How many in your schools senior class have no tips at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts.
1) extra time is not an advantage if it is proportional and legit to a dress a learning disability. It is supposed to be compensation for a deficit. But, I agree the system needs reform. Kids usually get a round block od extra time without proof that it is proportional to the need - in other words, if a deficit warrants an extra 10 minutes that kid likely will get 30 min or 60 min more- or no extra time at all.
2) but OP's point that privates stack their schools with students with hooks is well taken. It is one way they try to ensure that their college placements exceed averages. Of course, the best advantage is just an inredibly self-motivated student with insane talent and supportive parents with an interest and means of suportting the child in any way possible.

The other problem is that many parents have seized unfair timing advantages for their non-disabled kids by paying a "specialist" to label their kid with some specious disorder. It throws the whole practice into disrepute - too many aggressive parents gaming the system.

My high-IQ kid has a language-based learning disability that interferes mightily with her ability to demonstrate what she knows. I would give just about anything to make it go away, but it never will. Some extra time on a test allows her to come closer to her potential and helps her not dissolve into a puddle of anxiety and self-loathing. But that in no way affects your kid.

+1 Exactly! The people complaining about "aggressive parents" have no idea what it is like to have a child with difficulties in learning. We have worked long and hard to get our kids to a place where they can live up to their full potential. I will never understand why this upsets parents. At the same time I'm more than confident that they wouldn't care if our kids were left out in the cold with their problems as long as their precious little snowflake was able to get ahead….my child being given an accommodation (after extensive and expensive testing) should in no way affect your child's ability. Besides, my child's private will not allow any accommodations unless they are fully diagnosed by a licensed professional after a series of tests and any private that is allowing parents to make the rules should be in question - maybe that is the bigger issue.

[Anonymous]

I think the hooks are over-rated with the number of applicants these schools get. The real hook is the DNA that the kids inherit.

[Anonymous]

"TIPS." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts.
1) extra time is not an advantage if it is proportional and legit to a dress a learning disability. It is supposed to be compensation for a deficit. But, I agree the system needs reform. Kids usually get a round block od extra time without proof that it is proportional to the need - in other words, if a deficit warrants an extra 10 minutes that kid likely will get 30 min or 60 min more- or no extra time at all.
2) but OP's point that privates stack their schools with students with hooks is well taken. It is one way they try to ensure that their college placements exceed averages. Of course, the best advantage is just an inredibly self-motivated student with insane talent and supportive parents with an interest and means of suportting the child in any way possible.

On your number 2, it is neither as complicated or as sinister as you make it out. Private schools "stack their schools with students" who are . . . IN THEIR APPLICANT POOL. The schools cost $40,000 per year, and the schools that give the MOST aid in this area still have 75% full-paying students. Who has the money in this area? Generally parents with advanced degrees (doctors, lawyers, consultants etc.) and often those parents are alums of Ivies and/or other highly selective schools. That's just the demography of the DC area.

When schools do their admissions, they are looking for the smartest kids in the applicant pool, and diversity, and maybe athletic talent if they care about that. Those are all things that can lead to college admissions success too. Do schools know that parents look at college outcomes as part of the school choice process, so that it is part of marketing? Sure. But it's just a piece. And school admissions committees don't sit around saying "how can we assure that in 13 or 8 or 4 years we'll have the most Ivy admits?" They are saying "who are the strongest students in our pile and how can we convince them to come to our school"? And "do we have enough financial aid in the pot for everyone who needs it"? And "will we continue to have a good applicant pool as tuition goes up?"

Lastly, for those weighing in the "extra time" issues -- give it a rest. Encourage your own child to work hard and do well, and to recognize that time spent worrying about other people's perceived advantages and how "fair" they are is time wasted.

Spoken like a parent who wrangled an extra time advantage for their kid but doesn't want to acknowledge what a boost that is.

So, no. You don't know me, and you happened to be 100% off base in your assumption.

