Dual language questions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do all schools in DC provide this testing?

All dual immersion schools should provide this testing.

Only Oyster, I believe.

Yes, he was tested at Oyster.

[Anonymous]

Do kids at oyster take algebra in 7th or whatever the standard is these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do all schools in DC provide this testing?

I should add that my son is at Oyster. I thought that all dual immersion schools tested. Is that not the case? Can parents from other DI schools chime in on testing at their schools please?

Yu Ying tests. Report cards just came out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have heard, and what I observe with my kid and my kids' classmates at a dual language elementary, is that if you don't speak the target language at home, you have very little hope for long-term native fluency in the target language. We have had Spanish-speaking nannies and au pairs and my kids speak passable Spanish and (having started at the school last year) are catching up to their grade level, but they are by no means fluent. I lived in other and had fully bilingual friends with fully bilingual kids, and I'd hear their kids chattering back & forth in both English and the target language, shifting comfortably from one to another. I NEVER hear this from the English-dominant kids at our elementary school. The langua franca (sp?) on the playground is English, even amongst those who have been there since PS.

Am I bothered by this? Not really. My kids are well above their grade levels in English and Math, and I think they will come out of the elementary school fairly fluent in Spanish. The dual language program offers a good challenge that keeps their mind busy, and I don't see their other skills suffering. Will they be fully bilingual? I doubt it. Will they survive in a Spanish only country and further develop their language skills? Absolutely.

But, IMHO, true bilingualism (sp?) starts at home with immersion at home. It is then reinforced in a school setting. My friend's daughter is very verbally fluent in French, and they started at Stokes last year. Since she was in an English-only school to start with, her French reading and writing are behind but she's catching up. Both pieces of the puzzle need to be there, and it takes a lot of effort. I honestly don't think it's possible to achieve full bilingualism unless someone in the household speaks it exclusively

I agree that learning the target language at a young age is a bonus and I don't care if my kid is bilingual or even proficient by the time they finish elementary school since they can always catch up in the other language later. My kid is above grade level in English and Math so I love having another language to provide a challenge and having something that he has to "work on" at school.

My kid goes to Yu Ying and my kid's tones are "perfect". It's incredibly difficult for adults to learn if ever so I'm happy that he has the opportunity to develop an "ear" at a young age.

English is my second language and I mastered it without my parents speaking it at home. My kid's Chinese tutor speaks excellent English (good enough to get a Masters at Georgetown) without ever having parents speak English at home. I don't think you need to have anyone in the home speak the target language to become bilingual.

That's great to hear about your kid, very encouraging.

But your last paragraph, keep in mind that English is de facto the easiest language to learn, even if in theory it has difficult grammar and so on, because it's spoken everywhere in the world, television, movies, business. Parents in every developing country want their kid to learn English, followed by other major languages. And it's very easy to learn English when living in the US. But this thread is about learning a language other than English while living in the US, which is completely different, and it really helps to have it at home. Though as your example indicates, it's possible without this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do kids at oyster take algebra in 7th or whatever the standard is these days?

No, currently students don't take Algebra until 8th grade. This is a hold over from the previous principal/regime. The new principal (who is FANTASTIC btw) has vowed to introduce more rigor into the curriculum (especially in math). She will make no significant changes this school year because she wants to see what currently works/doesn't work. However, next school year we will start to see improvements/changes in curriculum and teaching. She really is a master teacher/educator. The difference between Principal Canizales and her predecessor is stark.

[Anonymous]

Thanks PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have heard, and what I observe with my kid and my kids' classmates at a dual language elementary, is that if you don't speak the target language at home, you have very little hope for long-term native fluency in the target language. We have had Spanish-speaking nannies and au pairs and my kids speak passable Spanish and (having started at the school last year) are catching up to their grade level, but they are by no means fluent. I lived in other and had fully bilingual friends with fully bilingual kids, and I'd hear their kids chattering back & forth in both English and the target language, shifting comfortably from one to another. I NEVER hear this from the English-dominant kids at our elementary school. The langua franca (sp?) on the playground is English, even amongst those who have been there since PS.

