sleep throught the night - again

[Anonymous]

I'm the pp that said I didn't read any of the books and can see a clear difference with my method vs DH method. I guess I did my own version of "CIO" and didn't really know that's what is was called. I didn't let DD cry for hours, but it certainly wasn't only for 60secs. I would go back in after a minute or so and make sure DD was okay and rub her back for a few secs telling her that it was night-night time. If she started crying when I left again, I would wait a little longer before I would go in again. I think this is similar to the "super nanny" approach.

It's very clear to DH and myself that he is doing what's easier for him (& not best for her) when she cries. She knows exactly what she is doing when she cries for him and he comes running to her. She definetly gets less sleep those nights - she tries to keep herself awake so he will keep rocking her.

Before you go there - she is not starved for attention from either one of us. She goes to a small home d/c with a lot of individual attention and we stagger our work skeds so she is not even in d/c a full day. DH spends all AM with her (doesn't drop her off until 1015am) and I pick her up b/w 3-4pm and spend most evenings with her. We have never gotten a babysitter to go out alone (only a few times to cover an hour gap between my grad class at night and his returning home in the PM). So, b/c we used a version of "CIO" I don't think we are generally selfish people as pp stated and only do what's easier for us. We have no family in the area to help, so we do everything with our DD.

We are very loving towards our DD and I DH and I both are very close with our families. I do believe however, that a lot of peolple coddle their kids way to much these days and don't let them learn independence and set boudries for their kids at appropriate stages.

We are trying to teach our DD good manners, sleep habits, etc and it all starts at a very young age. Again, keeping things age appropriate.

We are no perfect parents and only have 1 child so far, but pp has a lot of nerve generalizing parents that do "CIO" as selfish.

I feel you are being selfish by not giving your baby a little independence and setting age-appropriate boundries for your child. That's why some of these kids are such brats these days. You are the parents and you should do what's best for them. I think helping my DD develop self-soothing techniques are giving my DD skills, not being selfish.

Trust me that it's harder work to go this route than rock her to sleep for hours. That's the cop-out way instead of working with your child and trying to figure out when they really need comforting (sick, etc) and when they need boundries.

[Anonymous]

I feel you are being selfish by not giving your baby a little independence and setting age-appropriate boundries for your child. That's why some of these kids are such brats these days. You are the parents and you should do what's best for them. I think helping my DD develop self-soothing techniques are giving my DD skills, not being selfish.

Trust me that it's harder work to go this route than rock her to sleep for hours. That's the cop-out way instead of working with your child and trying to figure out when they really need comforting (sick, etc) and when they need boundries.

Can't you possibly admit that just as sleep-training parents are not cruel, nor are non-trainers neglectful doormats destined to raise juvenile delinquents? My baby is one. We have not "sleep trained" him, we have no desire to, so why should we? That said, we don't let him chew on power cords, bite us, scream, play with our eyeglasses, or do any number of things WE have decided are inappropriate or dangerous. Your statements are a little offensive and more than a little ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Probably not what you want to hear, but our daughter at close to 5 still does not sleep consistently through the night. She did start to about a year ago, but then we moved, and others things threw her off. At this point, however, the wakings are generally minimally disruptive (unless she has to go to the bathroom).

[Anonymous]

My mother readily admits that -back in the 70's- she would stick me in my crib for naps, close the door and go about her business without any regard to whether I was crying or not. She'd leave me there for an hour or more. Guess what? I don't remember a second of it. Anyone who thinks that their child will be scarred for life for a little bit of crying is really imputing their own fears and apprehensions to their children. If you don't want to do any CIO, FINE!!! It makes no difference to me one way or the other. But, to use words like "neglect" and "selfish" is ignorant and just plain wrong.

I found Ferber and, esp. Weissbluth, to both be very knowledgeable and compassionate with re: to sleeping and sleep training. Anyone who has read EITHER of these books and claims that they advocate CIO for hours at a time either cannot read or is not capable of addressing this issue with exaggerating and drama. Neither advocate that. That some parents do that . . . that may be true but they are not in keeping with either of those books.

The fact is, there are MANY degrees of CIO. To lump all sleep training together is a mistake. And, it's just plain inaccurate. . . .

As to the OP, each child is different but I do believe that many children do not sleep through the night (in a real sense not a medical sense) until anywhere from 5-9 mos. However, again, this varies . . . and if you don't want to CIO, don't. Do what's best for you. Realize, however, you will have to wait it out until your child is ready and capable of putting him/herself to sleep.

