Horace Mann: K-5?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people that are fighting to keep 6th at Mann will take their kids out of the system beginning with seventh grade and go to private schools - without exception. (some will move to Montgomery or Fairfax) Is it fair to the rest of the school(s) to keep 6th when the resources could be used so much more effectively elsewhere or even within Mann?

How about using all the resources those Mann kids won't use in grades 7-12?

I think you're missing the point. Assuming that all Mann students go on to private school, keeping 6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition. If most Mann kids went on to Hardy or Deal, the decision to retain grade 6 at Mann would be more fiscally justifiable, since they'd be in the system one way or the other. Of course, if that were the case, there would be no reason to keep grade 6 at Mann.

[Anonymous]

6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition.

I made this point earlier, however I was too crass. Keeping 6th at Mann is little more than a $28,500 cash gift to each family of a Mann 6th grader, because all of these 25 kids would otherwise be at Maret, NCS et al for that very same year, spending $28,500.

Meanwhile, can anyone reading this point me to solid research indicating that educating 11 year olds together with 13-14 year olds is sound policy, benefitting the younger kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Meanwhile, can anyone reading this point me to solid research indicating that educating 11 year olds together with 13-14 year olds is sound policy, benefitting the younger kids?

I don't get your point! Can YOU point ME to solid research indicating that educating 6 year olds with 10-11 year olds is sound policy? If you argument had merit then each year of school education would need a school all to itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition.

I made this point earlier, however I was too crass. Keeping 6th at Mann is little more than a $28,500 cash gift to each family of a Mann 6th grader, because all of these 25 kids would otherwise be at Maret, NCS et al for that very same year, spending $28,500.

Meanwhile, can anyone reading this point me to solid research indicating that educating 11 year olds together with 13-14 year olds is sound policy, benefitting the younger kids?

This is one of those educational trends that shifts back and forth; I and all of my college friends went to 6-8 middle school 20+ years ago, on the front end of a similar shift. I was surprised when I moved to DC and learned that DCPS still operated on the JRHS/HS model. I think the reason it shifts is that there is no good solution, largely because of the age. 11-14 is pretty much a difficult age socially and emotionally, so people tinker around the edges looking for some solution that produces positive educational results. As the above poster suggests, the argument against placing 11 yos with 14 yos is no less compelling than the one against placing 11 yos with 5 yos.

Then there's the whole k-8 model....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people that are fighting to keep 6th at Mann will take their kids out of the system beginning with seventh grade and go to private schools - without exception. (some will move to Montgomery or Fairfax) Is it fair to the rest of the school(s) to keep 6th when the resources could be used so much more effectively elsewhere or even within Mann?

How about using all the resources those Mann kids won't use in grades 7-12?

I think you're missing the point. Assuming that all Mann students go on to private school, keeping 6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition. If most Mann kids went on to Hardy or Deal, the decision to retain grade 6 at Mann would be more fiscally justifiable, since they'd be in the system one way or the other. Of course, if that were the case, there would be no reason to keep grade 6 at Mann.

No, I understood the point perfectly and was bristling at the suggestion that somehow these parents were getting something they shouldn't when they'll be continuing to support the school system through their taxes for 6 more years (grades 7-12) while also paying private school tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition.

I made this point earlier, however I was too crass. Keeping 6th at Mann is little more than a $28,500 cash gift to each family of a Mann 6th grader, because all of these 25 kids would otherwise be at Maret, NCS et al for that very same year, spending $28,500.

Why not just shut down Mann altogether, since then all those kids would go to Maret etc. starting in K, unburdening DC taxpayers further?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the people that are fighting to keep 6th at Mann will take their kids out of the system beginning with seventh grade and go to private schools - without exception. (some will move to Montgomery or Fairfax) Is it fair to the rest of the school(s) to keep 6th when the resources could be used so much more effectively elsewhere or even within Mann?

How about using all the resources those Mann kids won't use in grades 7-12?

