Petition to Keep Centers - Hypocritical?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

It is fair because it means that students that qualify for Level IV services get them. Think of it as expanding the Center school model to more schools.

Centers are not the same as local level IV-ask anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

This response is a great example of why people hate AAP parents. If there is now a significantly larger number of kids getting in, the logical step is to get rid of centers because they don't need to bus kids to centers to get a critical mass of peers with similar ability. Centers were created to provide kids will a similar peer group. If AAP has expanded to include so many kids, the center model is entirely unnecessary. You can't even argue that the center model should be kept because of the profoundly gifted kids because they most certainly aren't being served by the current center model because they are now placed in a class including a ton of moderately gifted kids, rather than one with kids of their ability.

How many times do you need to hear it to understand that not every school is like those in the most affluent pyramids. Many schools only have a handful of gifted kids and cannot provide level IV services. Heck, they barely provide level III services. If you're not too scared, take a ride over to the poorer parts of the county and get your eyes opened. Or do you believe the less affluent have no right to level IV services, which is what the centers provide now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

It is fair because it means that students that qualify for Level IV services get them. Think of it as expanding the Center school model to more schools.

Centers are not the same as local level IV-ask anybody.

If you ask me, I will tell you differently. I know change is hard, but LLIV can and is in many schools a great program equaling and sometimes surpassing the available Center. If there are enough Level IV and III (for each core subject), it is every bit as robust as a center school. The differences people cluck about are really differences in various teachers/Principals- and that varies everywhere regardless of class. For those schools who do not have the minimum number of students, then the Center model works best. FCPS is not a monolith, there should be different solutions to bringing Level IV to the student that qualifies. What would be unfair would be one standard unbending cookie cutter model to which all schools must conform regardless of the actual circumstances on the ground.

[Anonymous]

Right now there are plenty of LLIV programs that do not have enough students in them to fill a class or even half of one. IMO they should be closed as well. In fact some of the centers barely even have enough for one class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

Up front: I'm not part of FCAG. But I know your kids didn't have our base elementary school or you would understand why kids who qualified for AAP left there for the AAP center school. The center wasn't a "hothouse" but it was the only way to get kids anything beyond "enrichment" that merely meant extra worksheets and little else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

This response is a great example of why people hate AAP parents. If there is now a significantly larger number of kids getting in, the logical step is to get rid of centers because they don't need to bus kids to centers to get a critical mass of peers with similar ability. Centers were created to provide kids will a similar peer group. If AAP has expanded to include so many kids, the center model is entirely unnecessary. You can't even argue that the centergley model should be kept because of the profoundly gifted kids because they most certainly aren't being served by the current center model because they are now placed in a class including a ton of moderately gifted kids, rather than one with kids of their ability.

Get out of your Langley bubble. As many, many people have pointed out, what is happening in Colvin Run's 6th grades is NOT a reflection of what is happening in the rest of FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

This response is a great example of why people hate AAP parents. If there is now a significantly larger number of kids getting in, the logical step is to get rid of centers because they don't need to bus kids to centers to get a critical mass of peers with similar ability. Centers were created to provide kids will a similar peer group. If AAP has expanded to include so many kids, the center model is entirely unnecessary. You can't even argue that the centergley model should be kept because of the profoundly gifted kids because they most certainly aren't being served by the current center model because they are now placed in a class including a ton of moderately gifted kids, rather than one with kids of their ability.

Get out of your Langley bubble. As many, many people have pointed out, what is happening in Colvin Run's 6th grades is NOT a reflection of what is happening in the rest of FCPS.

I was responding to the pp that said the program should continue relatively unchanged. That is absolutely ridiculous for many parts of the county. I don't think the center model should go on relatively unchanged for the reasons I stated above. I don't have a problem with centers remaining is the less affluent areas, but I do have a problem with people in areas with a critical mass piggy backing on that and saying nothing should be changed anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

It is fair because it means that students that qualify for Level IV services get them. Think of it as expanding the Center school model to more schools.

Centers are not the same as local level IV-ask anybody.

That's because a critical mass flees to the center. Make those kids stay and LLIV would absolutely be like centers, if not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

This response is a great example of why people hate AAP parents. If there is now a significantly larger number of kids getting in, the logical step is to get rid of centers because they don't need to bus kids to centers to get a critical mass of peers with similar ability. Centers were created to provide kids will a similar peer group. If AAP has expanded to include so many kids, the center model is entirely unnecessary. You can't even argue that the centergley model should be kept because of the profoundly gifted kids because they most certainly aren't being served by the current center model because they are now placed in a class including a ton of moderately gifted kids, rather than one with kids of their ability.

