Indian girls and being chaperoned?

[Anonymous]

OP I got you. Middle Eastern background and there are definitely Middle Eastern families that would pull something like this. I wouldn't have been offended if you had called her Arab girl as shorthand.

It is not up to you to talk to the parents. The teacher or whoever the school sponsor is should talk to the parent and say that if the girl cannot participate without all these restrictions she cannot participate at all.

If the parents really feel the need for her to be chaperoned, they should quietly attend every meeting at other children's houses. And of course, they have to let the parent coach attend if it is at their house. That would be a reasonable accommodation of any culturally-based need.

[Anonymous]

OP, my best friend growing up (admittedly years ago) in middle and high school was Indian, and she had the stereotypical overprotective recent immigrant Indian parents who were exactly as you are describing. She joked about it, all her Indian girl friends lamented it. They did not let their girls do ANYTHING without a parent or grandparent or older family member along to chaperone. They did let up slightly in high school and become more assimilated when it was time to send her away to college which they relented and allowed her to live 2 hours away from home (but visited often!)

Yes, this is a cultural thing, despite so many posters telling you it's just your own personal experience with 5 Indian families and how they treat their daughters.

As for how to handle this particular girl, as you say, don't focus on her being Indian, focus on how this is unacceptable that she can't meet anywhere but home, that at her home there isn't a parent or someone who is fluent in English supervising the children and they won't let coaches attend there. Sorry. They state their preferences, you state yours. This girl should not be on your team. She can't meet and she can't host. Too bad for her but there is no reason to make allowances for what may or may not be bias against non-family members. What on earth do her parents think would happen is all 20 kids refused to meet anywhere but their own homes for Pete's sake?

[Anonymous]

This girl's family is making it impossible for her to be on the team. I would not be comfortable if my child were at a house where the only responsible adult doesn't speak English. And I don't understand why the coaches are barred, but that seems like a condition that could put the team at a disadvantage. Plus you always have to deal with transportation rather than taking turns hosting. All in all, HG is not a good fit for this team, and it's her parents' fault. They gave to make a choice between their requirement and the girl bring on the team at all.

Btw, I don't think you're being racist. Sounds like you're trying to see if there are any cultural issues around which you would tread lightly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my best friend growing up (admittedly years ago) in middle and high school was Indian, and she had the stereotypical overprotective recent immigrant Indian parents who were exactly as you are describing. She joked about it, all her Indian girl friends lamented it. They did not let their girls do ANYTHING without a parent or grandparent or older family member along to chaperone. They did let up slightly in high school and become more assimilated when it was time to send her away to college which they relented and allowed her to live 2 hours away from home (but visited often!)

Yes, this is a cultural thing, despite so many posters telling you it's just your own personal experience with 5 Indian families and how they treat their daughters.

As for how to handle this particular girl, as you say, don't focus on her being Indian, focus on how this is unacceptable that she can't meet anywhere but home, that at her home there isn't a parent or someone who is fluent in English supervising the children and they won't let coaches attend there. Sorry. They state their preferences, you state yours. This girl should not be on your team. She can't meet and she can't host. Too bad for her but there is no reason to make allowances for what may or may not be bias against non-family members. What on earth do her parents think would happen is all 20 kids refused to meet anywhere but their own homes for Pete's sake?

Because you had one friend like this you know more than those of us who are Indian-Americn who grew up with traditional Indian immigrant parents? Such hubris.

[Anonymous]

There was a Greek girl at my law school who was not allowed out after dark without a parent chaperone...as an adult woman. Made Moot Court exciting.

[Anonymous]

Riddle me this DCUM. Our family is Indian. DD, who is now late ES, had a "best friend" (White girl) who lived in out neighborhood for several years before she moved. Although she and DD could meet up on the playground, with the friend's mom watching, DF (dear friend) was never allowed to come over to our house-- not even for DD's birthday party. In fact, DD so wanted DF at her birthday party (which was at our house), that I extended the invitation to the DF's mother as well, and told her she was welcome to stay for the whole thing. I always thought the mom was a bit overprotective, because DD had her other neighborhood friends come over to play without a problem, and DF was prohibited from visiting other homes in the neighborhood too.

