Social skills with NT kids

[Anonymous]

I've been struggling to find a social skills class/environment that is a good fit for my son. We are new to Montgomery Co. DS is 4.5 and has speech delays and various motor delays that he receives private speech and OT for. His social skills are a mess. He is very verbal and outgoing and interactive with adults but doesn't really know how to handle other kids. Part of the problem is that he displays a great deal of rigidity, control, anxiety etc. in his play. He has an idea in his head of an activity and if the reality varies from what he wants...then he freaks. Honestly he's exhausting to be around because he melts down over minor issues. Earlier today he wanted to put on a puppet show for me. It ended in tears bc I clapped at the 'wrong' time, happened to look at my phone when it rang, closed my eyes for 10'seconds, asked him the name of a character because I didn't understand what he said, etc. and he lost his shit every few minutes and couldn't get over it. just now we were trying to color some pictures, and Do a craft (making a crown) for him and he flipped out when I picked up a crayon and started drawing because he didn't want me to. And then he couldn't cut the crown design out well so he got frustrated very early into it, could'nt recover and we scrapped that activity. I don't even want to talk about what it's like to play games where he doesn't win, good lord. I know these are issues that a lot of kids have, but he takes it up to level 10 every time.

He has a couple of kids that over the past few months he has been able to play decently with--mostly because they ignore his freak outs to be honest. But the vast majority of attempted play dates are very stressful because he melts down over very normal behavior from his playmates.

He attended half-day preschool for two years and will attend this coming year as well, but it's a new school as we moved recently. He did well in school and didnt have the big melt downs as the activities were very scheduled and everyone was doing the same thing. During free play time he started out sticking mostly to himself. Then he did start to interact with the other kids and had some success but the rigidity and control and low frustration tolerance did show--for example he liked to play tag on the playground but couldn't switch it off when the other kids moved into wanting to do something else. Or, if he could stop a game when the other kids moved on, he had difficulty picking back up and moving into whatever new game the kids were playing. By the end of the last school year it was looking as hopeful as it ever has-he seemed to be getting 'better' but then of course we moved and he isn't in school and hasn't had steady opportunities for play with peers.

As we are new in town, it's been a slow summer as we don't have any 'friends' that I can invite over for playdates--we have seen a few kids around the neighborhood but honestly, I don't really want to invite anyone new because it's stressful and his behavior is embarrassing---I feel like the other moms must be so ready to bolt at the end of the playdate that I've become a little socially anxious myself. So it's a catch-22---he desperately needs lots of exposure to other kids and chances to practice play, but that's hard for me to provide for him, especially in a new state/place where we don't know anyone.

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for -- that is what I'm asking about. Not sure why you are skeptical, but the one we did earlier this summer wasn't a good fit for what we were looking for in terms of social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Agree. The issues you describe will not be supported at a non SN camp. Rather than starting off with a social skills group, you should enroll DS in Speech classes for pragmatic speech so that he learns the give and take needed when playing. Start off with a therapist. He needs to learn to be less rigid.

Does your DS have a diagnosis and IEP for school?

[Anonymous]

You should consider PEP, which is SN preschool in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Agree. The issues you describe will not be supported at a non SN camp. Rather than starting off with a social skills group, you should enroll DS in Speech classes for pragmatic speech so that he learns the give and take needed when playing. Start off with a therapist. He needs to learn to be less rigid.

Does your DS have a diagnosis and IEP for school?

He does private speech therapy. I'm assuming that I can ask his SLP about where to find speech classes for pragmatic speech--or do you have any specific recommendations? His diagnosis from the developmental pediatrician is Expressive Language Disorder and Developmental Coordination Disorder.

We went through Early Intervention before we moved to Maryland and he did have an IEP, but they only qualified him for one hour/week visit with a special ed teacher who came to our house and worked with him. I was underwhelmed with the services we received through the county, which is why we went for private speech and OT. He did not qualify for the special needs preschool program there, unfortunately, because I heard great things about it.

[Anonymous]

We've done two social groups and to be very honest, OP, your child sounds like he has a lot MORE needs than the kids in our groups.

In our first group there were four other kids and I think only one had an autism diagnosis. The other three kids didn't seem to have any obvious special needs in the way you are probably thinking of them. They were outgoing/friendly with parents and with eachother. Once, just once, I saw one of them once get upset about having to go to class but he basically just fell to the ground and cried softly for two minutes and went in and participated fine. All five kids in the class, including ours, are fully mainstreamed.

The second group DS was in was very similar. Could not tell any of the kids had any needs at all.

Whoever is putting the group together should be able to put your DS with kids who have similar needs. They usually work very hard to have a group of kids who will get along and need to work on similar things. If your child wouldn't be a good fit you may want to ask about a dyad--basically pairing your son up with one other child to work on these skills.

Look for social thinking groups rather than social skills groups. Many social skills groups will work on very basic things like giving kids scripts to greet people, take turns, etc. while social thinking ones are usually geared towards more complex issues.

[Anonymous]

I'm immediate PP and I wanted to add that I think 4/5 kids in our group did not even qualify for an IEP so there are definitely groups out there for kids like this.

[Anonymous]

Fitness for Health social skills camp, run by SLP so may be a good fit.

