewhere cheaper.

Op - she's feeling like a social, awkward misfit right now. The team dynamics didn't work out for her so now you have told her that she needs to move to a different team or another sport. But she is resisting.

Try an aerobics class at the gym or rec center - something that teens go to solo. She may make friends, she may just go to get a work out. The travel team didn't work out - in the grand scheme of things, so what? Your daughter has a lot going for her. She has great grades, she is in decent shape and she has a family that adores her.

There is something out there for her. I guarantee it. In fact, she has a heck of a lot going for her now without anything else. Teenage years can be tough and middle school cliques are the worst! Especially for girls.

Does she like dogs? Maybe get a puppy and get her involved in the training - take classes together. Have her walk the dog on leash. She will be busy and she will learn a valuable new skill - dog training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. Have read all the thoughtful responses. Thank you.

The social anxiety worries me. Quitting the team was related in large part to social dynamics. She never felt like she belonged so basically just had enough. That's fine. I get it. I did tell her she had to do something else -- play the same sport at a rec level, try a different team sport or individual sport. But she is resisting those things.

To the person who raised the flags about the drugs - I share your concern. I'm not eager to medicate her, either. I just want a professional evaluation from someone who can tell me "yeah, there's a problem here" or "don't worry -- all of this is very normal.!"

And, we're looking for another school. But that's kind of tricky since school size contributes to her issues, and smaller options are very expensive and, frankly, out of reach financially without some dramatic change in our lifestyle. I'm willing to make those dramatic changes, but we cannot snap our fingers and make it happen overnight since it would involve selling the house and moving somewhere cheaper.

Op - she's feeling like a social, awkward misfit right now. The team dynamics didn't work out for her so now you have told her that she needs to move to a different team or another sport. But she is resisting.

Try an aerobics class at the gym or rec center - something that teens go to solo. She may make friends, she may just go to get a work out. The travel team didn't work out - in the grand scheme of things, so what? Your daughter has a lot going for her. She has great grades, she is in decent shape and she has a family that adores her.

There is something out there for her. I guarantee it. In fact, she has a heck of a lot going for her now without anything else. Teenage years can be tough and middle school cliques are the worst! Especially for girls.

Does she like dogs? Maybe get a puppy and get her involved in the training - take classes together. Have her walk the dog on leash. She will be busy and she will learn a valuable new skill - dog training.

[Anonymous]

Holton-Arms would be a great fit for her in middle and upper school. Please check it out. If she is a good student you can get a very good FA package.

We moved our daughter in 7th for similar reasons. We only pay 30% of the tuition and it has been a game changer for us. There are so many different types of kids there including introverts and all are welcome. Class sizes small (12-18kids a class), encouragement for clubs and after school activities. Weekly class meetings, weekly school meetings, etc.. to go over more social issues. Many speakers and parent events to help your daughter emotionally. It is a college prep school but it very much focuses on the girl and a healthy mindset.

[Anonymous]

She has many red flags for depression especially coupled with anxiety. Have you checked her web searches? So dangerous to have these symptoms and be off in her room with internet access.

Counseling is definitely in order at a minimum. Generally counseling is not enough and meds may be recommended but definitely keep an even closer eye as teens are more prone to act those first few months on the drugs. If there's anyway to make sure she's getting a good multivitamin and exercise daily. Consider getting a light therapy box off Amazon. If she wants to leave school, a change is in order where HS or switch schools.

Good luck to you and your family. Remind DW she would never forgive herself for this is something happens and you didn't take steps now.

[Anonymous]

Rule out medical issues.

Our DD quit her team and became a complete couch potato--a radical change for her. It took months to find out that she had allergy induced asthma (no previous history--who knew this stuff could pop up suddenly in adolescence?) so sports weren't going well and an insidious chronic sinus infection that had no symptoms other than the loss of all her pep. After several courses of antibiotics and steroids failed, it took two surgeries to fix the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my dd just turned 13. And she just got her first period. Lots of changes.

But, I'm getting a little concerned and am having difficulty figuring out what is hormonal/normal and what, if anything, is more alarming.