I think you're missing the point. Assuming that all Mann students go on to private school, keeping 6th grade at Mann means that DCPS will be spending money on students who otherwise wouldn't be in the system. DCPS will be paying to educate 25 kids for an extra year so their parents can put off paying private school tuition. If most Mann kids went on to Hardy or Deal, the decision to retain grade 6 at Mann would be more fiscally justifiable, since they'd be in the system one way or the other. Of course, if that were the case, there would be no reason to keep grade 6 at Mann.

No, I understood the point perfectly and was bristling at the suggestion that somehow these parents were getting something they shouldn't when they'll be continuing to support the school system through their taxes for 6 more years (grades 7-12) while also paying private school tuition.

Well, while we're at it, let's start giving rebates to all the childless people in DC who are paying taxes for school services they won't use. Come on.

Every other public ES in the city is going k-5 or k-8. K-6 is not part of DCPS anymore -- except, apparently, for one school where the parents are loud, wealthy, and shameless enough to demand special treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every other public ES in the city is going k-5 or k-8. K-6 is not part of DCPS anymore -- except, apparently, for one school where the parents are loud, wealthy, and shameless enough to demand special treatment.

This is indeed the meat of the matter. And it is the reason that it is only a matter of time before Mann drops grade 6. Yes, the parents are loud, wealthy, and shameless enough to postpone the inevitable, but they are not loud, wealthy, and shameless enough to avoid it indefinitely. It's either K-5 or K-8 and given that there's NO way DCPS will expend its resources expanding Mann (of all schools) to K-8, prepare to lose grade 6 is the near future.

[Anonymous]

I took the Mann tour this morning (and was impressed). Mann is keeping its sixth grade for only one more year (the principal said she "had to sign in blood" that she wouldn't seek additional extensions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I took the Mann tour this morning (and was impressed). Mann is keeping its sixth grade for only one more year (the principal said she "had to sign in blood" that she wouldn't seek additional extensions).

DC being DC, it seems pretty late to announce that 6th grade is being dropped for next year. Any parents who want a private school really have to start looking/touring/applying in the early Fall. So really they should announce the change by Summer for the year following.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I took the Mann tour this morning (and was impressed). Mann is keeping its sixth grade for only one more year (the principal said she "had to sign in blood" that she wouldn't seek additional extensions).

GOOD! Glad to hear it - thanks for the scoop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took the Mann tour this morning (and was impressed). Mann is keeping its sixth grade for only one more year (the principal said she "had to sign in blood" that she wouldn't seek additional extensions).

DC being DC, it seems pretty late to announce that 6th grade is being dropped for next year. Any parents who want a private school really have to start looking/touring/applying in the early Fall. So really they should announce the change by Summer for the year following.

No, this year's Mann 5th graders will take 6th grade at Mann; this year's Mann 4th graders will be there only through 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took the Mann tour this morning (and was impressed). Mann is keeping its sixth grade for only one more year (the principal said she "had to sign in blood" that she wouldn't seek additional extensions).

DC being DC, it seems pretty late to announce that 6th grade is being dropped for next year. Any parents who want a private school really have to start looking/touring/applying in the early Fall. So really they should announce the change by Summer for the year following.

No, this year's Mann 5th graders will take 6th grade at Mann; this year's Mann 4th graders will be there only through 5th grade.

Huzzah!!

[Anonymous]

Personally, I changed my mind about Key and Mann because of their historical geography. Much of ward 3 sits on top of a huge munitions dump created by the US Army at the turn of the century. Thanks to AU and the US Army, the exclusive neighborhoods of Palisades and Spring Valley are sitting on dangerous and contaminated soil. The residents there want to keep this fact hush-hush because of property values. I think I'll stay east and south of the park.......If you don't believe read for yourself....

http://www.publicpolicy.umd.edu/faculty/nelson/740%20-%20Sally%20Wengrover.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I changed my mind about Key and Mann because of their historical geography. Much of ward 3 sits on top of a huge munitions dump created by the US Army at the turn of the century. Thanks to AU and the US Army, the exclusive neighborhoods of Palisades and Spring Valley are sitting on dangerous and contaminated soil. The residents there want to keep this fact hush-hush because of property values. I think I'll stay east and south of the park.......If you don't believe read for yourself....

http://www.publicpolicy.umd.edu/faculty/nelson/740%20-%20Sally%20Wengrover.pdf

How many threads are you going to post this on?