Auburn School camp, some kids with ADHD, ASD but very very high functioning. Visited there and you wouldn't know that many of the kids have special needs. Was actually thinking during the tour that NT child would love this place.

If your son has enough needs to qualify for an IEP, these might be the right fit.

[Anonymous]

He sounds just like my kid at 4-5. That sort of rigidity and need to direct play in very specific ways is pretty typical of Aspergers, for what it's worth. So are the low frustration tolerance and physical clumsiness.

You might look into the day camp at Mater Dei, if you're close enough to the Potomac area. Head First camp I think? We did that earlier in the summer and it's not a SN camp but there were an awful lot of Maddux kids there. The population of kids will vary week to week but by this point in the summer the counselors should have learned how to handle kids like yours (and mine).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've done two social groups and to be very honest, OP, your child sounds like he has a lot MORE needs than the kids in our groups.

In our first group there were four other kids and I think only one had an autism diagnosis. The other three kids didn't seem to have any obvious special needs in the way you are probably thinking of them. They were outgoing/friendly with parents and with eachother. Once, just once, I saw one of them once get upset about having to go to class but he basically just fell to the ground and cried softly for two minutes and went in and participated fine. All five kids in the class, including ours, are fully mainstreamed.

The second group DS was in was very similar. Could not tell any of the kids had any needs at all.

Whoever is putting the group together should be able to put your DS with kids who have similar needs. They usually work very hard to have a group of kids who will get along and need to work on similar things. If your child wouldn't be a good fit you may want to ask about a dyad--basically pairing your son up with one other child to work on these skills.

Look for social thinking groups rather than social skills groups. Many social skills groups will work on very basic things like giving kids scripts to greet people, take turns, etc. while social thinking ones are usually geared towards more complex issues.

Thank you for the distinction between social skills vs. social thinking -- that is very helpful. Although it wasn't an official 'therapeutic' tool, my son's old preschool used the dyad concept with him -- there was a boy who was remarkably out-going but also very easy going and they would put him and my son at tables together, in activities together, etc. fairly often.

I want my kid to be the most 'needy' one in the group. In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Ultimately it sounds like my fault for not really understanding the specifics of the group. This wasn't a situation where there was a great deal of pre-screening. If your kid was receiving OT, was in the age group, and you paid, you could register.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fitness for Health social skills camp, run by SLP so may be a good fit.

Auburn School camp, some kids with ADHD, ASD but very very high functioning. Visited there and you wouldn't know that many of the kids have special needs. Was actually thinking during the tour that NT child would love this place.

If your son has enough needs to qualify for an IEP, these might be the right fit.

Thank you -- I will look into Fitness for Health and Auburn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: In the past group they happily told me he was often their peer model, which is how I first knew that the group wasn't what I had wanted. They focused a lot on taking turns, basic manners (saying hello and goodbye, eye contact, etc.), sharing, listening to each other etc. etc. which are all skills that in a group setting my son is more than capable of. But when it comes to negotiating free play, joining in appropriately, handling play the way someone else wants it, etc. etc. he definitely needs practice.

Sigh. Yep, they used to tell us that our DS was a "leader" in his social skills group too--since they were working on simple stuff like going around a circle practicing greetings and introductions. But of course his problem was/is far more complex than that. He's always been very polite and can handle simple social niceties in situations when they are clearly called for (usually, unless he's in a bad mood). His difficulties lie in perspective taking, reading social cues, understanding what is expected of him in various situations, following others' leads--basically, how to play with other kids without freaking out and/or being written off as so weird that the other kids run away. And of course being a "leader" (dictator?) is what comes naturally; what he really needs to learn is following. I've never heard the "social thinking" vs. "social skills" distinction used this way, but it makes sense. Any group that talks about "social thinking" is going to have a bunch of HFA/Aspie kids in it and will be focused on more complex skills.

And BTW our experience has been that if you get kids like this together they play much more successfully with each other than with typically developing kids.

[Anonymous]

Our experience has been the opposite of PPs in terms of who our child gets along with.

DS has no idea who the ADHD/ASD kid were in his class but ended up not playing very much with these kids. Putting together two kids with flexibility issues seemed to me like asking for conflict so it made perfect sense to me that it wasn't the best match.

Instead, he tended to get along best with the NT kids who were really outgoing, easy going, etc.

I kind of liked that his social skills group had some difficult personalities as it really made him work to try to get along with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I looked into social skills camps but we ran into issues where a lot of the groups are compromised, naturally, of kids with special needs and in the most recent group, all of the kids had more severe impairments than he did. I wondered if anyone was familiar with groups that mixed and matched NT kids and SN kids? Maybe what I'm seeking is a camp/group that isn't special needs per se, but has leaders capable of handling some kids who need more support?

Any tips or info on opportunities that may be open for August would be greatly appreciated!

OP, you need to find a social skill group/camp that has a better mix. I'm skeptical that the other kids were so much more "SN" than your kid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for -- that is what I'm asking about. Not sure why you are skeptical, but the one we did earlier this summer wasn't a good fit for what we were looking for in terms of social skills.

OP, if your kid can't play one on one with you without ending up in tears, then he is not ready for a group with NT kids. So yes, I am very skeptical that the other kids in his past social skills group were more "SN" than he is.