In the last few months she has:

-- Quit her travel sport team
-- Taken to spending huge amounts of time in her room -- would rather binge-watch Netflix or Minecraft than interact with friends
-- Seems to have developed severe anxiety
-- Complains more of illness and missed a lot of school. One day she just flat-out refused to go to school. I definitely have the sense that she now believes that getting her period means at least one day out for cramps, etc. As a Dad, it's kind of hard for me to argue with this, even though I know rationally that's not something that should become a habitual expectation.
-- Begs to be home-schooled.
-- Needs better coaxing to complete things. It's like she gives up when anything starts to get hard.

She assures us there's no bullying or anything at school -- I think she may just be overwhelmed. She went in to meet with the counselor the day she refused to go, so at least the school counselor is involved.

But, we're also getting e-mails from teachers who observe that her once bubbly self has turned more subdued. They are also concerned.

She is an introvert -- always has been. And she's a straight-A student in advanced classes, so it's not like her work is suffering. But, when she starts refusing to go to school, that's concerning.g

I've told my DW I want to screen her for depression but DW is adamantly opposed. She swears it's just hormonal and normal. It very well be, but I don't see the harm in an evaluation.

Anyone else BTDT?

You listed a TON of things, so I'm going to address it point by point.

13 with her first period, feeling that everyone can tell, feeling that she's dirty, cramping hurts... Normal. Thinking that she'll be able to take off at least 1 day per month because she's cramping isn't normal. At the first sign of her period, she needs to drink more water, avoid caffeine, eat more iron (red meat, raisins, spinach, liver though it's doubtful she would eat it). She needs to medicate before she starts feeling the cramping, and if she uses something that contains a muscle relaxant, not jut a pain reliever, she'll be able to go through her days like normal. One 12 hour dose when she gets up, the next dose should be due after she gets out of school.

Lots of kids decide to quit travel in middle or high school. Sometimes it's too much to deal with sports, school an having a life. Sometimes it's because they're realistic about their ability. Sometimes they quit because they only did it for the parent. The only way you will find out why is to talk to your daughter, and make sure that you are calm. You want to know why she quit so that you can help her learn to deal with being a teen, not to call her decision into question.

If she's an introvert, the time spent by herself in her room is so that she can recharge, so I wouldn't be concerned with that. The length of time would imply that social dynamics have become more difficult, so she needs longer to recharge, or she may not have the ability to tell when she's had enough time to herself yet.

Severe anxiety rates immediately finding a counselor outside of school. You need to know what to do to help her, she needs to know that you are willing and able to help.

Most kids complain about school and try to skip school at least a few times. If she's refusing to go to school without even pretending to be sick and she's begging to be homeschooled, it's not just a case of a kid who didn't study for a test. If her schedule is still overwhelming even after quitting travel, you and DW need to talk to the school counselor with her and see what you can do to make it manageable. Not easy, but manageable. If the anxiety gets very. very bad and nothing is done about it, she could need to be homeschooled, so step in now and see what you can do to help. Straight A students in advanced classes who want to be there, who have the drive to complete the work don't refuse to go to school on a regular basis unless something is wrong. Trust your instincts. Have the school counselor talk to DW asap, because refusing to have an evaluation could mean that an issue is left untreated for way too long.

Lots of kids want to give up when things get harder. Model working through things. Model ways to make things easier or more efficient. Find out if her organization is making things harder for herself. Find out why she's suddenly quitting everything. Talk to the school and out-of-school counselors about her lack of drive to finish things, and see what they recommend.

If teachers are noticing an extreme change in temperament, they are reaching out because they are worried about anxiety, depression or even suicide. Look online for a list of cues that suicidal teens give, and see how your daughter is matching up. She may not currently be at that point, but she obviously needs help.

I work with teens and preteens as a nanny, tutor and in volunteering. When one goes through such a rapid and extreme change in temperament, it's the adult responsibility to reach of to the child (frequently they're bouncing back and forth between adult and child-like thoughts) while also looking for professional help. I wish you luck, OP, and I hope it works out soon. Please update us when you know what's going on.

OP here. Thanks for this...

The travel team may have been quitting in spite of my enthusiasm for it -- I own that. But the advance course work at school is entirely her doing. We resisted advanced math, for example, but she insisted on it and seems much happier now that she's in that class.

All your other points are very salient and I appreciate the thoughtful response.

