Struggling with idea of getting DC baptized

[Anonymous]

Threats of hell and whatever this week's pope says, follow your heart. I got my DC baptized but bowed out of religious training because I'm not committed to the dogma. I'll celebrate holidays, but not go to church. The church is in an ongoing crisis. Until it repairs itself from the top up, there is no way my kid is going into a confessional, but, hey, I'm just following my heart. Follow your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know whether this helps or not. One is actually not baptized a Catholic--even if a Catholic priest does it--one is baptized a Christian. This is why Protestant converts to the Catholic Church are not baptized--their baptism is fully accepted as a Christian baptism. (Although I don't think a Mormon baptism would be accepted.) It is also why your child can't be baptized by a priest if it is found that someone of any faith has already baptized him or her in the bathtub.

So I think your first question is do you want your children baptized as Christians. If so, your second question is whether you want a Catholic priest to do it, clergy from another church, or indeed yourself as someone suggested.

The Catholic church is a human institution and will always have the same frailities as any other human institution, including governments and corporations. It is actually not realistic to expect a higher standard. Boccaccio wrote about this long ago in the Decameron, where an innocent visited corrupt Rome centuries ago. His conclusion: Any church that could withstand all the corruption he saw and still survive and give hope to many must have something really good going for it! Or as my grandmother used to say, "Priest are just servants of the church, and you know how hard it these days is to find good help"

OP you said: "I also assume DC will have a lot of questions about religion themselves one day and quite frankly, I can't answer them and refuse to answer them with sentences that start with "Well, Father so and so says..."

Whichever way you take, please don't eve say that! It is important to be educated in church teachings and give a straightforward and honest answer along the lines of: "The church's reason for XYZ is ABC, but I have a hard time agreeing with that because of PQR." (And if you can't articulate the Church teaching have a Catechism of the Catholic church to look it up.) It would be nice, but not necessary, to add, "Maybe someday I will understand the reasons for its position and support it; I just don't right now."

The church, properly understood, strongly supports respectful (emphasis on this word) dissent because thinking Catholics are its strongest asset. My chaplain at college was fond of saying the best Catholics are agnostic at least half the time.

Another poster here: my father used the Decameron reference too, but I wonder Boccaccio would feel about today's scandals involving pedophile priests and Magdelan Laundries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know whether this helps or not. One is actually not baptized a Catholic--even if a Catholic priest does it--one is baptized a Christian. This is why Protestant converts to the Catholic Church are not baptized--their baptism is fully accepted as a Christian baptism. (Although I don't think a Mormon baptism would be accepted.) It is also why your child can't be baptized by a priest if it is found that someone of any faith has already baptized him or her in the bathtub.

So I think your first question is do you want your children baptized as Christians. If so, your second question is whether you want a Catholic priest to do it, clergy from another church, or indeed yourself as someone suggested.

The Catholic church is a human institution and will always have the same frailities as any other human institution, including governments and corporations. It is actually not realistic to expect a higher standard. Boccaccio wrote about this long ago in the Decameron, where an innocent visited corrupt Rome centuries ago. His conclusion: Any church that could withstand all the corruption he saw and still survive and give hope to many must have something really good going for it! Or as my grandmother used to say, "Priest are just servants of the church, and you know how hard it these days is to find good help"

OP you said: "I also assume DC will have a lot of questions about religion themselves one day and quite frankly, I can't answer them and refuse to answer them with sentences that start with "Well, Father so and so says..."

Whichever way you take, please don't eve say that! It is important to be educated in church teachings and give a straightforward and honest answer along the lines of: "The church's reason for XYZ is ABC, but I have a hard time agreeing with that because of PQR." (And if you can't articulate the Church teaching have a Catechism of the Catholic church to look it up.) It would be nice, but not necessary, to add, "Maybe someday I will understand the reasons for its position and support it; I just don't right now."

The church, properly understood, strongly supports respectful (emphasis on this word) dissent because thinking Catholics are its strongest asset. My chaplain at college was fond of saying the best Catholics are agnostic at least half the time.

Is that correct? I am baptized Christian, not Catholic, but my extended family is all Catholic and I went to a Catholic university, so I have been to many, many Catholic masses, weddings, etc. At all the masses I attended, the priest would invite all baptized Catholics to come forward for communion. Since I am not a baptized Catholic, I sat out countless communions, sometimes as the only one remaining in the pew. Could I have gone forward and taken communion? Sorry for the hijack, OP. I, too, struggled with whether to baptize my child, because I'm not particularly religious, but ended up doing so, although not in the Catholic church.