[Anonymous]

Those sleep books are all a bunch of horsesh*t. They sure have found a bunch of suckers who cannot seem to trust their instincts without a manual to buy them though. After suffering through a few BORING, repetitive, & unenlightening pages written by these "experts" I finally accepted that raising children is hard work and that my sleep would be sacrificed until my child grew old enough to not be scared, hungry, or in pain when waking in the middle of the night. Once you relinquish the need to control, life become a lot easier.

For the record I am an insomniac and my mom always bragged what a wonderful sleeper I was as a baby; I became unable to sleep when I was an adult. The stupid argument that you have to “train” your baby to sleep or else it will have disastrous consequences is only meant to cause parental anxiety and sell more silly books! Take a class on media and how fear drives sales.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those sleep books are all a bunch of horsesh*t. They sure have found a bunch of suckers who cannot seem to trust their instincts without a manual to buy them though. After suffering through a few BORING, repetitive, & unenlightening pages written by these "experts" I finally accepted that raising children is hard work and that my sleep would be sacrificed until my child grew old enough to not be scared, hungry, or in pain when waking in the middle of the night. Once you relinquish the need to control, life become a lot easier.

For the record I am an insomniac and my mom always bragged what a wonderful sleeper I was as a baby; I became unable to sleep when I was an adult. The stupid argument that you have to “train” your baby to sleep or else it will have disastrous consequences is only meant to cause parental anxiety and sell more silly books! Take a class on media and how fear drives sales.

Your insomnia may come from your anger issues. There is no need to attack people that have found success with books. Just because you don't believe in them, doesn't make them invalid. Dr. Weissbluth is in fact a doctor. So if you think your pediatrician is full of crap, you should definitely abandon taking your child in for medical help too.

I suggest Mr. Steele lock this. This thread has unfortunately been degraded by parents that are not getting enough sleep themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those sleep books are all a bunch of horsesh*t. They sure have found a bunch of suckers who cannot seem to trust their instincts without a manual to buy them though. After suffering through a few BORING, repetitive, & unenlightening pages written by these "experts" I finally accepted that raising children is hard work and that my sleep would be sacrificed until my child grew old enough to not be scared, hungry, or in pain when waking in the middle of the night. Once you relinquish the need to control, life become a lot easier.

For the record I am an insomniac and my mom always bragged what a wonderful sleeper I was as a baby; I became unable to sleep when I was an adult. The stupid argument that you have to “train” your baby to sleep or else it will have disastrous consequences is only meant to cause parental anxiety and sell more silly books! Take a class on media and how fear drives sales.

Your insomnia may come from your anger issues. There is no need to attack people that have found success with books. Just because you don't believe in them, doesn't make them invalid. Dr. Weissbluth is in fact a doctor. So if you think your pediatrician is full of crap, you should definitely abandon taking your child in for medical help too.

I suggest Mr. Steele lock this. This thread has unfortunately been degraded by parents that are not getting enough sleep themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those sleep books are all a bunch of horsesh*t. They sure have found a bunch of suckers who cannot seem to trust their instincts without a manual to buy them though. After suffering through a few BORING, repetitive, & unenlightening pages written by these "experts" I finally accepted that raising children is hard work and that my sleep would be sacrificed until my child grew old enough to not be scared, hungry, or in pain when waking in the middle of the night. Once you relinquish the need to control, life become a lot easier.

For the record I am an insomniac and my mom always bragged what a wonderful sleeper I was as a baby; I became unable to sleep when I was an adult. The stupid argument that you have to “train” your baby to sleep or else it will have disastrous consequences is only meant to cause parental anxiety and sell more silly books! Take a class on media and how fear drives sales.

Your insomnia may come from your anger issues. There is no need to attack people that have found success with books. Just because you don't believe in them, doesn't make them invalid. Dr. Weissbluth is in fact a doctor. So if you think your pediatrician is full of crap, you should definitely abandon taking your child in for medical help too.

I suggest Mr. Steele lock this. This thread has unfortunately been degraded by parents that are not getting enough sleep themselves.

Good suggestion- lets just end this conversation. This is coming from an overtired mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I feel you are being selfish by not giving your baby a little independence and setting age-appropriate boundries for your child. That's why some of these kids are such brats these days. You are the parents and you should do what's best for them. I think helping my DD develop self-soothing techniques are giving my DD skills, not being selfish.