Am I bothered by this? Not really. My kids are well above their grade levels in English and Math, and I think they will come out of the elementary school fairly fluent in Spanish. The dual language program offers a good challenge that keeps their mind busy, and I don't see their other skills suffering. Will they be fully bilingual? I doubt it. Will they survive in a Spanish only country and further develop their language skills? Absolutely.

But, IMHO, true bilingualism (sp?) starts at home with immersion at home. It is then reinforced in a school setting. My friend's daughter is very verbally fluent in French, and they started at Stokes last year. Since she was in an English-only school to start with, her French reading and writing are behind but she's catching up. Both pieces of the puzzle need to be there, and it takes a lot of effort. I honestly don't think it's possible to achieve full bilingualism unless someone in the household speaks it exclusively

I agree that learning the target language at a young age is a bonus and I don't care if my kid is bilingual or even proficient by the time they finish elementary school since they can always catch up in the other language later. My kid is above grade level in English and Math so I love having another language to provide a challenge and having something that he has to "work on" at school.

My kid goes to Yu Ying and my kid's tones are "perfect". It's incredibly difficult for adults to learn if ever so I'm happy that he has the opportunity to develop an "ear" at a young age.

English is my second language and I mastered it without my parents speaking it at home. My kid's Chinese tutor speaks excellent English (good enough to get a Masters at Georgetown) without ever having parents speak English at home. I don't think you need to have anyone in the home speak the target language to become bilingual.

That's great to hear about your kid, very encouraging.

But your last paragraph, keep in mind that English is de facto the easiest language to learn, even if in theory it has difficult grammar and so on, because it's spoken everywhere in the world, television, movies, business. Parents in every developing country want their kid to learn English, followed by other major languages. And it's very easy to learn English when living in the US. But this thread is about learning a language other than English while living in the US, which is completely different, and it really helps to have it at home. Though as your example indicates, it's possible without this.

LOL! No, English is NOT spoken everywhere in the world... don't know why Americans think this and expect everyone to know and speak English.

Our Chinese tutor came here when she was 22yrs old for her Masters. She is completely bilingual without having parents who speak English and without the benefit of an immersion program with native speaker teachers or peers.

My DH and I are both bilingual (different languages) without the benefit of our parents speaking the language and only living in the country where the second language is spoken in our twenties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do all schools in DC provide this testing?

I should add that my son is at Oyster. I thought that all dual immersion schools tested. Is that not the case? Can parents from other DI schools chime in on testing at their schools please?

Yu Ying tests. Report cards just came out.

So, only Oyster and Yu Ying test target language proficiency? Any other schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have heard, and what I observe with my kid and my kids' classmates at a dual language elementary, is that if you don't speak the target language at home, you have very little hope for long-term native fluency in the target language. We have had Spanish-speaking nannies and au pairs and my kids speak passable Spanish and (having started at the school last year) are catching up to their grade level, but they are by no means fluent. I lived in other and had fully bilingual friends with fully bilingual kids, and I'd hear their kids chattering back & forth in both English and the target language, shifting comfortably from one to another. I NEVER hear this from the English-dominant kids at our elementary school. The langua franca (sp?) on the playground is English, even amongst those who have been there since PS.

Am I bothered by this? Not really. My kids are well above their grade levels in English and Math, and I think they will come out of the elementary school fairly fluent in Spanish. The dual language program offers a good challenge that keeps their mind busy, and I don't see their other skills suffering. Will they be fully bilingual? I doubt it. Will they survive in a Spanish only country and further develop their language skills? Absolutely.

