Does anyone believe in a vengeful God?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are all God's CREATION. We are NOT all his CHILDREN. You chose to be a part of the family of Christ - it is free will that allows this.

Yes but who created free will? Who created the good and bad options? God CREATED those too. Why, if not to be vengeful to those who disobey him? He could of just as easily CREATED all of us without free will and only good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are all God's CREATION. We are NOT all his CHILDREN. You chose to be a part of the family of Christ - it is free will that allows this.

Yes but who created free will? Who created the good and bad options? God CREATED those too. Why, if not to be vengeful to those who disobey him? He could of just as easily CREATED all of us without free will and only good.

but without free will, we'd be forced to do as god wanted and couldn't make the right choice to honor him. God wants only those who want him and the rest can go to hell. At least that's how the free will thing works. Sound pretty vengeful to me so it seems like a trick to call it the "gift" of free will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God tortured and killed his only son because of the disobedience of the creatures he created. If that's not vengeful I don't know what is.

No, God allowed men to torture and kill Christ, and He did so because Christ willingly submitted to doing so, so that you and I and everyone else can believe on His name as instead of endure punishment for our own sins so that we can be reconciled to God and spend eternity with Him. That's love, and yes, it's love that He displayed to save us from His vengeance against all who are unrepentant for their own wrong-doings. I personally am happy that God will square accounts with all sin, which both allows justice in the universe and also frees us up to forgive others, and I am also personally happy that He provided a sacrifice so that all may escape His vengeance. It's not hard to admit to God that you're a sinner and that you accept Christ's sacrifice to pay your punishment, and that's all He requires. After that, He will equip you with the Holy Spirit to live for Him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood the common modern concept of God as compassionate, merciful, saving, etc. But wondering if anyone actively believes in God as a vengeful and willfully violent/aggressive being? I'm not talking about the devil/satan, or some off-shoot. But the idea of a supreme being/deity.

Can you describe when you have seen God act in a vengeful way?

Billions of people and I have never seen proof. Please share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God tortured and killed his only son because of the disobedience of the creatures he created. If that's not vengeful I don't know what is.

No, God allowed men to torture and kill Christ, and He did so because Christ willingly submitted to doing so, so that you and I and everyone else can believe on His name as instead of endure punishment for our own sins so that we can be reconciled to God and spend eternity with Him. That's love, and yes, it's love that He displayed to save us from His vengeance against all who are unrepentant for their own wrong-doings. I personally am happy that God will square accounts with all sin, which both allows justice in the universe and also frees us up to forgive others, and I am also personally happy that He provided a sacrifice so that all may escape His vengeance. It's not hard to admit to God that you're a sinner and that you accept Christ's sacrifice to pay your punishment, and that's all He requires. After that, He will equip you with the Holy Spirit to live for Him.

???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood the common modern concept of God as compassionate, merciful, saving, etc. But wondering if anyone actively believes in God as a vengeful and willfully violent/aggressive being? I'm not talking about the devil/satan, or some off-shoot. But the idea of a supreme being/deity.

Can you describe when you have seen God act in a vengeful way?

Billions of people and I have never seen proof. Please share.

There can be no proof of God acting vengefully or mercifully because God is beyond nature and nothing that is supernatural can be testing empirically. It's all a matter of faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never understood the common modern concept of God as compassionate, merciful, saving, etc. But wondering if anyone actively believes in God as a vengeful and willfully violent/aggressive being? I'm not talking about the devil/satan, or some off-shoot. But the idea of a supreme being/deity.

Can you describe when you have seen God act in a vengeful way?

Billions of people and I have never seen proof. Please share.

There can be no proof of God acting vengefully or mercifully because God is beyond nature and nothing that is supernatural can be testing empirically. It's all a matter of faith.

Some religious believers who are extremely intelligent and highly educated, know that normal investigative methods and logic ultimately can't be applied to religious belief.

Yes, there is evidence of some things from biblical times and yes there is not evidence of many other things. This doesn't matter to a person of faith. FAITH is what matters. A strong faith overcomes whatever doubts and concerns one might have about certain aspects of religion. A strong faith does not mean never having doubts - not at all. Doubts are considered to be a normal part of faith. Doubts are ultimately overcome or subdued by the presence of a strong faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God tortured and killed his only son because of the disobedience of the creatures he created. If that's not vengeful I don't know what is.

No, God allowed men to torture and kill Christ, and He did so because Christ willingly submitted to doing so, so that you and I and everyone else can believe on His name as instead of endure punishment for our own sins so that we can be reconciled to God and spend eternity with Him. That's love, and yes, it's love that He displayed to save us from His vengeance against all who are unrepentant for their own wrong-doings. I personally am happy that God will square accounts with all sin, which both allows justice in the universe and also frees us up to forgive others, and I am also personally happy that He provided a sacrifice so that all may escape His vengeance. It's not hard to admit to God that you're a sinner and that you accept Christ's sacrifice to pay your punishment, and that's all He requires. After that, He will equip you with the Holy Spirit to live for Him.