Who am I "speaking like"? I'd like to think I'm speaking like someone who tries to be fair and see all sides of an issue. I'd like to think I'm speaking like someone who wants to focus on what I and my family can control. I'd like to think I'm speaking like someone who doesn't assume I am qualified to make educational policy in place of schools. I'd like to think I'm speaking like someone who doesn't assume that any student getting extra time is the beneficiary of "wangling" parents seeking unfair advantage.

[Anonymous]

How in the hell do you know that people have hooks? There is no way you know what the real story is for the person in your kids class. Some people lie, other do not tell. I know of people who think they have hooks and they really don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question to OP is - how do you know that only 2 kids got into Ivies "without a tip"? Are you assuming that anyone who is an athlete, of color, a legacy, etc. would not have gotten into the Ivies otherwise? I realize that sometimes these things can make a difference in filling out a college class - but if you truly believe that this is the ONLY "tipping factor" for their acceptance, then you might want to reflect a little on your own lens of the world. I'm not saying this to dump on you, or to be mean...but making these sorts of assumptions doesn't make you look very good. It's just really offensive to discredit someone else's achievement by putting them into some "box" that suggests they only ended up there because of a "special favor"....this includes school acceptances, job title, etc. I suspect you may not realize it (as someone has hinted at) or even mean it...

OP here- I do know that only 2 of the people who went to ivies did not have a tip.
I am not suggesting that the people with tips did not also have top grades, talents, scores etc and that they ONLY got in because of their tips, I am just saying that they had tips. I am not saying that they always used their tips- some had ivy legacy status and didn't use it to apply early when it can help. But they had the tip, even if they didn't use it.
In addition, I know that there are resume lines that can help , such as girls applying for stem, intel winners, or singing stars etc- but I didn't add those in because those aren't necessarily so obvious in the little 2nd grader when he is accepted at the school.
Please give me a little credit- I know who was minority and cum laude, and who wasn't. I know who the sports stars are. I know who spent every weekend raising money for a special charity. There are many fantastic people in this class. I am not discrediting anyone- almost all the kids in the class were hardworking and talented.
I am saying that if your child does not have a tip, they might not get into an ivy until grad school. Also- of the 24 vanilla students I originally spoke of- I am not suggesting that they deserved to go anywhere other than where they went.
If you are going to spend a lot of money on private school thinking that if your child is in the top 20% of the class they will go to an ivy- no it will not necessarily happen that way. Maybe if they have a tip as well. I think when most of the parents went to school the top 20percenters went to ivies- its not that way any more.
I HOPE you can see that I am not looking at it thru any lens at all- not talking about what should be happening- merely what is happening.

And, in response to you: I am not sending my children to our private with the intention of getting them into any particular college. We pay for them to get a good education and be in an environment that fosters a love of learning, not learning for a specific "college outcome" (or test). We are not concerned with where other children go to school now and won't be concerned for college either. We don't care about the chances of our child going to an Ivy. We will have no hooks - just bright children who love to learn and hopefully won't burn out in HS. I am sure they will do fine wherever they go as long as we keep them grounded in what is important in life. DH and I have done perfectly fine after going to colleges that would be considered far below what would be considered competitive in the DC private world. We both got a great education, were in healthy environment to grow and mature as young adults, went to reputable grad schools and have successful careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the hooks are over-rated with the number of applicants these schools get. The real hook is the DNA that the kids inherit.

Exactly!

Plus - add to the fact that there are FAR more qualified applicants than spaces - so assuming someone got in over your own child because they had a hook is just ridiculous. Your child just didn't get in, live with it an move on. There are plenty of wonderful places to learn out there. I doubt these "rejected" ivy kids will flounder in life as a result (unless their parents have made them think that their whole "self worth" depends on their "school label").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How in the hell do you know that people have hooks? There is no way you know what the real story is for the person in your kids class. Some people lie, other do not tell. I know of people who think they have hooks and they really don't.

+1. The OP is completely fabricating her numbers. There is no chance that she knows the undergraduate colleges of each of her child's classmates' parents. Nor would she know which students get accommodations on the standardized tests. And, a child's racial/ethnic background is not always visible.