But, IMHO, true bilingualism (sp?) starts at home with immersion at home. It is then reinforced in a school setting. My friend's daughter is very verbally fluent in French, and they started at Stokes last year. Since she was in an English-only school to start with, her French reading and writing are behind but she's catching up. Both pieces of the puzzle need to be there, and it takes a lot of effort. I honestly don't think it's possible to achieve full bilingualism unless someone in the household speaks it exclusively

I agree that learning the target language at a young age is a bonus and I don't care if my kid is bilingual or even proficient by the time they finish elementary school since they can always catch up in the other language later. My kid is above grade level in English and Math so I love having another language to provide a challenge and having something that he has to "work on" at school.

My kid goes to Yu Ying and my kid's tones are "perfect". It's incredibly difficult for adults to learn if ever so I'm happy that he has the opportunity to develop an "ear" at a young age.

English is my second language and I mastered it without my parents speaking it at home. My kid's Chinese tutor speaks excellent English (good enough to get a Masters at Georgetown) without ever having parents speak English at home. I don't think you need to have anyone in the home speak the target language to become bilingual.

That's great to hear about your kid, very encouraging.

But your last paragraph, keep in mind that English is de facto the easiest language to learn, even if in theory it has difficult grammar and so on, because it's spoken everywhere in the world, television, movies, business. Parents in every developing country want their kid to learn English, followed by other major languages. And it's very easy to learn English when living in the US. But this thread is about learning a language other than English while living in the US, which is completely different, and it really helps to have it at home. Though as your example indicates, it's possible without this.

LOL! No, English is NOT spoken everywhere in the world... don't know why Americans think this and expect everyone to know and speak English.

Our Chinese tutor came here when she was 22yrs old for her Masters. She is completely bilingual without having parents who speak English and without the benefit of an immersion program with native speaker teachers or peers.

My DH and I are both bilingual (different languages) without the benefit of our parents speaking the language and only living in the country where the second language is spoken in our twenties.

This! I'm American and have lived abroad and you only here this nonsense about bilingualism from unsavvy Americans. Sad, really. My daughter is immersed in Latin culture, attends a biligual school and has perfect native fluency-all with non-native parents. I speak passable and my DH speaks none. Yet, from numerous sources who have no reason to lie, DD's Spanish is flawless. Will it be maintained? Only time will tell, but she's perfect now. And there's no reason to assume this won't remain the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I have heard, and what I observe with my kid and my kids' classmates at a dual language elementary, is that if you don't speak the target language at home, you have very little hope for long-term native fluency in the target language. We have had Spanish-speaking nannies and au pairs and my kids speak passable Spanish and (having started at the school last year) are catching up to their grade level, but they are by no means fluent. I lived in other and had fully bilingual friends with fully bilingual kids, and I'd hear their kids chattering back & forth in both English and the target language, shifting comfortably from one to another. I NEVER hear this from the English-dominant kids at our elementary school. The langua franca (sp?) on the playground is English, even amongst those who have been there since PS.

Am I bothered by this? Not really. My kids are well above their grade levels in English and Math, and I think they will come out of the elementary school fairly fluent in Spanish. The dual language program offers a good challenge that keeps their mind busy, and I don't see their other skills suffering. Will they be fully bilingual? I doubt it. Will they survive in a Spanish only country and further develop their language skills? Absolutely.

But, IMHO, true bilingualism (sp?) starts at home with immersion at home. It is then reinforced in a school setting. My friend's daughter is very verbally fluent in French, and they started at Stokes last year. Since she was in an English-only school to start with, her French reading and writing are behind but she's catching up. Both pieces of the puzzle need to be there, and it takes a lot of effort. I honestly don't think it's possible to achieve full bilingualism unless someone in the household speaks it exclusively

I agree that learning the target language at a young age is a bonus and I don't care if my kid is bilingual or even proficient by the time they finish elementary school since they can always catch up in the other language later. My kid is above grade level in English and Math so I love having another language to provide a challenge and having something that he has to "work on" at school.

My kid goes to Yu Ying and my kid's tones are "perfect". It's incredibly difficult for adults to learn if ever so I'm happy that he has the opportunity to develop an "ear" at a young age.

