Petition to Keep Centers - Hypocritical?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

In other words, I stand corrected and have no intelligent response to this. Let me scramble for something to criticize. Ah, yes, FCAG's failure to impress me. That'll do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

They regularly submit FOIA requests and effectively sell FCPS data that isn't already publicly disclosed to members who want additional information about FCPS. Their presentations, on the other hand, suffer from the same defects as their petitions.

It will be a delight to see FCPS cut back on AAP in the future years. It's unfortunate that it's taking a budget crisis to effect changes that should have already been made to restore some sanity to the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

They regularly submit FOIA requests and effectively sell FCPS data that isn't already publicly disclosed to members who want additional information about FCPS. Their presentations, on the other hand, suffer from the same defects as their petitions.

It will be a delight to see FCPS cut back on AAP in the future years. It's unfortunate that it's taking a budget crisis to effect changes that should have already been made to restore some sanity to the system.

Once again-- it's not like FCPS is agreeing to FCAG's FOIA request and denying yours. Putting the FOIA request together is labor intensively and sometimes expensive. Why should FCAG do it for you? If you want the data, pay the $10 and join FCAG, and you can get it. Or quit being lazy and submit your own request. No one is withholding the info from you-- you just aren't asking for it.

Oh, and BTW, FCAG does compile and release a lot of information to the general public. They release TJ feeder data immediately to everyone. Same with SAT data. Ap/IB pass rates are on their web site, except for the most recent couple of years. You seem to expect a lot from an organization that you don't belong to that is not funded by your tax dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I'm just sick to death of the ever-vocal FCAG demanding this and that of a PUBLIC school system, with seemingly no interest whatsoever in improving the education of all the other non-AAP students. I would never in a million years sign one of their petitions.

Well, FCAG is a PRIVATE association of parents of gifted kids-- no affiliation with FCPS. You pay due sand they do not get any tax dollars. One of their primary purposes is to lobby for gifted education in FCPS. I don't see how they are different than any other lobbyists or why they would lobby for Gen Ed. It's not their purpose-- and in this case may be contrary to their interests. It would be like the athletic boosters, who are trying to keep high school sports in the budget, being expected to lobby to keep funding for the band and strings program.

If you think someone needs to lobby for Gen Ed, quit spending so much time bitching on DCUM and form a group to lobby for the interest of FCPS Gen Ed. Collect dues, develop a platform, commission studies and have members testify at school board meetings. Nobody is stopping you from organizing Gen Ed parents and expressing your opion or lobbying for your kids. But if you are too lazy to do this, I don't understand why you expect my FCAG dues and volunteer time should go towards doing it for you.

Uh, huh. Well, say what you will, fewer than 350 signatures is pretty lame given how many AAP kids there are in FCPS. As an advocacy group, they are one of the less impressive ones around.

I belong, and I actually agree that they do a terrible job with petitions. But they are very effective at surveying members, commissioning studies, getting info from FCPS and compiling things like AP/ IB pass rates, TJ feeder school data and average class size of AAP Center vs LLIV vs Gen Ed. They also consistently have people put together effective presentations and testify at school board meetings. So, they do some things effectively.

They regularly submit FOIA requests and effectively sell FCPS data that isn't already publicly disclosed to members who want additional information about FCPS. Their presentations, on the other hand, suffer from the same defects as their petitions.

It will be a delight to see FCPS cut back on AAP in the future years. It's unfortunate that it's taking a budget crisis to effect changes that should have already been made to restore some sanity to the system.

Once again-- it's not like FCPS is agreeing to FCAG's FOIA request and denying yours. Putting the FOIA request together is labor intensively and sometimes expensive. Why should FCAG do it for you? If you want the data, pay the $10 and join FCAG, and you can get it. Or quit being lazy and submit your own request. No one is withholding the info from you-- you just aren't asking for it.

Oh, and BTW, FCAG does compile and release a lot of information to the general public. They release TJ feeder data immediately to everyone. Same with SAT data. Ap/IB pass rates are on their web site, except for the most recent couple of years. You seem to expect a lot from an organization that you don't belong to that is not funded by your tax dollars.