Get out of your Langley bubble. As many, many people have pointed out, what is happening in Colvin Run's 6th grades is NOT a reflection of what is happening in the rest of FCPS.

I was responding to the pp that said the program should continue relatively unchanged. That is absolutely ridiculous for many parts of the county. I don't think the center model should go on relatively unchanged for the reasons I stated above. I don't have a problem with centers remaining is the less affluent areas, but I do have a problem with people in areas with a critical mass piggy backing on that and saying nothing should be changed anywhere.

I was that PP -- the portion of the post I bolded said that the AAP kids are no longer "nerds" or "outcasts" but are mainstream regular kids, and they have a peer group. PP seemed to imply that we should break up their peer group and turn them back into nerds and outcasts, rather than mainstream kids. You're saying that some center schools are too large, and the AAP kids would not be nerds or outcasts at their base schools. Out of 120-some elementary schools, that seems optimistic to me. (I am coming from the perspective of the part of FCPS where only handfuls of kids from each ES go to the center schools, so sending them back to their base school would have a different effect than the large center schools in your area.)

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that arguing that AAP-eligible kids would be nerds or outcasts at their base school is just a clever way of arguing they deserve favorable treatment. It sounds better than explicitly arguing that the other kids are a bunch of Neanderthals, but the intent is essentially the same. You're just prepared to use slightly pejorative language about your own kids to secure the same special benefits denied other children. There are very few children who really have the combination of smarts and idiosyncrasies that would lead them to be ostracized in a typical classroom, if they were properly socialized, but AAP parents have a vested interest in making sure the skin of their children remains very thin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

I'm the PP you quoted and nowhere did I say that I expect your "FCAG dues and volunteer time" to go towards lobbying FCPS on behalf of Gen Ed students. I'm curious, however, why any private group is allowed to lobby a public school system at all. Seems to me FCPS shouldn't be swayed by a group with no public school affiliation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

They regularly submit FOIA requests and effectively sell FCPS data that isn't already publicly disclosed to members who want additional information about FCPS. Their presentations, on the other hand, suffer from the same defects as their petitions.

It will be a delight to see FCPS cut back on AAP in the future years. It's unfortunate that it's taking a budget crisis to effect changes that should have already been made to restore some sanity to the system.

Absolutely agree. It's just too bad these much-needed changes are coming too late for my own children to benefit. Elementary and middle school would have been much better experiences for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

They regularly submit FOIA requests and effectively sell FCPS data that isn't already publicly disclosed to members who want additional information about FCPS. Their presentations, on the other hand, suffer from the same defects as their petitions.

It will be a delight to see FCPS cut back on AAP in the future years. It's unfortunate that it's taking a budget crisis to effect changes that should have already been made to restore some sanity to the system.

Once again-- it's not like FCPS is agreeing to FCAG's FOIA request and denying yours. Putting the FOIA request together is labor intensively and sometimes expensive. Why should FCAG do it for you? If you want the data, pay the $10 and join FCAG, and you can get it. Or quit being lazy and submit your own request. No one is withholding the info from you-- you just aren't asking for it.

Oh, and BTW, FCAG does compile and release a lot of information to the general public. They release TJ feeder data immediately to everyone. Same with SAT data. Ap/IB pass rates are on their web site, except for the most recent couple of years. You seem to expect a lot from an organization that you don't belong to that is not funded by your tax dollars.

Wow. Not the PP, but this is rich coming from the AAP crowd who think nothing of demanding ever more from a public school system whose tax dollars are supplied by many parents, not just those with AAP kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gifted lobby in Fairfax is astoundingly tone-deaf. It springs from their fundamentally wanting to hold their children out as better than others, so they've developed a way of speaking that simply astounds anyone who's not in their small circle.

It's an environment in which making preposterous claims about your own child's intelligence and desperate need for a "special" program is the price of admission; where the needs of most kids are, at best, disregarded and, at worst, considered entirely undeserving of attention; and where the poor are generally looked down upon, but occasionally acknowledged when they provide useful fodder for talking points.

Best post ever. +100000

X100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

Are those of us who have kids who are not given a choice of schools really supposed to care that you find removing the center option "unfair"? Can you, for one moment, put yourself in the shoes of the rest of us who might prefer to send our children to a different school, but because they aren't in AAP, are not offered any such choice? Enough with your whining. What would be fair is to either offer all children the choice between two schools, or give no children this choice.