[Anonymous]

OP can tell if someone has an acknowledged minority status, like they are biracial or openly gay If someone has extra time in the classroom exams they have it on the SATs. This info isn't hidden by anyone. If people have secret minority status then maybe there were fewer than 24 vanilla. That could be true but doesn't affect the conclusion.
And I am not posting this as sour grapes my child went where he wanted to go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few thoughts.
1) extra time is not an advantage if it is proportional and legit to a dress a learning disability. It is supposed to be compensation for a deficit. But, I agree the system needs reform. Kids usually get a round block od extra time without proof that it is proportional to the need - in other words, if a deficit warrants an extra 10 minutes that kid likely will get 30 min or 60 min more- or no extra time at all.
2) but OP's point that privates stack their schools with students with hooks is well taken. It is one way they try to ensure that their college placements exceed averages. Of course, the best advantage is just an inredibly self-motivated student with insane talent and supportive parents with an interest and means of suportting the child in any way possible.

The other problem is that many parents have seized unfair timing advantages for their non-disabled kids by paying a "specialist" to label their kid with some specious disorder. It throws the whole practice into disrepute - too many aggressive parents gaming the system.

My high-IQ kid has a language-based learning disability that interferes mightily with her ability to demonstrate what she knows. I would give just about anything to make it go away, but it never will. Some extra time on a test allows her to come closer to her potential and helps her not dissolve into a puddle of anxiety and self-loathing. But that in no way affects your kid.

+1 Exactly! The people complaining about "aggressive parents" have no idea what it is like to have a child with difficulties in learning. We have worked long and hard to get our kids to a place where they can live up to their full potential. I will never understand why this upsets parents. At the same time I'm more than confident that they wouldn't care if our kids were left out in the cold with their problems as long as their precious little snowflake was able to get ahead….my child being given an accommodation (after extensive and expensive testing) should in no way affect your child's ability. Besides, my child's private will not allow any accommodations unless they are fully diagnosed by a licensed professional after a series of tests and any private that is allowing parents to make the rules should be in question - maybe that is the bigger issue.

But it does affect the grades other kids get. There are curves, and when some students are required to think and articulate quickly, and others are not, they aren't competing on a level playing field. And part of performance and learning in high school is competing with your classmates, much as we hate to say that out loud. Just like I have colleagues I adore but with whom I am also in competition. What child would not benefit greatly from extra time to think and organize his to present his of her analysis. Your dd may want the time due to whatever her issue may be, but in the meantime she Leo gets a benefit that other kids do not. Part of timed tests is the ability to perform under pressure and time constraints. When those constraints evaporate, all students would be expected to perform better.

[Anonymous]

The testing is a crock. And what does "full potential" mean?

[Anonymous]

Some ugly people with their envy and lack of empathy.

OP needs to get out more -- too much time interrogating her child about who's half-Latino and what juniors get extra time on calculus tests and whether Lisa's dad or just her stepdad went to Princeton, not to mention all the hours updating the spreadsheet of the 80 competitors, I mean classmates, of her daughter.

She might consider doing some volunteer work instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP can tell if someone has an acknowledged minority status, like they are biracial or openly gay If someone has extra time in the classroom exams they have it on the SATs. This info isn't hidden by anyone. If people have secret minority status then maybe there were fewer than 24 vanilla. That could be true but doesn't affect the conclusion.
And I am not posting this as sour grapes my child went where he wanted to go

Being LGBTQ is not a hook and does not give you a boost in admissions. You can confirm this with a google search.

[Anonymous]

Here you go OP...maybe you should consider looking into these projects

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/struggles-of-minority-students-in-montgomery-i-too-am-b-cc/2015/02/23/a46a6f7e-b86e-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?hpid=z3

[Anonymous]

The term is "hook," not "tip." Also, many of you don't seem to understand what's considered a hook and what isn't.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-michele-hernandez/10-secrets-for-top-colleg_b_1921183.html