Much of the data gets into the general domain eventually. It's not like FCAG members have to sign confidentiality agreements to obtain it, and much of the same data is disclosed in response to separate FOIA requests from the media.

So, no, I won't be ponying up money for FCAG. The most useful service they provide is regularly demonstrating how myopic some AAP parents are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The gifted lobby in Fairfax is astoundingly tone-deaf. It springs from their fundamentally wanting to hold their children out as better than others, so they've developed a way of speaking that simply astounds anyone who's not in their small circle.

It's an environment in which making preposterous claims about your own child's intelligence and desperate need for a "special" program is the price of admission; where the needs of most kids are, at best, disregarded and, at worst, considered entirely undeserving of attention; and where the poor are generally looked down upon, but occasionally acknowledged when they provide useful fodder for talking points.

Best post ever. +100000

[Anonymous]

My child goes to one of the most economically diverse centers with many more ELL learners and taking away the busing means those children cannot get to their center school. A lot has been done at the feeder schools to use the Young Scholars program and other paths to get more chidren from lower income families into our center and it will be such a shame to see them not there next year if the busing is cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child goes to one of the most economically diverse centers with many more ELL learners and taking away the busing means those children cannot get to their center school. A lot has been done at the feeder schools to use the Young Scholars program and other paths to get more chidren from lower income families into our center and it will be such a shame to see them not there next year if the busing is cut.

I agree with you. Yet (some of?) the Colvn Run parents will not care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child goes to one of the most economically diverse centers with many more ELL learners and taking away the busing means those children cannot get to their center school. A lot has been done at the feeder schools to use the Young Scholars program and other paths to get more chidren from lower income families into our center and it will be such a shame to see them not there next year if the busing is cut.

FCPS will not cut buses to center schools like this. They won't put local level IV in the feeder schools to these centers because they don't think there is a critical mass, so they will be essentially violating the requirement of providing gifted education to these kids if they eliminate bus service to centers and then don't provide local level IV. They can get away with eliminating buses to affluent centers because they have local level IV in the feeders and so are meeting their legal requirement to provide gifted education to those kids.

[Anonymous]

^^^and this is fair because why????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

Because FCPS is choosing not to put local level IV in those schools. How would it be fair to offer local level IV in affluent feeders and not in less affluent ones, and then deny busing to the kids at the less affluent ones who are way less likely to be able to provide transportation to the centers for themselves? If FCPS puts local level IV in all schools, then you are right, it wouldn't be fair to offer center transportation to some and not others. As they have chosen not to put level IV in some of the less affluent schools, they need to live up to not only the word of the legal requirement to provide gifted education, but also the spirit of the law. The fairness problem would be easily solved by putting local level IV in all schools and denying busing to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^and this is fair because why????

It is fair because it means that students that qualify for Level IV services get them. Think of it as expanding the Center school model to more schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the petition:

"Anyone with an AAP kid knows that they might feel like a “nerd” or outcast when they are in the minority. But at a Center school, where most kids are like them, they “fit in” and thrive."

The AAP kids of today are no longer the "nerds" (using their words, not mine) of GT programs from a decade ago. They are completely mainstream, involved in sports and other activities. And why is this? Because AAP has opened up the program to vast numbers of kids over the years, kids who wouldn't have otherwise been identified as "gifted". It is moronic to claim that these are the outcasts, the "nerds" who need their "peer group". These kids are as mainstream as any others and their peer groups are found everywhere - yes, even in the base schools.

Enough with this attitude that AAP kids are some sort of special breed who must be hot-housed with other AAP kids lest they not reach their "potential". It has become such a crock of B.S.

This shows that the program works very well and succeeds in its purpose. This means the program should continue relatively unchanged.

This response is a great example of why people hate AAP parents. If there is now a significantly larger number of kids getting in, the logical step is to get rid of centers because they don't need to bus kids to centers to get a critical mass of peers with similar ability. Centers were created to provide kids will a similar peer group. If AAP has expanded to include so many kids, the center model is entirely unnecessary. You can't even argue that the center model should be kept because of the profoundly gifted kids because they most certainly aren't being served by the current center model because they are now placed in a class including a ton of moderately gifted kids, rather than one with kids of their ability.