What do you think of Joyce Meyer and other super-wealthy ministers?
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Anonymous
There is a difference between being broke and being super wealthy with a private jet and 4 million dollar homes like Joyce Meyer. |
Anonymous
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We're talking about two different things here.
There are preachers, who live like paupers, and there are entertainers like Joyce Meyer, who lives like a celebrity because she is one. You might as well send $100 to the Khardashians. |
Anonymous
Not according to the Bible. Though there are many sects that (mistakenly) preach that. |
Anonymous
You should read the Bible some time. Mark 10:17-22. You cannot be a follower of Christ on easy terms. You cannot serve God and Mammon. Eventually you have to make a choice. |
Anonymous
You are not to WORSHIP money, not forgo money. And whomever says you cannot be wealthy and be a Christian??? That is crazy. Study is Spirit and in Truth. |
Anonymous
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Curious have any of you actually listened to Joyce or Joel or you just don't like that they are wealthy?
I am not so into either one, but have read and seen enough of them to wonder what exactly it is you object to in their messages. I have seen Joyce do a whole week on prayer or hearing from the Holy Spirit, what is the issue with that? |
Anonymous
| Can someone point me to some verses where it is encouraged to be personally financially wealthy and pocket as much as you can? |
Anonymous
I wondered this too. I'm not a follower of hers, don't know the details of her "ministry," and have never sent a dollar to a preacher of any kind. But I've listened casually to her programs in the early morning, found them cheerful and somewhat uplifting, and I haven't heard anything that struck me as greedy or as deceptive. She's not selling prayers, she's not promising divine results, and she's not begging about need or using beggar-like images (starving children abroad, etc.). It seems to me she has far less to answer for than the likes of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or Oral Roberts. (Starting to feel old now, here ....) As a PP said, she's an entertainer. She's living like one, working like one, and reaping a living like one. She's selling a product (her books, tapes, live shows, what have you) to people who get something out of it. Not so different from other forms of secular entertainment (albums, DVD's, big-production concerts). It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it doesn't strike me as dishonest. Are people condemning her just because she's wealthy? And not living like a Franciscan, or like Mother Teresa? Some brands of faith call on their practitioners to make material sacrifices; others, not so much. I don't know anything about Osteen or anyone else. Really not my thing. |
Anonymous
I do read the Bible and the verses you refer to are not saying you cannot be wealthy and still be a "real" Christian. Not serving mammon has to do with sowing to our flesh and not operating in the spirit. We are called to die to the flesh every day. But that is not just about "things", it is about how we see God, treat people, it is our love walk, etc You need to understand that God does not want us to worship anything but Him. So it is the worship of things, putting things before Him that is the issue. You can live God and put him first and legitimately gain wealth. For me, this whole conversation is less about money and more about how we see God. Personally, I get frustrated with that old school, incorrect, idea that we are supposed to be broke, sick, and miserable just waiting to get to Heaven. We will have trials, but Jesus came and OVERcame the world. His word said that what he did we should be doing and MORE. If we are to be set apart from the world how can we do it if our lives look like the world ... Miserable I don't mean money, but our joy, our walk, our relationship with the Father. sigh |
Anonymous
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A man cannot serve 2 masters, either he will love one and hate the other.
You cannot serve God and money. Wealth will distance you from your flock, and it will distort your values. Most ministers already believe that 20% of the people donate 80% of the funds so therefore concentrate on the 20%. But Jesus never preached that. I think Mother Theresa had a balance of wealth without loving money, no that she is an example that the wealthy ministers could follow. Many people stop going to church because they cannot afford to tithe or the activity fees |
Anonymous
Is tithing or giving activity fees a requirement for Christian churches? Do they keep track of how much you give? How much transparency is there? Raised Muslim, we were required to pay "zakat" - a charitable percentage of your income. But this did not have to be to any mosque or imam, and it was up to each person or family to be accountable only to god. Mosques were funded strictly on a volunteer basis, of fundraisers. No one had to pay anything, and no one was pressured into paying anything. How is it structured for most Christian branches and churches? |
Anonymous
I used to listen to Joyce and TD. I have also attended their seminars. And then I started to see with my own eyes and really listen. They are very much cultish. It really is all about money. Lord, when it is time for giving, they separate people out by how much you give. It starts out with "for those who can give a thousand dollars today, stand in this line and come on down". Then five-hundred dollars. Heck, by the time they got to me with my little 20 dollar bill (broke and unemployed at the time), they were simply passing the plate around. Of course, those with the big bucks walked down to the aisle so that everyone could see who was able to give the most. I also know of a local mega church in Maryland (originally in DC) that had people sign over the deeds to their home to the church. These parishoners were elderly people. I was a member of another church, and I think it was at this point that I started reading and thinking for myself. A woman with two children who had been a member of the church for a couple of years lost her job. She asked the church for help to provide rent and food for her children, and I personally heard this well-regarded minister ask her about her tithing. He turned to his co-pastor of the church and said check out her tithing history and determine how much she was tithing. He said, we (the church) is successful because we run it like a business. To this day, many years out, I still dont see how that was relevant to a child of God in need. Joyce, Creflo, Joel, and the likes are all about the Benjamin. Yours! |
Anonymous
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"I also know of a local mega church in Maryland (originally in DC) that had people sign over the deeds to their home to the church. These parishoners were elderly people. I was a member of another church, and I think it was at this point that I started reading and thinking for myself. A woman with two children who had been a member of the church for a couple of years lost her job. She asked the church for help to provide rent and food for her children, and I personally heard this well-regarded minister ask her about her tithing. He turned to his co-pastor of the church and said check out her tithing history and determine how much she was tithing. He said, we (the church) is successful because we run it like a business. To this day, many years out, I still dont see how that was relevant to a child of God in need."
I have seen this kind of penny pinching in the Catholic Church. |
Anonymous
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http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/25/transp...%80%9d-and-ministry/
Joyce has five houses under her ministries name. Living in those homes are her grown children. The minstry paid for the houses and the upkeep. Being a TV evangelist is very profitable and most of your expenditures are tax-exempt. |
Anonymous
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God does not want us to be poor. You can be wealthy and not "serve" mammon. There are several scriptures that support the notion that God definitely does NOT want us poor. There is a biblical prosperity that few understand and because they don't understand it, they ridicule it.
Here are some scriptures that show us that God does not want us to be poor. Ecclesiastes 5:19 Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God. Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. Deuteronomy 8:18 …Remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the ability to produce wealth. Deuteronomy 30:8-10 And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today. “Then the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul. Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. 1 Corinthians 9:10-11 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops. If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? Luke 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return Genesis 39:3 Now his master saw that the Lord was with him and how the Lord caused all that he did to prosper in his hand. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed. Philippians 4:15-17 And you yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the first preaching of the gospel, after I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you alone; for even in Thessalonica you send a gift more than once for my needs. Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit which increases to your account. |