Explain gun culture to me please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm your typical liberal urbanite traveling back home for the holidays with my two young kids and staying amongst relatives who have guns. Each year I send a reminder for them to secure their weapons. Each year I'm met with eye rolls and smirks "it's taken care of" but an unwillingness to discuss how their guns have been secured. Are they unloaded? Are they locked or just placed on a high shelf? Etc? And they almost seem offended that I would question them. But there smirking and eye rolls and lack of transparency doesn't inspire confidence that they take securing them seriously.

I've continued to visit, and just watch my kids extra closely, and won't leave the kids alone with these relatives. We've discussed with them what to do in case they come across a gun.

I understand there is a culture around owning guns, and inadmittingly hate it. But I also get the second amendment is what it is and people have their rights and accept that. But the vagueness and cagey behavior I don't get. Is is too much to ask to be able to have frank discussions? I assume there is some best practices for keeping kids safe, and is it wrong to assume a responsible gun owner would be able to talk about them?

What am I missing?

As someone who has no issue with guns, I can see where you are frustrated.

Your primary responsibility is to keep your kids safe, and you are doing an admirable job. The fact that your relatives treat you like that is disgraceful. They should tell you - and show you - exactly how their guns are secured. That is their responsibility as gun owners.

I would be very clear that you will not be returning unless you have the information you need. Again, I say this as someone who has no issues with gun ownership. I do, however, have an issue with the way you are being disrespected. That's shameful on their part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can tell by the responses why there are so many gun deaths in this country.

+1

[Anonymous]

I lost you at "typical liberal urbanite." You sound annoying. I don't carry, but I'd give you an eye roll just like any of your gun-toting folk LOL

[Anonymous]

They sound defensive and obnoxious. There's nothing wrong with asking how guns are secured in a home your small child will be inhabiting. They are just bad hosts and should understand why you're asking. It's this type of crap that makes a lot of us hate "gun culture."

[Anonymous]

OP, it is obvious that your attitude has alienated them.

What you are "missing" is that you have an attitude problem.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you never actually had a conversation with these relatives about their guns? What type of guns, what they are used for, how they are secured?

You come across as being very condescending. It sounds like you have made little effort to learn about anything.

I'm from an area that doesn't have a lot of "gun culture" of any sort. My family never had guns. However, when we moved to NoVa (not close-in) it became apparent that many people were were getting to know have guns, including one mom who I've become close friends with.

I asked her about it, and her response was "The question isn't whether or not someone has guns, it's whether and how they are secured."

OP, you need to do some open-minded learning. There is a huge difference between handguns under mattresses and rifles in a gun safe.

[Anonymous]

read Gun Guys by Dan Baum. He is also a typical liberal urbanite, so a good guide. (yes I am the poster who recommended it in the other thread.) But uh, don't let them see you reading it.

I bet this is more about the (perceived or real, doesn't matter) chip on your shoulder than anything specific to gun culture. It's a pretty standard human reaction against someone they think judges and looks down on them. Look at the advice people on this board get about deflecting invasive MIL questions about their parenting--it's very similar.

That said, gun culture could be playing a role, but it's hard to say exactly how. They may be of the strain that feels that it takes safety seriously already so your attempts at enforcing it on them are already way less than what they already do, in which case every sanctimonious email you send asking them to be safe and every clumsy in-person followup is taken as a deep insult. Or they may be of the "we never talk about it with untrusted people" strain and while you are family, you demonstrably Don't Get It, so you're untrusted, and the last person they're going to show where and how they keep their guns. Those are two pretty different emotional scenarios. And you may be dealing with both, not just one or the other.

If you want a frank discussion, then start one. Show openness and curiosity towards them and what they care about, not just fear. And listen and be open to what they say and the the idea that you might be wrong and might not have the whole picture, much as you think they don't have the whole picture. I think the details of what you do to get there are going to depend on the personalities and relationships involved, but if anyone there is reasonable and can see things from your POV, it could go well.

Have they ever invited you shooting? Maybe you should take them up on it, or ask to come with if you see them going. The "lib'rul cousin swallows his fear and comes shooting with us" is a big moment. Be sure to schedule it such that you can take your time, or get something to eat after, so you can talk. Oh and, DO NOT GET INTO POLITICS for the love of god. If they do, DO NOT ENGAGE. Make the day something new in your family history, the day you learned about guns, not just red/blue fight number 80,001.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is obvious that your attitude has alienated them.

What you are "missing" is that you have an attitude problem.

+1.