[Anonymous]

This is actually a very complicated question and i don't know all the ins and outs, but will attempt to give a simplified answer.

Generally Christian baptism is a prerequisite. However, it is not sufficient. One must believe in transubstantiation, which is not a doctrine of Protestant churches, but it is of Orthodox churches. So a Russian Orthodox, for example, could receive communion at a Catholic mass. The rules around this can vary over time and across jurisdictions. For example, in some places, it would be frowned upon for an Orthodox to regularly take communion at a Catholic mass if there was a nearby Orthodox church where they could go and vice versa. (This probably has more to do with trying to preserve as much post-Schism harmony as possible.)

Signs that one believes in transubstantiation are receipt of first communion or the sacrament of confirmation in a church that has an official doctrine of transubstantiation. Simply having been baptized by a priest does not make one eligible to receive communion in the ordinary course, although having a Catholic baptismal certificate would certainly make it much easier for the priest to decide in favor of giving communion for exceptional reasons to someone who has had neither first communion nor confirmation.

I do know Catholics who doubt the doctrine of transubstantiation. That does not make them ineligible to receive communion if they have the will to believe it, yet do not believe. If they have decided they utterly reject the doctrine, they are ineligible to receive communion even if they were baptized in a Catholic church, partook in first communion, and were confirmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Baptize the child yourself.

+1

This is one of the few ways The RC Church is simpler.
You can baptize the baby, and explore a more formal one later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Threats of hell and whatever this week's pope says, follow your heart. I got my DC baptized but bowed out of religious training because I'm not committed to the dogma. I'll celebrate holidays, but not go to church. The church is in an ongoing crisis. Until it repairs itself from the top up, there is no way my kid is going into a confessional, but, hey, I'm just following my heart. Follow your heart.

I friend of mine is a priest and writes for the blog BUSTED HALO. Good stuff there.
I think you need to have beer with a priest, preferable Jesuit, and lay out your concerns.

Put them on the table and explore them.

My friend (who is 42) and I discussed my reservations at length. (He shared his, as well, as he was training to be a priest) and I told him the actual church where my husband and kids felt at home didn't feel right for me. He suggested I try to change it. I said it was impossible.

He also said as a priest, he could not work there, because he would not fit in. "So how the F am I supposed to change it???"
He said, "You are mom and you are louder than I am. I've seen you make black belts cry."

A year later, I feel like I have had some opportunities to influence the perspective of my community, but only because I jumped into it. Not by staying out of it.

YMMV.

I really really wish everyone had a cool person like my friend to talk to.
I also wish more people talked to their friends about theology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baptize the child yourself.

+1

This is one of the few ways The RC Church is simpler.
You can baptize the baby, and explore a more formal one later.

Protestants don't recognize non-church baptisms? Didn't know that. When I was growing up Catholic quite a point was made of the fact that anyone could baptize. It was generally illustrated by what I think was an apocryphal story of a teenage boy who was attacked by a shark in the ocean and when his near lifeless body was brought to shore his girlfriend baptized him. Then he died. This was presented as an uplifting and happy story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the problem if you don't have him baptized? Who would know?

The problem is the child will go to hell if s/he dies. This isn't about who "knows."

LOL. Sorry, but I just can't understand people that actually believe this. What's it like walking around believing that there's a superpower who would send innocent children to hell? Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the problem if you don't have him baptized? Who would know?

The problem is the child will go to hell if s/he dies. This isn't about who "knows."

LOL. Sorry, but I just can't understand people that actually believe this. What's it like walking around believing that there's a superpower who would send innocent children to hell? Ridiculous.

Don't know what your viewpoint is, but just to note that Catholic doctrine does NOT teach that unbaptized babies go to hell.

[Anonymous]

I'm another one in your shoes, OP and PPs who have chimed in. My child is three and a half and I still have not come to a resolution on this. I have considered joining a presbyterian church, but we did agree to raise our children as Catholics when we were married, and it does feel like giving up a lot of our family traditions and identity. Sorry I don't have more helpful feedback. I feel very uncomfortable that my child has not been baptized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is actually a very complicated question and i don't know all the ins and outs, but will attempt to give a simplified answer.