English is my second language and I mastered it without my parents speaking it at home. My kid's Chinese tutor speaks excellent English (good enough to get a Masters at Georgetown) without ever having parents speak English at home. I don't think you need to have anyone in the home speak the target language to become bilingual.

That's great to hear about your kid, very encouraging.

But your last paragraph, keep in mind that English is de facto the easiest language to learn, even if in theory it has difficult grammar and so on, because it's spoken everywhere in the world, television, movies, business. Parents in every developing country want their kid to learn English, followed by other major languages. And it's very easy to learn English when living in the US. But this thread is about learning a language other than English while living in the US, which is completely different, and it really helps to have it at home. Though as your example indicates, it's possible without this.

LOL! No, English is NOT spoken everywhere in the world... don't know why Americans think this and expect everyone to know and speak English.

Our Chinese tutor came here when she was 22yrs old for her Masters. She is completely bilingual without having parents who speak English and without the benefit of an immersion program with native speaker teachers or peers.

My DH and I are both bilingual (different languages) without the benefit of our parents speaking the language and only living in the country where the second language is spoken in our twenties.

This! I'm American and have lived abroad and you only here this nonsense about bilingualism from unsavvy Americans. Sad, really. My daughter is immersed in Latin culture, attends a biligual school and has perfect native fluency-all with non-native parents. I speak passable and my DH speaks none. Yet, from numerous sources who have no reason to lie, DD's Spanish is flawless. Will it be maintained? Only time will tell, but she's perfect now. And there's no reason to assume this won't remain the case.

I know, I can never understand the DCUM folks who claim that even if your kid is in an immersion school they will never succeed without a native speaker at home. When, exactly, are we expected to begin language lessons for our children if we don't speak another language? Never? My child tested at High novice after PK4, and we have every reason to believe he is, in fact, learning to speak the target language.

[Anonymous]

One of the problems, though, is that even if you are fluent in the target language at age 8, you have to continue to develop the language in order to use it as an adult, or you will be an adult who speaks the target language like an 8 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems, though, is that even if you are fluent in the target language at age 8, you have to continue to develop the language in order to use it as an adult, or you will be an adult who speaks the target language like an 8 year old.

Well, yeah. That's why there is middle, high school, college... living abroad, etc.

If you are only getting the language at home and not at school, your language ability will remain those of an 8 yr old even with native speaking parents.

[Anonymous]

This is a weird argument even for dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the problems, though, is that even if you are fluent in the target language at age 8, you have to continue to develop the language in order to use it as an adult, or you will be an adult who speaks the target language like an 8 year old.

Another load of bull. The language will be developed vis a vis reading. You can have two uneducated parents who speak "broken English" or whatever you'd call non-standard English and their kid could speak perfectly standard English via building a vocab. from reading. This is where language ability takes off- through reading, which is why it's so important. Once you can actually speak the language, you only get better and more fluent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:do all schools in DC provide this testing?

I should add that my son is at Oyster. I thought that all dual immersion schools tested. Is that not the case? Can parents from other DI schools chime in on testing at their schools please?

Yu Ying tests. Report cards just came out.

So, only Oyster and Yu Ying test target language proficiency? Any other schools?

It seems crazy to me to even consider that all dual-language schools in DC don't test for language proficiency. But then again, there is a lot that's surprising or shocking about DC, so maybe there are schools that don't test for it? I just assume (and will continue to until there's proof otherwise) that all schools that call themselves dual language are testing for proficiency. There are many schools in DC that offer language instruction but do NOT call themselves dual language or bilingual, and I doubt they test because they're not really setting up the expectation that somehow their students will be bilingual. When I was a kid (which, granted, was a looooong time ago and not in DC), my school never expected us to be bilingual and the only students who took language tests for proficiency were trying to test out of Level 1 or Level 2 college courses in that language (so they took AP tests to place out and test for proficiency).

I'll be surprised if any DC dual language schools don't test for proficiency. How else will they know they're succeeding in their language instruction and curriculum?