We literally have the same DD down to the taking the advanced math class against our recs and the travel sports (she was hellish when injured) being introverted and Netflix binging. Mine is 17 now. I've always worked to keep her socially involved through activities but now that she's in a high school she likes there are many social opportunities there and she even signs up for different sports at school, all her idea.
It's a small school and socially pretty nice so many opportunities sports and social wise. Art, drama too.
I'd look at some good schools like that and apply for financial aid

[Anonymous]

Thanks all.

I'm skeptical of our ability to qualify for FA based on HHI (about $240K). We're one of those DC types who feel squeezed despite a high income. A lot of it is being house poor, hence my comment about needing to sell the house to be able to afford it

To the poster who said I told her she needed to join another team/do another sport, etc. As I said, I said something individual would work. What I told her is "you're not going to quit your team and spend all that time you would have been on the field in your room looking at screens. You have to do something that gets you exercise on multiple days in the week." That was the message, and I don't think it was the wrong one.

Am I completely wrong at our income to think FA is out of reach?

[Anonymous]

I have a 14yr old confident freshman who was the world's worst 13yr old ever. My child was semi-introverted, very kid-like (loves to play) and played sports with boys a lot. Youngest in her class, one of the smartest in her class. She loved to read books for hours, play sports, and do engineering things: Robotics, legos, etc.. That was all a positive in elementary school and even in 6th grade EVERYONE was awkward so it was this "we are all in this together mentality" but by the middle of 7th grade and all of 8th grade, she lost her way. She was losing interest in sports (due to confidence, not skill) and there wasn't a lot of outside "playing" going on anymore. Physical activity was down, school pressure was up, sleep amount down, level of stress up, level of confidence down. That all equals some mild depression. It isn't something kids realize until it is kinda too late and the feelings are taking over. Some girls were boy crazy, some were make-up hair crazy. Some were so focused on school they didn't even care to have friends. Some wanted to be the cool kids or the bad kids. Others were addicted to social media. My daughter just wanted to be a kid. Honestly, she was lost. Why can't everyone still be friends and have fun. She felt like everyone was finding their way (when really no one was) and it made her doubt who she is. She made mistakes with friends, did not like herself. She started growing so fast during puberty she got some stretch marks on her inner thighs. She was mentally ready for her period but not all the hormones and body changes no matter how much we talked about it and we had books on it. I would look in her phone every few days (I always knew the passwords and she knew) and there were all these girls talking about cutting themselves, sticking their fingers down their throats, talking about how fat they feel, how dumb they are, etc... It is shocking how bad girls feel about themselves and text and post crazy things on social media. My daughter was just logging into with some girls that were in it for years. It was a new horrible transition for her. We had long talks and she was very open. She wasn't sure why she felt this way, she was angry and moody a lot. Didn't like looking in the mirror. Didn't like herself. She did in fact cut herself very shallow one time and showed me. It was very superficial and it was based on so many girls trying it she wanted to do it and see why the need was there for people. Then she was so mad at herself for doing it. She showed me and said "Why am I like this?!?" Tears. I mean, it was a terrible terrible time.

We kept an extremely open dialogue and she transitioned to some new friends that were more positive for her. I got her a bunch of books and we would text to each other if she was embarrassed to say anything face to face. She was a counselor at an all girls camp for weeks in the summer and that did wonders. Those girls thought she was the COOLEST girl in the world. She loved legos, sports, science, etc... It was amazing for her. She reluctantly stayed on her travel team and then this summer had a great time with them. She made a JV team in 9th grade and met so many high schoolers before setting foot into school. They didn't have time for the little middle school whine and "pity me" parties and she loved it. She found some great friends in multiple grades and she is doing very well. She is reading for fun again, really getting into music and playing with her younger sisters again. We didn't do anything drastic but kept a close eye on her and let her vent and NEVER said the cliche responses but always talked about overcoming things. Working together and making the best of any situation. That we would always love her no matter what mistakes she made. And we both told her a lot of the mistakes we made. We were failures too. Many times over and over again. We were unsure of ourselves. We weren't good friends always either. It really helped. And she could take 1-2 "mental health" days a quarter. She still can but hasn't used one yet this year. She used them ALL last year. A lot of one on one time is good. Dad/Daughter bowling date. Mom/Daughter dinner/movie etc... Kids this age will talk so much more when there is only one parent as opposed to two. They are outnumbered and feel it. They clam up. She went to her guidance counselor a few times a month to talk things over as well. Otherwise we kept her out of any therapy as I thought she might have the mentality that she was "really messed up" if we had to take her to see a shrink. I always left the door open and I always told her there is a change I may call if we lose communication or things get worse. Not a threat but just a clear "I need you to be healthy at any cost" mentality. But it never got that far and the differences a few months made, let a lone an entire year. Night and Day. Not saying it is the same for your daughter but just wanted to let you know our story.