Trust me that it's harder work to go this route than rock her to sleep for hours. That's the cop-out way instead of working with your child and trying to figure out when they really need comforting (sick, etc) and when they need boundries.

oh yeah, we're selfish b/c we get up out of bed to attend to our children's needs. have a good nights rest, lady, while your poor baby is afraid and screaming in his/her room by themselves! i bet you sleep in until like 7 too b/c god forbid that baby really needs to learn not to wake up and be hungry after being in bed for 12 hours. if this is how you have to justify leaving a baby to tend to its own needs, then so be it. nice try to say we are doing something wrong. yeah that 5 month old really needs some boundaries. too close to mom and dad and all. i mean, give me a break! i said i didn't think crying for a minute or two is bad, it is the people that allow them to cry for long periods of time - and there are parents that do that and they almost seem proud of it. scary!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suggest Mr. Steele lock this. This thread has unfortunately been degraded by parents that are not getting enough sleep themselves.

Wahhhhh

[Anonymous]

PP, this is from another parent that is thus far not going the CIO route with my child. YOU ARE NOT HELPING THIS CONVERSATION. Babies are different. Parents are different. Different parents have different values and priorities for their kids (independence, interdependence, security) and they can all be legitimate. I want for my own child to grow up with a generous heart and an ability to see an issue from someone else's point of view, and to realize that perspectives may be different for lots of reasons. That means I need to model that behavior for him. I can see that a different mom can make a difference choice than I do without my having to deem her evil in order to justify my own different point of view. Are you capable of doing the same? If not, can I ask that you leave this thread and perhaps start a new one advocating your position? I am afraid your lone voice has taken an otherwise helpful dialogue completely off the rails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, this is from another parent that is thus far not going the CIO route with my child. YOU ARE NOT HELPING THIS CONVERSATION. Babies are different. Parents are different. Different parents have different values and priorities for their kids (independence, interdependence, security) and they can all be legitimate. I want for my own child to grow up with a generous heart and an ability to see an issue from someone else's point of view, and to realize that perspectives may be different for lots of reasons. That means I need to model that behavior for him. I can see that a different mom can make a difference choice than I do without my having to deem her evil in order to justify my own different point of view. Are you capable of doing the same? If not, can I ask that you leave this thread and perhaps start a new one advocating your position? I am afraid your lone voice has taken an otherwise helpful dialogue completely off the rails.

i'll tell you why...many new moms look to these forums for advice and i want to be clear about giving my input to not only the op (who by the way said she was not doing cio) but to others who may or may not know that many of us feel and research shows that allowing a baby to cry for hours on its own is not good for its nervous system, self esteem, etc.. so i want to make a strong argument for new moms and anyone else out there that there are other options besides putting a baby in a crib to cry. i don't think they are evil and never said so. however, i do think it is wrong, just like i think other things are wrong and you i have the right and option apparently to say so. yes, there are different parenting styles, different ways of doing all sorts of things. most are just a matter of opinion. however, this for me is an issue which i strongly agree against and i am stating that. you know how driving kids around without seatbelts used to be the norm and ok until people began questioning it? that is how i feel about this subject. i feel that it is not okay and i think people should question it.

[Anonymous]

Were I a brand new mom looking for advice, I'd actually be extremely put off by your tone generally and might even write you off as irrational (as opposed to "passionate", which is what I presume you are going for but you are missing it by yards and yards). This does not help your cause. If you really want to persuade new mothers to your view please rethink your approach.

[Anonymous]

pp - who didn't read the books.

Those against CIO keep saying that they don't believe or they know from the research that it isn't good for any child to be put in their crib and cry for hours. I don't think any of the parents on this thread said they agree with letting a child CIO for hours on end.

There are those who will go for a short amount of time (60 seconds), others for a few mintutes, and still other for probably 15 mins or even a little longer. However, no one has stated that they feel you should dump your kid in their crib and walk away!

Get grib when talking about CIO. Again, not reading any of the books because I have to agree somewhat with the pp on all of those books just making everyone crazy, I usually let her go for a few minutes at a time, increasing the time and then i don't go back in there.

And for the pp who stated I must sleep in until 7am because I won't go to my child when she needs me - i get up before her on weekdays and weekends. She sleeps in on her own and she is not one to play in her crib when she gets up. She knows I will come get her when she wakes up in the AM. She knows the routine and is much happier in the AM.

[Anonymous]

"research shows that allowing a baby to cry for hours on its own is not good for its nervous system, self esteem, etc.."

Please state your research, 14:51 PP.

Also, please point to one poster on this thread that says they advocate dumping their kid in a crib to cry for hours on end. I still have not seen this phantom in ANY thread here on DCUM or in any of the books I read (and I read just about all of them.)