OP do not buy into the "us vs. them" mentality pushed by special interests on both sides. If you can keep your self-admitted "hate" contained, it will go a long way towards having a respectful, person-to-person dialog.

[Anonymous]

read Gun Guys by Dan Baum. He is also a typical liberal urbanite, so a good guide. (yes I am the poster who recommended it in the other thread.) But uh, don't let them see you reading it.

I bet this is more about the (perceived or real, doesn't matter) chip on your shoulder than anything specific to gun culture. It's a pretty standard human reaction against someone they think judges and looks down on them. Look at the advice people on this board get about deflecting invasive MIL questions about their parenting--it's very similar.

That said, gun culture could be playing a role, but it's hard to say exactly how. They may be of the strain that feels that it takes safety seriously already so your attempts at enforcing it on them are already way less than what they already do, in which case every sanctimonious email you send asking them to be safe and every clumsy in-person followup is taken as a deep insult. Or they may be of the "we never talk about it with untrusted people" strain and while you are family, you demonstrably Don't Get It, so you're untrusted, and the last person they're going to show where and how they keep their guns. Those are two pretty different emotional scenarios. And you may be dealing with both, not just one or the other.

If you want a frank discussion, then start one. Show openness and curiosity towards them and what they care about, not just fear. And listen and be open to what they say and the the idea that you might be wrong and might not have the whole picture, much as you think they don't have the whole picture. I think the details of what you do to get there are going to depend on the personalities and relationships involved, but if anyone there is reasonable and can see things from your POV, it could go well.

Have they ever invited you shooting? Maybe you should take them up on it, or ask to come with if you see them going. The "lib'rul cousin swallows his fear and comes shooting with us" is a big moment. Be sure to schedule it such that you can take your time, or get something to eat after, so you can talk. Oh and, DO NOT GET INTO POLITICS for the love of god. If they do, DO NOT ENGAGE. Make the day something new in your family history, the day you learned about guns, not just red/blue fight number 80,001.

I don't know this book, but the rest of this sounds like pretty constructive advice.


Without knowing any of the details or personalities involved, it strikes me that responsible gun owners and parents would be willing, perhaps even eager, to explain where and how the guns are secured, to provide reassurance to you as a parent. But it seems even more likely that inlaws you don't see very often, who may have little in common with you and who feel they're being condescended to, might not feel that inclined to explain anything to you. Indeed, they may feel they're satisfying the minimum by putting up with your presence and your annual reminders. I'd guess probably everyone here has some ground to cede on the way to the reasonable middle.

An open mind and a willingness to learn might provide a surprising opening.

[Anonymous]

10:31 again. another advantage of going shooting with them--after you read the book or learn more about the culture independently--is that it will be an EXCELLENT chance for you to assess for yourself how safety-minded they really are. Think of driving a car, everyone will tell you they are an above-average driver. But being in the car with them is the real test.

[Anonymous]

Telling a mother to have her kids go play with guns responsibly is like telling her to have them go play with fire responsibly, or acid, or rattlesnakes.

Kids and guns do not mix. OP, I totally get your question and your frustration. Gun people are defensive, because they know there is something off about needing to own a weapon that kills many more family and friends than strangers every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously wtf OP! DH is an avid hunter (but you wouldn't know, we don't act hick or talk about it). All guns are always kept unloaded.... Handguns have a lock through the barrel. You're way overreacting.

All guns are always kept unloaded, hmm? That must be why the first rule of gun safety is always, without fail EVERY WEAPON IS A LOADED WEAPON, and you treat them as such. I grew up in a gun house and this is what my dad taught me, and what I am teaching my kids (although we are emphatically not a gun owning house).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I do think it's kind of weird that your relatives wouldn't give you the details on how they are stored, one of the tenets of responsible gun ownership is that you shouldn't give specifics as to where they are stored or how they are secured, because that makes them a more likely target for theft or a break in. Again, I think it is ridiculous that relatives wouldn't make an exception to that for a relative they know well with small kids, but among the gun people I know (most of my family), it is pretty off-limits to discuss the specifics of how & where their guns are stored without a compelling reason (they would consider small kids in the house a compelling reason).

You just completely contradicted yourself and said tenets. If it's tenet, which would they make an exception?

[Anonymous]

OP, here's a suggestion, grab your little snowflakes firmly and tell them to stay the fuck out of other people's closets, because it's rude.

Oh wait, you sound like you like to snoop in other people's things, I can see where they're picking this up.

[Anonymous]

OP - Just don't go if it makes you uncomfortable.