Generally Christian baptism is a prerequisite. However, it is not sufficient. One must believe in transubstantiation, which is not a doctrine of Protestant churches, but it is of Orthodox churches. So a Russian Orthodox, for example, could receive communion at a Catholic mass. The rules around this can vary over time and across jurisdictions. For example, in some places, it would be frowned upon for an Orthodox to regularly take communion at a Catholic mass if there was a nearby Orthodox church where they could go and vice versa. (This probably has more to do with trying to preserve as much post-Schism harmony as possible.)

Signs that one believes in transubstantiation are receipt of first communion or the sacrament of confirmation in a church that has an official doctrine of transubstantiation. Simply having been baptized by a priest does not make one eligible to receive communion in the ordinary course, although having a Catholic baptismal certificate would certainly make it much easier for the priest to decide in favor of giving communion for exceptional reasons to someone who has had neither first communion nor confirmation.

I do know Catholics who doubt the doctrine of transubstantiation. That does not make them ineligible to receive communion if they have the will to believe it, yet do not believe. If they have decided they utterly reject the doctrine, they are ineligible to receive communion even if they were baptized in a Catholic church, partook in first communion, and were confirmed.

PP here who asked the question. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm a Protestant who doesn't believe in transubstantiation so it sounds to have sat out those communions. Now back to the regularly scheduled programming...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I've considered the Episcopalian Church. I think it's important to question any religious belief system-- I couldn't see telling my DC NOT to question something and just "have faith," doing so seems against human nature and totalitarian. Strange, I come from very conservative parents who are against having a big government but who, based on what they say, would have no issue with the Catholic church telling everyone how to live and deciding who gets what from the government.

That said, it's a tough call for me. when asked what happens when we die, my answer is I don't know and I'm comfortable with that. How can I send DC to religious ed where they talk about heaven and then lie if he asks me what I think. DH isn't Christian and I'm not going to tell DC that DH is going someplace else because he isn't baptized. I feel like DC is just going to get confused if I can't get with the program. But, again, I'd like DC to have some sort of tie to Christianity and the holidays we celebrate (we will be celebrating easter and christmas with my parents) and decide when he's older how far he'd like to take it, if at all.

If you're not a practicing Catholic now, must you decide anything at this moment? Your child is very young, right? I don't understand the urgency here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Is that correct? I am baptized Christian, not Catholic, but my extended family is all Catholic and I went to a Catholic university, so I have been to many, many Catholic masses, weddings, etc. At all the masses I attended, the priest would invite all baptized Catholics to come forward for communion. Since I am not a baptized Catholic, I sat out countless communions, sometimes as the only one remaining in the pew. Could I have gone forward and taken communion? Sorry for the hijack, OP. I, too, struggled with whether to baptize my child, because I'm not particularly religious, but ended up doing so, although not in the Catholic church.

Your Baptism is valid and recognized by the Catholic church, but, no, you could not have taken communion because you were not in a state of grace.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

I don't know you and don't know your sins, mortal or otherwise, but it doesn't sound like you have been attending Mass or Days of Holy Obligation regularly. If you knew attendance was something you were supposed to do and still didn't attend without a reason such as personal sickness, necessary travel, etc., then this would mean you could not take communion until you had been to Confession.

Confession is not as intimidating as it seems and during Lent there are extended hours for this sacrament at Catholic churches because traditionally even if a person only goes once a year, it is for his/her Easter confession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is that correct? I am baptized Christian, not Catholic, but my extended family is all Catholic and I went to a Catholic university, so I have been to many, many Catholic masses, weddings, etc. At all the masses I attended, the priest would invite all baptized Catholics to come forward for communion. Since I am not a baptized Catholic, I sat out countless communions, sometimes as the only one remaining in the pew. Could I have gone forward and taken communion? Sorry for the hijack, OP. I, too, struggled with whether to baptize my child, because I'm not particularly religious, but ended up doing so, although not in the Catholic church.

Your Baptism is valid and recognized by the Catholic church, but, no, you could not have taken communion because you were not in a state of grace.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

I don't know you and don't know your sins, mortal or otherwise, but it doesn't sound like you have been attending Mass or Days of Holy Obligation regularly. If you knew attendance was something you were supposed to do and still didn't attend without a reason such as personal sickness, necessary travel, etc., then this would mean you could not take communion until you had been to Confession.

Confession is not as intimidating as it seems and during Lent there are extended hours for this sacrament at Catholic churches because traditionally even if a person only goes once a year, it is for his/her Easter confession.

ETA: Oops. pp, just reread and saw you are not Catholic. So no, you were not able to take Communion.