And if you don't do what he asks then what? He casts you out of heaven which is a vengeful act. Which would be no different than you kicking someone out of your house because they disagreed with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God tortured and killed his only son because of the disobedience of the creatures he created. If that's not vengeful I don't know what is.

No, God allowed men to torture and kill Christ, and He did so because Christ willingly submitted to doing so, so that you and I and everyone else can believe on His name as instead of endure punishment for our own sins so that we can be reconciled to God and spend eternity with Him. That's love, and yes, it's love that He displayed to save us from His vengeance against all who are unrepentant for their own wrong-doings. I personally am happy that God will square accounts with all sin, which both allows justice in the universe and also frees us up to forgive others, and I am also personally happy that He provided a sacrifice so that all may escape His vengeance. It's not hard to admit to God that you're a sinner and that you accept Christ's sacrifice to pay your punishment, and that's all He requires. After that, He will equip you with the Holy Spirit to live for Him.

And if you don't do what he asks then what? He casts you out of heaven which is a vengeful act. Which would be no different than you kicking someone out of your house because they disagreed with you.

If I don't like someone, I don't have to let them be in my house. Same goes for God, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Sadly, we are not ALL children of God, but unless we have been forgiven by putting our trust in Jesus Christ, we remain children of wrath. God is indeed a vengeful God, and He will take His vengeance on all who reject the free offer of His son for salvation. But He is also merciful, kind and loving in that He sent Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). As long as we reject His son, we are God's enemies. But Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection has reconciled to God all those who believe in Him.

The sad thing is that you actually believe this. You are the reason people avoid spirituality and religion.

We absolutely ARE all children of a Divine Creator. God IS love. By definition, He (She, It....) is incapable of creating anything but love. Every person on this planet is inherently good. That light is there, no matter how hard it is to see. People have free will and sometimes make bad choices, but humans are by divine creation, good. God (Source, Creator, First Mover, I Am, ...) created us "in His image". Think about what that means. What is God's image? Love.

Christ died as a perfect example of sacrificial love. His death was meant to show that love is unconditional. His message was one of compassion, forgiveness, inclusiveness, humility, and tolerance. Christians have been distorting Christianity for hundreds of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, we are not ALL children of God, but unless we have been forgiven by putting our trust in Jesus Christ, we remain children of wrath. God is indeed a vengeful God, and He will take His vengeance on all who reject the free offer of His son for salvation. But He is also merciful, kind and loving in that He sent Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). As long as we reject His son, we are God's enemies. But Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection has reconciled to God all those who believe in Him.

The sad thing is that you actually believe this. You are the reason people avoid spirituality and religion.

We absolutely ARE all children of a Divine Creator. God IS love. By definition, He (She, It....) is incapable of creating anything but love. Every person on this planet is inherently good. That light is there, no matter how hard it is to see. People have free will and sometimes make bad choices, but humans are by divine creation, good. God (Source, Creator, First Mover, I Am, ...) created us "in His image". Think about what that means. What is God's image? Love.

Christ died as a perfect example of sacrificial love. His death was meant to show that love is unconditional. His message was one of compassion, forgiveness, inclusiveness, humility, and tolerance. Christians have been distorting Christianity for hundreds of years.

and you're distorting it again. Christ's message is only good for people who believe in him. Those who don't know about him, or decide that his story is just that - a story based on other ancient resurrected savior stories - go to hell for eternity (according to the story).

This is not unconditional love -- this is a threat -- but only to those who believe the story. Unfortunately, it is usually taught to gullible children and then society reinforces it, so that many intelligent people still believe it as adults. Luckily, this is changing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, we are not ALL children of God, but unless we have been forgiven by putting our trust in Jesus Christ, we remain children of wrath. God is indeed a vengeful God, and He will take His vengeance on all who reject the free offer of His son for salvation. But He is also merciful, kind and loving in that He sent Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). As long as we reject His son, we are God's enemies. But Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection has reconciled to God all those who believe in Him.

The sad thing is that you actually believe this. You are the reason people avoid spirituality and religion.

We absolutely ARE all children of a Divine Creator. God IS love. By definition, He (She, It....) is incapable of creating anything but love. Every person on this planet is inherently good. That light is there, no matter how hard it is to see. People have free will and sometimes make bad choices, but humans are by divine creation, good. God (Source, Creator, First Mover, I Am, ...) created us "in His image". Think about what that means. What is God's image? Love.

