My Daughter Has Her Own Version of Reality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think if your daughter feels "that's not how it happened" her viewpoint is worthy of credence, even if you feel it's wrong or off-base. Her point of view should be respected.

^ What an idiot.

The viewpoint of the adult parent always trumps that of the child. There is no need to respect the point of view of a child.

As soon as the kid is a self-sufficient adult, then you can start respecting her views. Until then, shaddap and do what you're told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

Just wanted to bring up this possibility if you are looking for why this can be happening.
Sure it could be because she's a tween and then she'll be a teen.
I'm reading a book now about adult ADD and one of the things that they mention is what you describe- forgotten conversations, agreements, a completely different perception of what actually happened.

My 13 year old DD is creative and temperamental too, and she has ADHD. Your description sounds familiar to me.
I am afraid it's going to cause her problems later in life, that's why I'm reading a book about Adult ADD. These kinds of traits just don't go away.

Ugh, DCUM's answer to everything -- ADHD.

New poster here. My son has adhd and the OPs child sounds just like my 15 year old son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP,

Just wanted to bring up this possibility if you are looking for why this can be happening.
Sure it could be because she's a tween and then she'll be a teen.
I'm reading a book now about adult ADD and one of the things that they mention is what you describe- forgotten conversations, agreements, a completely different perception of what actually happened.

My 13 year old DD is creative and temperamental too, and she has ADHD. Your description sounds familiar to me.
I am afraid it's going to cause her problems later in life, that's why I'm reading a book about Adult ADD. These kinds of traits just don't go away.

Ugh, DCUM's answer to everything -- ADHD.

New poster here. My son has adhd and the OPs child sounds just like my 15 year old son.

Another new poster. I also have a 15 year old son with ADHD. I agree. OP's child sounds like mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child thinks he is amazing athlete, he is not. He will say I scored 15 points when it is more like 5.roblems only arise when hid older brother bursts his reality. Why do you feel the need to challenge or correct her. Just let it be.

She has her reality, you have yours.

This is one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read in regards to parenting on DCUM, and that is saying a lot.

Your child is NOT an amazing basketball player. What's wrong with recognizing that his 5 points are a nice, but minimal contribution to the team and that perhaps his talents lie elsewhere and no, in fact, he is not going to play in the NBA?

Do you want your kid to grow up in LaLa land? In a "reality" that no one lives in but him? Why can't you teach him to face hard facts?

+1. It's kids whose parents abdicate all responsibility who become laughingstocks on American Idol. "But mommy said I have a great voice.

[Anonymous]

I feel sorry for the kids of most of these posters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the kids of most of these posters.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of you appear to know adolescent development very well, or how adolescents tend to work/take in their environment... other than the cases of outright lying (curfew) which is very different, i would guess that she feels fundamentally misunderstood, perhaps patronized, and is unable to assert her independence. Instead of assuming you are always right (which, you may be, but let's just try a different tactic), try asking her questions and starting a conversation, and try to understand her viewpoint. Approach the conversation like you would a negotiation with a colleague: you can still go into the conversation with your own agenda and your own idea of what you want, but you have to "play nice" and hear the other person out. She will feel respected, perhaps grow more confident in asserting her needs/desires or wishes, and maybe you guys can start to figure out what the real problems are. If you want to see change in her, your approach needs to change, and it has to be genuine.

Be careful - most teens go through some argumentative phase where their reality does not match their parents, but OP's description of her daughter goes far beyond that. Plus she says her husband and herself have been worried for some time. This is not typical behavior, and needs to be studied and addressed.

I am the PP you quote. Someone else asked this too -- can you explain where you are getting the idea that this behavior "goes far beyond"? Obviously, I disagree. I maintain my point about the lying, but I dont see specifics that indicate this is anything beyond a power play by the tween because she does not feel heard or understood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are really comparing your kid to Steve Jobs. Wow.

OP invoked Isaacson's depiction of Steve Jobs in order to convey her conundrum through popular culture. When I clicked on the thread, I had a sense of what OP meant in re her DD, but the moment she mentioned Jobs, then I precisely knew what she meant.

OP, I knew someone like this who worked for me on a temporary assignment. At first, I was baffled - had really never known someone who acted this way. Finally, I just gave firm deadlines and followed through on them. If she didn't have the copy done, I would literally yank it from her and give to someone else. She would get her back up, but I would just reiterate my mantra that we were a team and she couldn't sabotage it simply because it didn't conform with her sense of reality.