Fast forward to this year. DS, who is in late MS, is on a very competitive academic team, that practices about 15 hours a week outside of school, often at team members' homes. One of the members of the team is a White girl (WG). The entire team managed to coordinate the timing for several practices at the homes of various team members (once at our home, and the home of another team member). I made it clear that I would be home while they practiced, and offered to provide pizza & snacks so they could work through dinner. It seemed like it was settled, when WG's mother stepped in and said that WG could only meet with the team via Skype from her home. For logistical reasons, this doesn't work, and all of the members of the team have to be present for practice. When the head coach said that all team members must be present in person or they would be dropped, the mother agreed-- but only if the team practices are at WG's house. Weirdly, neither the mother nor the father can be present-- just the grandmother, who doesn't speak much. Additionally, Also, some of the parents have volunteered and scheduled to act as coaches (DH was supposed to coach one night), but WG's mother has said that parent coaches "aren't necessary" (they are) and should not attend.

This isn't the only time I have run into this. Twice last year, once for Science Olympiad for DD (who was in 5th) and once for a group school project for DS (who was in 7th), parents of White Girls refused to allow them to come to our house (Science Olympiad) or the house of a team member (the group project), which caused a lot if inconvenience, and made it hard for the kids to do their projects. For my DD's birthday party last year (a different party) a different IG as not allowed to come (not had a conflict-- not allowed).

My question: what the he** is going on? Since I have an 11 year old DD, I understand the need to exercise caution, and I don't casually let he go to stranger's houses. But we live in a typical, safe upper middle class Fairfax County neighborhood, are involved in our children's schools and never invite other children to come over to our house unless there is a parent home (usually me). As our DC's get older, they hare having more and more group projects or extracurricular activities that require the kids to meet outside of school-- which seems reasonable to me if I verify that a project exists, take the child to the house, meet the parent, leave them with a phone, etc. Other parents with kids in the same age range (11-14) seem to feel the same way. So what's up with the parents of White Girls? This keeps happening-- and not just when it's our home. Honestly, I'm getting a little pissed off. So what's the reasonable explanation?
---------------------------------------
Responses:

White person here- this is atypical and not indicative of White culture.

White person here- this is not my experience, but there may be some families more strict than others, I've know a few. Please don't generalize all Whites.

White person here- this isn't a White thing but a family thing.

Indian person here- it's definitely cultural, I knew one White family that did the same thing.

Indian person here- I knew someone in high school whose White family was very strict like this. Definitely a White thing.

Indian person- I don't know anyone like that, but if the Indian OP has had this experience with a few White girls, than it's definitely a White culture thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, the nationality of the child does not matter. Is there any way for this one girl to be on a different team? It seems that the constraints the parents would like to place on the rest of the team members will make it difficult for the team to work in the way it is meant to. Or, in the alternative, is there another team for your son?

If this is a team effort, it doesn't seem appropriate for one set of parents to set out different rules than the Olympiad rules.

I agree with this poster. This family's rules, regardless of their ethnicity, seem like an undue imposition on the rest of the team.

+2. This family's rules are not amenable to their DD participating. It's on them. BTW, I'm Indian-American growing up in the 1970s-80s, and I've never heard of anyone among our ethnic cohort with similar rules. I did see something similar but not so extreme with some very religious families of various religions, and sadly, families with domineering fathers.

+3 Not amenable.

It's really not about nationality or immigrant status. It sounds as though the OP was asking if this was something the team should make allowances for so as to be respectful of the child's culture. Clearly, it is not part of the child's culture, so the thing to do is talk to the parents and let them know that the child needs to be able to participate without any undue restrictions as to meeting place or presence of coaches. Either you participate under the same rules as all the other members of the team or don't participate at all.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I think the majority of white respondents would say, they must come from some weird Christian cult.

Odd though that they care about their daughter being on an academic team. Most of them don't see the point of much academics, especially for girls since their main role is to have babies. She should be dropped from the team because her parents are making life impossible for all the other team members.

Too bad for the girl, though, as its probably one of the few chances she has to mingle with others of her academic abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not what parents of "IGs" do. This is what a few parents you have run into did with respect to the dealings you had with them.

I am Indian-American and was allowed to go to the houses of all my female friends, including tons of sleepovers. I was allowed to go to any school or extracurricular meetings at any person's house.

I have coached Science Olympiad teams at the elementary level and had many Indian kids on the team. I have never run into this problem with their assigned meetings or mentors.

Back away from the generalizations.

+100.