Christ died as a perfect example of sacrificial love. His death was meant to show that love is unconditional. His message was one of compassion, forgiveness, inclusiveness, humility, and tolerance. Christians have been distorting Christianity for hundreds of years.

Christ said to the religious leaders of His day, who refused to accept Him as the Messiah, in John 8:44: "You are of your father, the devil." Even Christ Himself would not say that we are not all God's children. He said, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), so that if you reject Him, you reject God.

Jesus taught that unless we come to Him for forgiveness of our sins, we remain in our sins and at odds with God. All God asks is that you recognize and confess this to Him. I choose to believe this because the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was foretold in Scripture for centuries before Christ's birth, which any believer will tell you is part of their cause to accept the authority of the Bible. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm not sure where you get your ideas that God is only love and tolerance when you can't even say whether God is He, She or It. Jesus said that "God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). The Bible is the only Scripture that recounts a risen Savior for mankind, and all the apostles of Christ except for John died martyrs' deaths. These are men who lived with Christ for three years and knew that He was the Son of God, and they died horrible deaths because they refused to recant their testimony of who Christ was. (I wonder where the inherent goodness of mankind was with those who killed men for their beliefs.) They would have known whether they were just telling fables about Christ, yet they chose to die rather than deny those beliefs. It's not scientific proof, but it's food for thought. I certainly wouldn't give up my life for something I knew wasn't true.

I also believe in Christ because if I examine my own heart, I know that I am indeed not inherently good, and that I owe God a great debt for everything I've ever done wrong. Happily, He has forgiven me in Christ. Yes, this is a message that turns many people off, but it is the truth, and those who accept it joyfully know that "in love, God predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 1:5)

[Anonymous]

You're both right! Jesus is whoever you want him to be according to however you interpret the Bible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, we are not ALL children of God, but unless we have been forgiven by putting our trust in Jesus Christ, we remain children of wrath. God is indeed a vengeful God, and He will take His vengeance on all who reject the free offer of His son for salvation. But He is also merciful, kind and loving in that He sent Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). As long as we reject His son, we are God's enemies. But Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection has reconciled to God all those who believe in Him.

The sad thing is that you actually believe this. You are the reason people avoid spirituality and religion.

We absolutely ARE all children of a Divine Creator. God IS love. By definition, He (She, It....) is incapable of creating anything but love. Every person on this planet is inherently good. That light is there, no matter how hard it is to see. People have free will and sometimes make bad choices, but humans are by divine creation, good. God (Source, Creator, First Mover, I Am, ...) created us "in His image". Think about what that means. What is God's image? Love.

Christ died as a perfect example of sacrificial love. His death was meant to show that love is unconditional. His message was one of compassion, forgiveness, inclusiveness, humility, and tolerance. Christians have been distorting Christianity for hundreds of years.

Christ said to the religious leaders of His day, who refused to accept Him as the Messiah, in John 8:44: "You are of your father, the devil." Even Christ Himself would not say that we are not all God's children. He said, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), so that if you reject Him, you reject God.

Jesus taught that unless we come to Him for forgiveness of our sins, we remain in our sins and at odds with God. All God asks is that you recognize and confess this to Him. I choose to believe this because the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was foretold in Scripture for centuries before Christ's birth, which any believer will tell you is part of their cause to accept the authority of the Bible. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm not sure where you get your ideas that God is only love and tolerance when you can't even say whether God is He, She or It. Jesus said that "God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). The Bible is the only Scripture that recounts a risen Savior for mankind, and all the apostles of Christ except for John died martyrs' deaths. These are men who lived with Christ for three years and knew that He was the Son of God, and they died horrible deaths because they refused to recant their testimony of who Christ was. (I wonder where the inherent goodness of mankind was with those who killed men for their beliefs.) They would have known whether they were just telling fables about Christ, yet they chose to die rather than deny those beliefs. It's not scientific proof, but it's food for thought. I certainly wouldn't give up my life for something I knew wasn't true.

I also believe in Christ because if I examine my own heart, I know that I am indeed not inherently good, and that I owe God a great debt for everything I've ever done wrong. Happily, He has forgiven me in Christ. Yes, this is a message that turns many people off, but it is the truth, and those who accept it joyfully know that "in love, God predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 1:5)

You are just a child. You have childlike faith. And that's ok. We are all on our own path. And we awaken to truths in our own time. You ARE inherently good. God did not send Jesus into the world to die for you because you are "bad". Stop and think about how ridiculous that would be. God (the all-powerful, all-loving, Source of all that is) created you bad so that he could send his Son to suffer a horrible, cruel death. So that you could be "saved". But everyone doesn't get to know. If you were born in the middle of the rain forrest or raised in a country with a different predominant religion, you're screwed. That makes so little sense it is laughable.