The Teen Instant Help books really helped. I recommend these for your daughter:

http://www.amazon.com/Shyness-Social-Anxiety-Workbook-Teens/dp/1608821870/ref=pd_sim_14_7?ie=UTF8&dpID=51zpQzTVFVL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128%2C160_&refRID=1RV32G5PF6VTRQCHB4H8

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Mind-Into-Life-Teens/dp/1608821935/ref=pd_sim_14_6?ie=UTF8&dpID=51EmfghPq3L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR128%2C160_&refRID=1RV32G5PF6VTRQCHB4H8

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Your-Emotions-Life-Teens/dp/1572248831/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0P02M4TQQGC7YJ92E6RP


Get her a good sex book too. Not necessarily now but but soon. That has everything and anything in it. It makes a difference in stress, anxiety and not knowing "everything" when you hear and see things on the internet or social media. It makes a girl much more confident. Not to be promiscuous. Just to know and be smart and proactive about your body in the future. I recommend this one.

http://www.amazon.com/S-E-X-All-You-Need---Know-Progressive-Sexuality/dp/1600940102/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1455823569&sr=1-7&keywords=sex+ed

Good Luck!

[Anonymous]

Does your kid have access to netflix in her bedroom, OP?

I suffered from depression as a teen and to be honest, watching way too much tv only exacerbated it and allowed me to withdraw from everyone.

[Anonymous]

agree w/ PP, limit her access to TV and Netflix.

I remember going through a terrible time at age 12-13 once I got my period. It was so painful for me and made me want to curl up in bed and die.

Get her on Advil immediately. 3 pills when period starts, with 2 pills every 6 hours until period is over. This was life changing for me, and helped me get back to my old self.

I am an introvert too, and definitely became more of one after puberty, but the anxiety and depressed behavior went away after a year or so, after I adjusted to the new norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:agree w/ PP, limit her access to TV and Netflix.

I remember going through a terrible time at age 12-13 once I got my period. It was so painful for me and made me want to curl up in bed and die.

Get her on Advil immediately. 3 pills when period starts, with 2 pills every 6 hours until period is over. This was life changing for me, and helped me get back to my old self.

I am an introvert too, and definitely became more of one after puberty, but the anxiety and depressed behavior went away after a year or so, after I adjusted to the new norm.

....advil ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all.

I'm skeptical of our ability to qualify for FA based on HHI (about $240K). We're one of those DC types who feel squeezed despite a high income. A lot of it is being house poor, hence my comment about needing to sell the house to be able to afford it

To the poster who said I told her she needed to join another team/do another sport, etc. As I said, I said something individual would work. What I told her is "you're not going to quit your team and spend all that time you would have been on the field in your room looking at screens. You have to do something that gets you exercise on multiple days in the week." That was the message, and I don't think it was the wrong one.

Am I completely wrong at our income to think FA is out of reach?

I don't know about the FA. But I was the one who mentioned that about the sports - I got the impression that you had been heavily involved in the travel team and that maybe she might be feeling a bit of pressure from you to get back on that horse so to speak. It does sound as though you have a healthy perspective on it all and that you aren't pressuring her which is good...

Hey, even a jog around the block, a bike ride on a trail, a swim at the local rec center would keep her away from all that alone time in her room. Family game night is also fun and so is family movie night. She'll figure things out. She sounds like a really great kid, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:agree w/ PP, limit her access to TV and Netflix.

I remember going through a terrible time at age 12-13 once I got my period. It was so painful for me and made me want to curl up in bed and die.

Get her on Advil immediately. 3 pills when period starts, with 2 pills every 6 hours until period is over. This was life changing for me, and helped me get back to my old self.

I am an introvert too, and definitely became more of one after puberty, but the anxiety and depressed behavior went away after a year or so, after I adjusted to the new norm.

....advil ?

Her period doesn't last all month. It's probably only bad 2 or 3 days out of the month. She needs to get out and exercise.