Social skills with NT kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been on this Forum for maybe 5 years. Can't count the number of moms who come on here and said that the kids in XYZ [PEP; social skills group; learning center; school; classroom; therapist's office; whatever] are too special needs, too impaired, much more special needs than my child and my child simply is too high functioning for that environment. Heck, I do it myself, and my child is definitely very special needs.

OP, until you've tried the class, you really can't write off the other kids. A stim, or a hand flap, or a physical/motoric disability or an intellectual disability or a genetic disorder does not equate to poor social skills. In fact, google Williams Syndrome some time. Those kids have fabulous social skills. It's known as Cocktail Party Syndrome.

And guess what? Three or four other moms have written YOUR KID off as way too low functioning for their kid socialize/learn/interact/hang out with. So just stop with this crap.

How have I written off the class? He DID the group. He completed it. He went every single day. We spent a fair amount of money on it. It was not a good experience. The goals that they asked us to come up with were not met -- by the group leader's own admission! I have nothing against the group, against the kids, whatever. It just simply wasn't a good fit for my kid. It was not the social skills experience that we were looking for. The social skills that this group worked on were ones that my son does OK with. Obviously practice at any social skills is great, but if I'm spending a fair amount of money looking for a specific goal, then I think it's OK for me to say 'hey, this group wasn't what we were looking for.' So I came here trying to find leads on other groups, as I am not familiar with this area and thought people would know more about what groups are out there than I did. I got some great suggestions, so thanks to those people.

Where on earth did I say that a stim or hand flap or physical/motoric disability or intellectual disability equates to poor social skills? You are adding value judgments to my search for social groups that I never expressed, and don't feel.

Of course there are moms and kids who haven't enjoyed playing with my kid. Of course there are kids whose social skills are way above and beyond his and he functions at a majorly lower level. That's the reality. That's why we are trying to improve this whole area with him. I totally understand why some kids haven't wanted to come back for multiple play dates. There are level of skill to everything. Saying that my child was on a different social skill level than the kids in his last group is a fact -- not a value statement. That doesn't make him a "better" kid, or a more valuable kid -- it just means his skills are different. Just as the skills of the kids in his preschool were different.

If your child is in a karate class and has earned his blue belt, a class that only focused on what it takes to earn a white belt wouldn't be the best fit, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good advice. Your child sounds like he would do well in a mainstream classroom except for the emotional regulation part. Public schools are terrible at handling this and tend to do crazy things like suspend kids for this type of behavior, saying they are disrupting the class. I would make sure he has an IEP NOW in Montgomery County just in case he needs to be in a more restrictive classroom just for K or start looking at places like Maddux where they will give him some room to learn how not to get upset without punishing him.

Anonymous wrote:
The one issue that stands out is the meltdowns and tantruming. Most mainstream schools/classrooms will not be able to support this type of behavioral issues if they are still occurring past preschool. I would focus on this issue and try to get help before your child goes to k.

The problem with emotional regulation is what many posters are pointing out. Many private SN schools and camps don't deal well with behavioral issues nevermind public schools. Auburn and Maddux probably will not take a child with this profile.

The emotional regulation hasn't been an issue in school or in a group situation so far. The melt-downs are when he's one on one at play dates or at the playground with one or two other kids, etc. and they are most pronounced at home - when he's at other peoples houses he's not getting triggered by the concept of 'people are messing with MY stuff' so it's slightly better. He definitely wouldn't have lasted at his last school if he had been melting down like he does at home, but his default when play with a group is too confusing/stressful is to just play on his own, and I want him to learn and practice the skills necessary to deal with those situations other than reverting to solo play.

[Anonymous]

Well, I don't have any recommendations near you, but my son attends a social skills group at the Social Skills Place in Woodbridge, VA and it has been great. Why not give them a call and ask for recommendations for similar programs in your area? [phone]

[Anonymous]

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Also, why do you want this? My son is towards the top of his social skills group, but there are still things he needs to learn and work on. But it makes him feel great to be in a setting where he's good at something and other kids look up to him. You don't need your kid to be the "most needy." You just need the class to focus on some skills that he needs to work on vs. all skills that he has already mastered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is good advice. Your child sounds like he would do well in a mainstream classroom except for the emotional regulation part. Public schools are terrible at handling this and tend to do crazy things like suspend kids for this type of behavior, saying they are disrupting the class. I would make sure he has an IEP NOW in Montgomery County just in case he needs to be in a more restrictive classroom just for K or start looking at places like Maddux where they will give him some room to learn how not to get upset without punishing him.

Anonymous wrote:
The one issue that stands out is the meltdowns and tantruming. Most mainstream schools/classrooms will not be able to support this type of behavioral issues if they are still occurring past preschool. I would focus on this issue and try to get help before your child goes to k.

The problem with emotional regulation is what many posters are pointing out. Many private SN schools and camps don't deal well with behavioral issues nevermind public schools. Auburn and Maddux probably will not take a child with this profile.