[Anonymous]

My sister is like this, always has been, and has borderline personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of you appear to know adolescent development very well, or how adolescents tend to work/take in their environment... other than the cases of outright lying (curfew) which is very different, i would guess that she feels fundamentally misunderstood, perhaps patronized, and is unable to assert her independence. Instead of assuming you are always right (which, you may be, but let's just try a different tactic), try asking her questions and starting a conversation, and try to understand her viewpoint. Approach the conversation like you would a negotiation with a colleague: you can still go into the conversation with your own agenda and your own idea of what you want, but you have to "play nice" and hear the other person out. She will feel respected, perhaps grow more confident in asserting her needs/desires or wishes, and maybe you guys can start to figure out what the real problems are. If you want to see change in her, your approach needs to change, and it has to be genuine.

Be careful - most teens go through some argumentative phase where their reality does not match their parents, but OP's description of her daughter goes far beyond that. Plus she says her husband and herself have been worried for some time. This is not typical behavior, and needs to be studied and addressed.

I am the PP you quote. Someone else asked this too -- can you explain where you are getting the idea that this behavior "goes far beyond"? Obviously, I disagree. I maintain my point about the lying, but I dont see specifics that indicate this is anything beyond a power play by the tween because she does not feel heard or understood.

Because like other PPs, I have experienced this, I understand the OP, and feel that her concern is deep-seated and not just a passing annoyance that her child is asserting herself. Have you read the Steve Jobs biography? If you read it you'll know exactly how extreme and intractable that type of behavior is. People like this will be quite ready to believe the whole world is wrong if they are told by multiple people that what they are doing is incorrect. They are always right. You can never win. They will twist your words to suit their vision, and accuse you of the most ridiculous things to deflect your focus on their actions. And they are usually highly persuasive and incredibly stubborn people, because they actually believe in what they're saying, at least in the moment. Then if they change their minds later to a more rational way of thinking, they won't understand that you're upset about their past behavior. Severity of symptoms vary, like any spectrum.

It's not adolescence. It's a disorder that needs to be managed and lived with. My husband has episodes like this. For him compromise = he loses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of you appear to know adolescent development very well, or how adolescents tend to work/take in their environment... other than the cases of outright lying (curfew) which is very different, i would guess that she feels fundamentally misunderstood, perhaps patronized, and is unable to assert her independence. Instead of assuming you are always right (which, you may be, but let's just try a different tactic), try asking her questions and starting a conversation, and try to understand her viewpoint. Approach the conversation like you would a negotiation with a colleague: you can still go into the conversation with your own agenda and your own idea of what you want, but you have to "play nice" and hear the other person out. She will feel respected, perhaps grow more confident in asserting her needs/desires or wishes, and maybe you guys can start to figure out what the real problems are. If you want to see change in her, your approach needs to change, and it has to be genuine.

Be careful - most teens go through some argumentative phase where their reality does not match their parents, but OP's description of her daughter goes far beyond that. Plus she says her husband and herself have been worried for some time. This is not typical behavior, and needs to be studied and addressed.

I am the PP you quote. Someone else asked this too -- can you explain where you are getting the idea that this behavior "goes far beyond"? Obviously, I disagree. I maintain my point about the lying, but I dont see specifics that indicate this is anything beyond a power play by the tween because she does not feel heard or understood.

Because like other PPs, I have experienced this, I understand the OP, and feel that her concern is deep-seated and not just a passing annoyance that her child is asserting herself. Have you read the Steve Jobs biography? If you read it you'll know exactly how extreme and intractable that type of behavior is. People like this will be quite ready to believe the whole world is wrong if they are told by multiple people that what they are doing is incorrect. They are always right. You can never win. They will twist your words to suit their vision, and accuse you of the most ridiculous things to deflect your focus on their actions. And they are usually highly persuasive and incredibly stubborn people, because they actually believe in what they're saying, at least in the moment. Then if they change their minds later to a more rational way of thinking, they won't understand that you're upset about their past behavior. Severity of symptoms vary, like any spectrum.

It's not adolescence. It's a disorder that needs to be managed and lived with. My husband has episodes like this. For him compromise = he loses.