God created you in love. You are inherently good. You were created in God's image. God (whatever name you choose to give him/her/it) cannot, by His very nature, create anything other than good. Jesus was a perfect example of God's love in our world. His life and death were meant to be interpreted metaphysically, not literally. He "saved you" by showing you what perfect love is supposed to look like. We can be more like God by following Jesus' example.

As Christians, we have a perfect example of love in Jesus the Christ. However, our Christ does not invalidate other paths. Every single person on this earth has divine worth. I am no more worthy of God's love as a Christian than a Muslim, an Atheist, a Jew, a Wicca, somehow who practices Native American spirituality, Hindi..... We were all created by the Divine Source. We may be on different paths, but our goal should be the same. We are here to learn to love. That's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, we are not ALL children of God, but unless we have been forgiven by putting our trust in Jesus Christ, we remain children of wrath. God is indeed a vengeful God, and He will take His vengeance on all who reject the free offer of His son for salvation. But He is also merciful, kind and loving in that He sent Christ to die for our sins while we were still sinners (Romans 5:8). As long as we reject His son, we are God's enemies. But Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection has reconciled to God all those who believe in Him.

The sad thing is that you actually believe this. You are the reason people avoid spirituality and religion.

We absolutely ARE all children of a Divine Creator. God IS love. By definition, He (She, It....) is incapable of creating anything but love. Every person on this planet is inherently good. That light is there, no matter how hard it is to see. People have free will and sometimes make bad choices, but humans are by divine creation, good. God (Source, Creator, First Mover, I Am, ...) created us "in His image". Think about what that means. What is God's image? Love.

Christ died as a perfect example of sacrificial love. His death was meant to show that love is unconditional. His message was one of compassion, forgiveness, inclusiveness, humility, and tolerance. Christians have been distorting Christianity for hundreds of years.

Christ said to the religious leaders of His day, who refused to accept Him as the Messiah, in John 8:44: "You are of your father, the devil." Even Christ Himself would not say that we are not all God's children. He said, "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), so that if you reject Him, you reject God.

Jesus taught that unless we come to Him for forgiveness of our sins, we remain in our sins and at odds with God. All God asks is that you recognize and confess this to Him. I choose to believe this because the birth, death and resurrection of Christ was foretold in Scripture for centuries before Christ's birth, which any believer will tell you is part of their cause to accept the authority of the Bible. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm not sure where you get your ideas that God is only love and tolerance when you can't even say whether God is He, She or It. Jesus said that "God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). The Bible is the only Scripture that recounts a risen Savior for mankind, and all the apostles of Christ except for John died martyrs' deaths. These are men who lived with Christ for three years and knew that He was the Son of God, and they died horrible deaths because they refused to recant their testimony of who Christ was. (I wonder where the inherent goodness of mankind was with those who killed men for their beliefs.) They would have known whether they were just telling fables about Christ, yet they chose to die rather than deny those beliefs. It's not scientific proof, but it's food for thought. I certainly wouldn't give up my life for something I knew wasn't true.

I also believe in Christ because if I examine my own heart, I know that I am indeed not inherently good, and that I owe God a great debt for everything I've ever done wrong. Happily, He has forgiven me in Christ. Yes, this is a message that turns many people off, but it is the truth, and those who accept it joyfully know that "in love, God predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 1:5)

You are just a child. You have childlike faith. And that's ok. We are all on our own path. And we awaken to truths in our own time. You ARE inherently good. God did not send Jesus into the world to die for you because you are "bad". Stop and think about how ridiculous that would be. God (the all-powerful, all-loving, Source of all that is) created you bad so that he could send his Son to suffer a horrible, cruel death. So that you could be "saved". But everyone doesn't get to know. If you were born in the middle of the rain forrest or raised in a country with a different predominant religion, you're screwed. That makes so little sense it is laughable.

God created you in love. You are inherently good. You were created in God's image. God (whatever name you choose to give him/her/it) cannot, by His very nature, create anything other than good. Jesus was a perfect example of God's love in our world. His life and death were meant to be interpreted metaphysically, not literally. He "saved you" by showing you what perfect love is supposed to look like. We can be more like God by following Jesus' example.

As Christians, we have a perfect example of love in Jesus the Christ. However, our Christ does not invalidate other paths. Every single person on this earth has divine worth. I am no more worthy of God's love as a Christian than a Muslim, an Atheist, a Jew, a Wicca, somehow who practices Native American spirituality, Hindi..... We were all created by the Divine Source. We may be on different paths, but our goal should be the same. We are here to learn to love. That's it.

Nice, comforting thoughts, but it's wishful thinking -- certainly not based on religious scriptures or knowledge of how the universe works, which is hardly "love" based.

really, your thoughts as expressed above are very childlike.