The emotional regulation hasn't been an issue in school or in a group situation so far. The melt-downs are when he's one on one at play dates or at the playground with one or two other kids, etc. and they are most pronounced at home - when he's at other peoples houses he's not getting triggered by the concept of 'people are messing with MY stuff' so it's slightly better. He definitely wouldn't have lasted at his last school if he had been melting down like he does at home, but his default when play with a group is too confusing/stressful is to just play on his own, and I want him to learn and practice the skills necessary to deal with those situations other than reverting to solo play.

You should get another evaluation bc if the meltdowns are being caused by "anxiety" for instance, all the social skills instruction in the world isn't going to do much.

You should focus on getting your child an IEP for when he starts K and try to get him placed into PEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here -- one who confesses not to having read every comment on this thread.

I did want to share, though, that I have a four-year-old who sounds a bit like OP's. I had her evalutated this year and, while she was found to have a number of autistic traits, she does not not meet the threshold for an ASD diagnosis at this time.

That said I did not think she'd do well in a regular summer camp. She's thus been attending a SN camp this summer -- one focused on OT and social skills -- and it's been a fantastic summer. Zero regrets.

My advice: Don't worry about the labels; just know your kid and get him/her whatever services are necessary.

Which camp? Maybe they have space in the next session for OP's kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Also, why do you want this? My son is towards the top of his social skills group, but there are still things he needs to learn and work on. But it makes him feel great to be in a setting where he's good at something and other kids look up to him. You don't need your kid to be the "most needy." You just need the class to focus on some skills that he needs to work on vs. all skills that he has already mastered.

+1. My child did OT paired with a child who had fairly severe autism (was close to non-verbal). He is ordinarily very spazzy, often too rough and sometimes inattentive to other children's reactions -- with her, he totally slowed down, was gentle, and went the extra mile to be attentive to her reaction.
I think maybe your bad experience was driven by the leader facilitating the group - -who either misrepresented to you what skills the group would focus on, or were not skilled enough to deliver on their representations. (Or maybe it was a mutual miscommunication about goals.)
I haven't done social skills groups, I admit, so am of limited use on this thread. But I will note that you are going to turn off a lot of SN parents by saying that you don't want your kid in classes with kids that are more "needy" than yours. All our kids have been excluded a lot from different things -- so a lot of SN parents are very sensitive to this kind of statement. I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it came across, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Sorry about some of the PPs. They do mean well, I think, even if their tone is a bit harsh. Most SN parents I have met in real life in this area have been really kind. I hope you will be able to meet these kinds of people as well as you spend more time here!

TLC or Treatment and Learning Centers may be worth a call as well. We had been on a waitlist and in the early summer they called saying they were trying to put together some groups for kids that are like our son (who is in a mainstream classroom but has issues with flexibility and transitions). You should be explicit about your concerns so they know what you're looking for.

You could also try to put together your own playgroup if you have time to organize. I'm sure other SN parents on this board with similar issues -- stressful playdates -- may want to join. This way you'd have a group that wouldn't judge and you wouldn't have to worry if your son had a meltdown because they would totally understand what you're going through.

Thank you. I certainly hope I meet some great parents here, too. I've been nervous about the upcoming school year.

Thank you for your info re: TLC. I called and left a message today.
I would love a SN playgroup. That sounds awesome and I'm surprised something doesn't already exist in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here -- one who confesses not to having read every comment on this thread.

I did want to share, though, that I have a four-year-old who sounds a bit like OP's. I had her evalutated this year and, while she was found to have a number of autistic traits, she does not not meet the threshold for an ASD diagnosis at this time.

That said I did not think she'd do well in a regular summer camp. She's thus been attending a SN camp this summer -- one focused on OT and social skills -- and it's been a fantastic summer. Zero regrets.

My advice: Don't worry about the labels; just know your kid and get him/her whatever services are necessary.

Which camp? Maybe they have space in the next session for OP's kid.

Camp Friendship on Capitol Hill. Ends this week, however. Plus it's far from OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Also, why do you want this? My son is towards the top of his social skills group, but there are still things he needs to learn and work on. But it makes him feel great to be in a setting where he's good at something and other kids look up to him. You don't need your kid to be the "most needy." You just need the class to focus on some skills that he needs to work on vs. all skills that he has already mastered.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Agree with immediate PP, but wanted to elaborate a bit on the skills being a good match.

Possibly a good group for your DS even though he may be the "least needy" - one working on emotional regulation even though your DS may not be having these issues at school and the other kids have issues at school 3-5x a day.

Possibly not a good group for your DS - one working on helping kids stop speaking too loudly, talk about one subject, have stims, making eye contact, since these do not sound like issues your DS has.

I would actually consider the first group to have more severe "special needs" so I would really approach it from the perspective of making sure the target skills are ones your DS needs.

[Anonymous]

OP, I had a somewhat similar kid to yours. Things that helped were:

- Social Thinking group
- Therapy with the social worker at school
- Karate
- Playing games like Sorry! (teaches frustration tolerance)
- OT

My kid had meltdowns, low frustration tolerance, etc, but to most, would seem like a 'normal' kid -- certainly knew how to wait in line, take turns etc.