Explain gun culture to me please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I do think it's kind of weird that your relatives wouldn't give you the details on how they are stored, one of the tenets of responsible gun ownership is that you shouldn't give specifics as to where they are stored or how they are secured, because that makes them a more likely target for theft or a break in. Again, I think it is ridiculous that relatives wouldn't make an exception to that for a relative they know well with small kids, but among the gun people I know (most of my family), it is pretty off-limits to discuss the specifics of how & where their guns are stored without a compelling reason (they would consider small kids in the house a compelling reason).

You just completely contradicted yourself and said tenets. If it's tenet, which would they make an exception?

For people they trust not to rob them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

Usually I get some cheesy emoticon and vague repose to my email. Or no response. So I follow up in person when the questions haven't been answered which prompts the eye rolls. I dont push it beyond getting a confirmation that they double checked. Which, am glad I did since mom had actually meant to but not gotten around to it when we arrived.

I just read this again -- how do you know you're met with eyerolls and smirks? You indicated you "send" a reminder -- I presume by e-mail? Do then continue to persist to interrogate them when you arrive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I do think it's kind of weird that your relatives wouldn't give you the details on how they are stored, one of the tenets of responsible gun ownership is that you shouldn't give specifics as to where they are stored or how they are secured, because that makes them a more likely target for theft or a break in. Again, I think it is ridiculous that relatives wouldn't make an exception to that for a relative they know well with small kids, but among the gun people I know (most of my family), it is pretty off-limits to discuss the specifics of how & where their guns are stored without a compelling reason (they would consider small kids in the house a compelling reason).

You just completely contradicted yourself and said tenets. If it's tenet, which would they make an exception?

You don't really get it. The tenet is not to talk about it openly. You don't talk about it in a restaurant where people could overhear, for example, and follow you home. You don't mention to every family that is coming over "Well, we have guns, but we store them in the bedroom in a safe and the ammo is in the top of the bedroom closet," because you don't know who will be a thief. With close family, it's okay to discuss - in private - because you know them. But the overarching theme is not to discuss it unless necessary. To me, this seems like a necessary situation, but they don't see it that way for some reason.

I didn't completely contradict myself, you just don't understand what I was saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

I usually get smirky emoticons over text/email. Then follow up in person to get the confirmation that they double checked. Which, am glad I did because my had actually meant to "take care of it" but in fact had not when we arrived. She was all huffy, but when into another room and did it.



I just read this again -- how do you know you're met with eyerolls and smirks? You indicated you "send" a reminder -- I presume by e-mail? Do then continue to persist to interrogate them when you arrive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

I usually get smirky emoticons over text/email. Then follow up in person to get the confirmation that they double checked. Which, am glad I did because my had actually meant to "take care of it" but in fact had not when we arrived. She was all huffy, but when into another room and did it.



I just read this again -- how do you know you're met with eyerolls and smirks? You indicated you "send" a reminder -- I presume by e-mail? Do then continue to persist to interrogate them when you arrive?

book-recommending pp here. IMO that's a good sign OP. To me it says that they know the rules and know they should be following them, but are sloppy because hey, it is work, or maybe your mom is getting forgetful or whatever. Sounds like it really is a combination of the two gun culture factors I mentioned. You can work with this.

If I were you I would:
--not do this conversation over email ever again. Just stop that whole thing where you ask them in writing and they brush you off. It's not doing anyone any good.
--Make first contact on the issue in person. Within 10 minutes to an hour of your arrival, when the kids are out of earshot, bring it up. "Guns unloaded and locked up, right?" They may roll their eyes but, within the safety gun culture, this one-time forgetfulness of your mom's earns you the right to ALWAYS ASK THIS, EVERY TRIP, FOREVERMORE. When other relatives throw shade say "Hey! You know I asked one year and mom hadn't. So don't give me shit. It's a reasonable question and you know it." If you can do it jokingly and your family speaks sarcasm, you could even say "It's not like I'm asking you to register with the government, I'm asking you to take the bullets out of your lethal weapons and not give them to my kids to play with."

honestly, take it from me, I was 100% antigun then fell in love with a guy who had some, so I have walked this path. Learn a bit about the gun culture. Your credibility will SKYROCKET with your family. You will be more comfortable and on firmer ground with what you are asking them to do. And your kids will be safer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

I usually get smirky emoticons over text/email. Then follow up in person to get the confirmation that they double checked. Which, am glad I did because my had actually meant to "take care of it" but in fact had not when we arrived. She was all huffy, but when into another room and did it.



I just read this again -- how do you know you're met with eyerolls and smirks? You indicated you "send" a reminder -- I presume by e-mail? Do then continue to persist to interrogate them when you arrive?

book-recommending pp here. IMO that's a good sign OP. To me it says that they know the rules and know they should be following them, but are sloppy because hey, it is work, or maybe your mom is getting forgetful or whatever. Sounds like it really is a combination of the two gun culture factors I mentioned. You can work with this.