The irony here is your own intense need to be right -- you are filtering a mere phrase in one post by a stranger whose situation you don't know anything about through your own personal filter of your life and a Steve Jobs biography. I think you need to seriously consider whose reality does not match this situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of you appear to know adolescent development very well, or how adolescents tend to work/take in their environment... other than the cases of outright lying (curfew) which is very different, i would guess that she feels fundamentally misunderstood, perhaps patronized, and is unable to assert her independence. Instead of assuming you are always right (which, you may be, but let's just try a different tactic), try asking her questions and starting a conversation, and try to understand her viewpoint. Approach the conversation like you would a negotiation with a colleague: you can still go into the conversation with your own agenda and your own idea of what you want, but you have to "play nice" and hear the other person out. She will feel respected, perhaps grow more confident in asserting her needs/desires or wishes, and maybe you guys can start to figure out what the real problems are. If you want to see change in her, your approach needs to change, and it has to be genuine.

Be careful - most teens go through some argumentative phase where their reality does not match their parents, but OP's description of her daughter goes far beyond that. Plus she says her husband and herself have been worried for some time. This is not typical behavior, and needs to be studied and addressed.

I am the PP you quote. Someone else asked this too -- can you explain where you are getting the idea that this behavior "goes far beyond"? Obviously, I disagree. I maintain my point about the lying, but I dont see specifics that indicate this is anything beyond a power play by the tween because she does not feel heard or understood.

Because like other PPs, I have experienced this, I understand the OP, and feel that her concern is deep-seated and not just a passing annoyance that her child is asserting herself. Have you read the Steve Jobs biography? If you read it you'll know exactly how extreme and intractable that type of behavior is. People like this will be quite ready to believe the whole world is wrong if they are told by multiple people that what they are doing is incorrect. They are always right. You can never win. They will twist your words to suit their vision, and accuse you of the most ridiculous things to deflect your focus on their actions. And they are usually highly persuasive and incredibly stubborn people, because they actually believe in what they're saying, at least in the moment. Then if they change their minds later to a more rational way of thinking, they won't understand that you're upset about their past behavior. Severity of symptoms vary, like any spectrum.

It's not adolescence. It's a disorder that needs to be managed and lived with. My husband has episodes like this. For him compromise = he loses.

PP - So how do you help these teens?? My DD is going into her last year of HS and I'm concerned. What can I do now to help her?

[Anonymous]

OP--you don't say if she acts this way with others. If so, this is a more concerning problem because she will alienate her peers and become socially isolated. I'd hop right on it with a therapist etc.

I also think that you and the PP with a daughter going into last year of high school need to re-evaluate how you are responding to your DC. I cannot recommend highly enough practicing validation. This is a technique developed for people with borderline personality disorder (funny a PP mentioned this), but it works really well with pre-teens and teens.

Practicing validation turned around my relationship with my teen DD 180 degrees. I just read up on it and put it into practice.

Google validation and BPD. One good book on this is "Stop Walking on Eggshells." There are others. With some internet searching you'll be able to get the gist of it and see if this could work for you.

[Anonymous]

To me, it depends on how skewed it is so we need examples.

My mother does this still and to be honest, it makes her an impossible person. There is her version of reality and everyone else's. My brother and I have learned not to trust anything she tells us. We call each other to verify anything she says about the other one to stir up trouble and 99% of the time it never happened.

She still swears that she and my dad "never fought" when we were kids. Meanwhile, here in reality my friends still remind me of some horrible public screamfests she engaged in at our sporting events that would leave me in tears and sheltering with my coach while she yelled at dad in the parking lot, when I go back to my hometown. They still say how sorry they felt for childhood me.

According to her, none of that ever happened? She just doesn't believe it. Total denial.

I don't believe in "giving her perspective respect" any more. I did that for many years and I'm over it, I have to be if I want to have any sort of relationship with her. My brother speaks to her a couple times a year, that's how he handles it. So yes, this can impact your personal relationships.

[Anonymous]

11:25 here: wanted to highlight one thing that makes this really difficult that a PP noted -- I really, honestly believe that my mother believes in the truth of her alternative realities. She has done some truly horrible, terrible things to me and my brother, and if I bring them up now she will have either no recollection of them at all or a completely different memory of the past. Meanwhile, I, my brother, and dad (and often third parties) all recall the event the same way so it isn't like I'm the one whose memory changed. I don't know how therapy could fix it because there is no "admitting she is skewing the truth", it is like she has erased the truth from her consciousness and replaced it with these fictionalized accounts, or nothing/"that never happened!" stuff. I think it is some kind of psychosis.