Hang on a sec. I am not generalizing or trying to criticize, or whatever. And I am trying to shorten words to type faster, not be snarky. But all told, I have run into 5 situations , all involving different girls, in the last couple of years. The one involving DS's academic team will probably continue this entire year. Since we need to make this work for all team members, I am genuinely trying to understand what is going on; and what I can do about it. Also, I'm a little uncomfortable dropping DS off twice a week at a home where I cannot communicate with the responsible adult(s). And having the coaches blocked from attending is a problem. We are going to have a much easier year if the team can meet at different homes, the coaches have access to coach, etc. In the current situation, we have one set of parents making things difficult for an entire group of kids. I'm sure there are thousands of Indian Girls in FCPS who do not have overprotective parents. This isn't about them. This is me trying to understand the cultural issues at play. And implying I'm racist because I'm running into these issues doesn't help. (If anything, the parents who won't let a child study at my house, with me home to chaperone teenage children are the racist ones). Seriously DCUM: why is this happening, and what can I do to make things easier?

Ask the parents! Pretty simple. And sorry, you may not be a racist but you are rude. I guess all black kids steal too, right?

Sh*t! I completely missed this! The kids have finished practiced and left for the night. Since it's too late to do a strip search as the black kids leave, I am going to be up half the night counting the family heirloom silver, inventorying the jewelry, and counting the change & cash we keep on hand (extra quarters) You could have said something sooner and saved me a lot of time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not what parents of "IGs" do. This is what a few parents you have run into did with respect to the dealings you had with them.

I am Indian-American and was allowed to go to the houses of all my female friends, including tons of sleepovers. I was allowed to go to any school or extracurricular meetings at any person's house.

I have coached Science Olympiad teams at the elementary level and had many Indian kids on the team. I have never run into this problem with their assigned meetings or mentors.

Back away from the generalizations.

+1000!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riddle me this DCUM. Our family is white. DD, who is now late ES, had a "best friend" (Indian girl) who lived in out neighborhood for several years before she moved. Although she and DD could meet up on the playground, with the friend's mom watching, DF (dear friend) was never allowed to come over to our house-- not even for DD's birthday party. In fact, DD so wanted DF at her birthday party (which was at our house), that I extended the invitation to the DF's mother as well, and told her she was welcome to stay for the whole thing. I always thought the mom was a bit overprotective, because DD had her other neighborhood friends come over to play without a problem, and DF was prohibited from visiting other homes in the neighborhood too.

Fast forward to this year. DS, who is in late MS, is on a very competitive academic team, that practices about 15 hours a week outside of school, often at team members' homes. One of the members of the team is an Indian girl (IG). The entire team managed to coordinate the timing for several practices at the homes of various team members (once at our home, and the home of another team member). I made it clear that I would be home while they practiced, and offered to provide pizza & snacks so they could work through dinner. It seemed like it was settled, when IG's mother stepped in and said that IG could only meet with the team via Skype from her home. For logistical reasons, this doesn't work, and all of the members of the team have to be present for practice. When the head coach said that all team members must be present in person or they would be dropped, the mother agreed-- but only if the team practices are at IG's house. Weirdly, neither the mother nor the father can be present-- just the grandmother, who has minimal English (which makes me a little uncomfortable). Additionally, Also, some of the parents have volunteered and scheduled to act as coaches (DH was supposed to coach one night), but IG's mother has said that parent coaches "aren't necessary" (they are) and should not attend.

This isn't the only time I have run into this. Twice last year, once for Science Olympiad for DD (who was in 5th) and once for a group school project for DS (who was in 7th), parents of Indian Girls refused to allow them to come to our house (Science Olympiad) or the house of a team member (the group project), which caused a lot if inconvenience, and made it hard for the kids to do their projects. For my DD's birthday party last year (a different party) a different IG as not allowed to come (not had a conflict-- not allowed).

My question: what the he** is going on? Since I have an 11 year old DD, I understand the need to exercise caution, [u]and I don't casually let he go to stranger's houses. But we live in a typical, safe upper middle class Fairfax County neighborhood, are involved in our children's schools and never invite other children to come over to our house unless there is a parent home (usually me). As our DC's get older, they hare having more and more group projects or extracurricular activities that require the kids to meet outside of school-- which seems reasonable to me if I verify that a project exists, take the child to the house, meet the parent, leave them with a phone, etc. Other parents with kids in the same age range (11-14) seem to feel the same way. So what's up with the parents of Indian Girls? This keeps happening-- and not just when it's our home. Honestly, I'm getting a little pissed off. So what's the reasonable explanation?

Sounds like you already know the answer to your question. These families exercise caution differently from you. Assume they have a valid reason and go with a good heart and mind onward. Would you feel differently knowing the mother, of whatever nationality, felt this way because she was gang raped during a "study session" when she was 12? They offered their home and presumably your child will be fine even if the grandma doesn't speak much English, no?