If I were you I would:
--not do this conversation over email ever again. Just stop that whole thing where you ask them in writing and they brush you off. It's not doing anyone any good.
--Make first contact on the issue in person. Within 10 minutes to an hour of your arrival, when the kids are out of earshot, bring it up. "Guns unloaded and locked up, right?" They may roll their eyes but, within the safety gun culture, this one-time forgetfulness of your mom's earns you the right to ALWAYS ASK THIS, EVERY TRIP, FOREVERMORE. When other relatives throw shade say "Hey! You know I asked one year and mom hadn't. So don't give me shit. It's a reasonable question and you know it." If you can do it jokingly and your family speaks sarcasm, you could even say "It's not like I'm asking you to register with the government, I'm asking you to take the bullets out of your lethal weapons and not give them to my kids to play with."

honestly, take it from me, I was 100% antigun then fell in love with a guy who had some, so I have walked this path. Learn a bit about the gun culture. Your credibility will SKYROCKET with your family. You will be more comfortable and on firmer ground with what you are asking them to do. And your kids will be safer.

And. If there is another lapse of any kind, or if mom's slip-up was the visit immediately prior to this one, you will have earned the right to force them to prove to YOU that the guns are locked up safely. "hey mom everything locked up?" "leave me alone son" "cmon mom. how about you show me." after she is done huffing and takes you to the safe and shows you they are unloaded inside, remind her it's for the sake of her grandchildren and maybe even give her a hug. Keep everyone's eye on the ball.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice on the approach. I really don't want to be condescending. I have just assumed that a responsible gun owner could explain gun safety to me and how it is practiced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

Me too, but I stopped reading there because you already sound like a pretentious twit

[Anonymous]

Gun-owning farmer here. Your attitude is what is pissing people off. The email plus the reminder once you get here is super annoying. I mean, one or the other. Either ask about my guns before, or when you get here, but for God's sake don't talk about it all the time or I will think you are obsessed. I haven't gotten my gun out in years, it is not loaded and it has a trigger lock on it. If you need more than that explained to you about how safe it is once you get here after I have emailed you about it, I will just wish you would go home because you are a damn fool.

[Anonymous]

by the way, what does "inadmittingly" mean? I live in the country and do not understand these newfangled urbanite words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gun-owning farmer here. Your attitude is what is pissing people off. The email plus the reminder once you get here is super annoying. I mean, one or the other. Either ask about my guns before, or when you get here, but for God's sake don't talk about it all the time or I will think you are obsessed. I haven't gotten my gun out in years, it is not loaded and it has a trigger lock on it. If you need more than that explained to you about how safe it is once you get here after I have emailed you about it, I will just wish you would go home because you are a damn fool.

dude -- OP says they are NOT explaining which is why she asks again. If she got an answer the first time, she would not be asking again. I pretty much think that is her point.
RIF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you never actually had a conversation with these relatives about their guns? What type of guns, what they are used for, how they are secured?

You come across as being very condescending. It sounds like you have made little effort to learn about anything.

I'm from an area that doesn't have a lot of "gun culture" of any sort. My family never had guns. However, when we moved to NoVa (not close-in) it became apparent that many people were were getting to know have guns, including one mom who I've become close friends with.

I asked her about it, and her response was "The question isn't whether or not someone has guns, it's whether and how they are secured."

OP, you need to do some open-minded learning. There is a huge difference between handguns under mattresses and rifles in a gun safe.

But the whole point is that OP is trying to find out whether and how they are secured.

[Anonymous]

I believe stats show that households that own guns as a % of the population is falling to almost all time lows.

the number of guns owned is up due to those who own guns own about 50 a person it seems.

Gun culture is real.

It is mainly people who dream about living in 1805.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gun-owning farmer here. Your attitude is what is pissing people off. The email plus the reminder once you get here is super annoying. I mean, one or the other. Either ask about my guns before, or when you get here, but for God's sake don't talk about it all the time or I will think you are obsessed. I haven't gotten my gun out in years, it is not loaded and it has a trigger lock on it. If you need more than that explained to you about how safe it is once you get here after I have emailed you about it, I will just wish you would go home because you are a damn fool.

Look -- guns are lethal weapons. If you are going to invite families with small children over, it is reasonable and responsible for them to make sure those lethal weapons are locked away and unloaded. That's not "obsession" -- that's being a damn grownup. And if you can't get that, then you shouldn't be a gun owner at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the advice on the approach. I really don't want to be condescending. I have just assumed that a responsible gun owner could explain gun safety to me and how it is practiced.

I get that. But you are failing. You are being condescending, because you do not share this interest, and probably hold some fairly strong views about it despite not really knowing all that much about it. (again--I say this because I've been there, not to beat you up. I held strong views based on limited experience, and that's no way to get the respect of people with extensive experience.) The disrespect, the disregard, the judgment, it is all bleeding through in your interactions, no matter how much you think it is controlled. You are putting a weird energy on these interactions as a result of your lack of experience and it is obvious that it that does not match the energy they are putting on them.

Of course it is probably the case that the reason they are gun people and you aren't is because of other differences between you that manifest in other ways. I'm not saying that they are right and you are wrong. the gun culture is as myopic as any other. But if you don't understand where they are coming from you can't talk to them and point it out because you will get it wrong. So what do you want here? If you just want them to lock the guns up, well your mom forgetting is the best thing that could have happened, because as I said earlier, you are now well within your rights to insist that she shows you the locked guns on each visit. (what that will do to your relationship with your mom is another story...) Everything I'm posting, though, assumes that what you really want to do is reduce tensions and increase trust.