I'm actually a little concerned about someone chaperoning a group of American teenagers if they don't speak English. But more concerning, the designated Coach is not welcome in the home and no, grandma cannot be a team coach and help the team on the substantive issues this competition, which is of the speech & debate variety, unless she speaks English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riddle me this DCUM. Our family is white. DD, who is now late ES, had a "best friend" (Indian girl) who lived in out neighborhood for several years before she moved. Although she and DD could meet up on the playground, with the friend's mom watching, DF (dear friend) was never allowed to come over to our house-- not even for DD's birthday party. In fact, DD so wanted DF at her birthday party (which was at our house), that I extended the invitation to the DF's mother as well, and told her she was welcome to stay for the whole thing. I always thought the mom was a bit overprotective, because DD had her other neighborhood friends come over to play without a problem, and DF was prohibited from visiting other homes in the neighborhood too.

Fast forward to this year. DS, who is in late MS, is on a very competitive academic team, that practices about 15 hours a week outside of school, often at team members' homes. One of the members of the team is an Indian girl (IG). The entire team managed to coordinate the timing for several practices at the homes of various team members (once at our home, and the home of another team member). I made it clear that I would be home while they practiced, and offered to provide pizza & snacks so they could work through dinner. It seemed like it was settled, when IG's mother stepped in and said that IG could only meet with the team via Skype from her home. For logistical reasons, this doesn't work, and all of the members of the team have to be present for practice. When the head coach said that all team members must be present in person or they would be dropped, the mother agreed-- but only if the team practices are at IG's house. Weirdly, neither the mother nor the father can be present-- just the grandmother, who has minimal English (which makes me a little uncomfortable). Additionally, Also, some of the parents have volunteered and scheduled to act as coaches (DH was supposed to coach one night), but IG's mother has said that parent coaches "aren't necessary" (they are) and should not attend.

This isn't the only time I have run into this. Twice last year, once for Science Olympiad for DD (who was in 5th) and once for a group school project for DS (who was in 7th), parents of Indian Girls refused to allow them to come to our house (Science Olympiad) or the house of a team member (the group project), which caused a lot if inconvenience, and made it hard for the kids to do their projects. For my DD's birthday party last year (a different party) a different IG as not allowed to come (not had a conflict-- not allowed).

My question: what the he** is going on? Since I have an 11 year old DD, I understand the need to exercise caution, [u]and I don't casually let he go to stranger's houses. But we live in a typical, safe upper middle class Fairfax County neighborhood, are involved in our children's schools and never invite other children to come over to our house unless there is a parent home (usually me). As our DC's get older, they hare having more and more group projects or extracurricular activities that require the kids to meet outside of school-- which seems reasonable to me if I verify that a project exists, take the child to the house, meet the parent, leave them with a phone, etc. Other parents with kids in the same age range (11-14) seem to feel the same way. So what's up with the parents of Indian Girls? This keeps happening-- and not just when it's our home. Honestly, I'm getting a little pissed off. So what's the reasonable explanation?

Sounds like you already know the answer to your question. These families exercise caution differently from you. Assume they have a valid reason and go with a good heart and mind onward. Would you feel differently knowing the mother, of whatever nationality, felt this way because she was gang raped during a "study session" when she was 12? They offered their home and presumably your child will be fine even if the grandma doesn't speak much English, no?

I'm actually a little concerned about someone chaperoning a group of American teenagers if they don't speak English. But more concerning, the designated Coach is not welcome in the home and no, grandma cannot be a team coach and help the team on the substantive issues this competition, which is of the speech & debate variety, unless she speaks English.

Why? Doesn't your teen stay alone ever? The head coach isn't needed at each session. You're looking for problems...and found them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Riddle me this DCUM. Our family is white. DD, who is now late ES, had a "best friend" (Indian girl) who lived in out neighborhood for several years before she moved. Although she and DD could meet up on the playground, with the friend's mom watching, DF (dear friend) was never allowed to come over to our house-- not even for DD's birthday party. In fact, DD so wanted DF at her birthday party (which was at our house), that I extended the invitation to the DF's mother as well, and told her she was welcome to stay for the whole thing. I always thought the mom was a bit overprotective, because DD had her other neighborhood friends come over to play without a problem, and DF was prohibited from visiting other homes in the neighborhood too.

Fast forward to this year. DS, who is in late MS, is on a very competitive academic team, that practices about 15 hours a week outside of school, often at team members' homes. One of the members of the team is an Indian girl (IG). The entire team managed to coordinate the timing for several practices at the homes of various team members (once at our home, and the home of another team member). I made it clear that I would be home while they practiced, and offered to provide pizza & snacks so they could work through dinner. It seemed like it was settled, when IG's mother stepped in and said that IG could only meet with the team via Skype from her home. For logistical reasons, this doesn't work, and all of the members of the team have to be present for practice. When the head coach said that all team members must be present in person or they would be dropped, the mother agreed-- but only if the team practices are at IG's house. Weirdly, neither the mother nor the father can be present-- just the grandmother, who has minimal English (which makes me a little uncomfortable). Additionally, Also, some of the parents have volunteered and scheduled to act as coaches (DH was supposed to coach one night), but IG's mother has said that parent coaches "aren't necessary" (they are) and should not attend.

This isn't the only time I have run into this. Twice last year, once for Science Olympiad for DD (who was in 5th) and once for a group school project for DS (who was in 7th), parents of Indian Girls refused to allow them to come to our house (Science Olympiad) or the house of a team member (the group project), which caused a lot if inconvenience, and made it hard for the kids to do their projects. For my DD's birthday party last year (a different party) a different IG as not allowed to come (not had a conflict-- not allowed).

My question: what the he** is going on? Since I have an 11 year old DD, I understand the need to exercise caution, and I don't casually let he go to stranger's houses. But we live in a typical, safe upper middle class Fairfax County neighborhood, are involved in our children's schools and never invite other children to come over to our house unless there is a parent home (usually me). As our DC's get older, they hare having more and more group projects or extracurricular activities that require the kids to meet outside of school-- which seems reasonable to me if I verify that a project exists, take the child to the house, meet the parent, leave them with a phone, etc. Other parents with kids in the same age range (11-14) seem to feel the same way. So what's up with the parents of Indian Girls? This keeps happening-- and not just when it's our home. Honestly, I'm getting a little pissed off. So what's the reasonable explanation?

Given the situation, I think the girl's parents should have been told this is the setup for practices, either your child joins this setup or she doesn't participate. That's what I would have done.

And yes, it's cultural. Feel free to ask them or ask their DD, I have not doubt they will start the explanation with either "in my/our country, girls do not...." or " in my/our culture, girls do not..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Because you had one friend like this you know more than those of us who are Indian-Americn who grew up with traditional Indian immigrant parents? Such hubris.

Oh come on. I had an Indian American best friend, and hung out with her and a lot of her Indian American girl friends and they ALL complained-joked about how strict their parents were with them (but not their brothers). Some more than others, but still. They weren't allowed to go to sleepovers (except with other Indian kids), to go out with a bunch of kids, to date, or to go on school ski trips or school overnight trips.

I also knew this friend when we went to college together and saw her and her Indian American friends there (in the Indian American Club) where they talked about getting away from their overly protective parents.

Am I saying they all were not allowed to go to a teens house for an academic club. No that seems extreme. But there was a level of more over protectiveness than was considered usual for the rest of the kids in our town or area. That's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Because you had one friend like this you know more than those of us who are Indian-Americn who grew up with traditional Indian immigrant parents? Such hubris.

Oh come on. I had an Indian American best friend, and hung out with her and a lot of her Indian American girl friends and they ALL complained-joked about how strict their parents were with them (but not their brothers). Some more than others, but still. They weren't allowed to go to sleepovers (except with other Indian kids), to go out with a bunch of kids, to date, or to go on school ski trips or school overnight trips.

I also knew this friend when we went to college together and saw her and her Indian American friends there (in the Indian American Club) where they talked about getting away from their overly protective parents.

Am I saying they all were not allowed to go to a teens house for an academic club. No that seems extreme. But there was a level of more over protectiveness than was considered usual for the rest of the kids in our town or area. That's for sure.

Eh, I really do think it depends on your individual experience. My (Indian) parents were very traditional. They were completely fine with going to friends' houses, sleepovers, etc.,...until maybe end of middle school. Then they got super strict because they didn't like that American kids dated so much (or that's what my parents saw on TV). It was pretty shocking to have tons of freedom and then not have too much.

With that said, they never ever stopped me from doing anything academic or extra-curricular activity-related. I was allowed to do anything school-related, but I couldn't just go out with friends to the mall on Friday, etc. I don't know any Indian person who would want to put their child at a disadvantage like that; most Indian parents I know want their kids to have the competitive edge, ha. I would think that any parent who's that strict wouldn't even allow their daughter to do any extra-curriculars.

You should just talk to the coach/school and say the situation doesn't work. They do sound like recent immigrants, maybe in the last couple years?