Had an epidural with GW midwives, wondering if they will take me back for #2

[Anonymous]

OP, I know a whole bunch of people who got epidurals for their first births with the GW Midwives (then called Wisdom) and went on to see them for a second pregnancy. Some were encouraged by the midwives to get an epidural. But if you are no longer committed to natural childbirth (I can't blame you after your first experience!), then it's definitely better to go with another practice, because the midwives ask that their "be committed to natural childbirth." That doesn't mean that they wouldn't support your getting another epidural if the conditions came about where you needed one, just that their mindset is to avoid one if it's possible.

I have heard wonderful things about Dr. Tham-Metz at GW. You might try seeing her for an appointment to see how it goes.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who doesn't understand (appreciate?) the anti-OB mindset. My OB is very pro-natural childbirth and last appointment told me that her job, other than ensuring a healthy mom and baby, is to ensure I don't end up with a C-Section.

With the midwives, they often don't educate their patients about the realities of pregnancy complications. When I listen to midwife patients (I'm in a childbirth class), I often can't believe how innocent they are. I'd rather, personally, have a provider who is realistic to the risks than pretends it's all roses and cupcakes and tubs of flowing water. It's often not. And the GW midwives, who often fail to educate on these issues, benefit from the OB swooping in the basically save the day.

Anyone can attempt to have as natural a childbirth as they seek - I think you're going to find more flexible care with some local, younger OBs than with many of the midwives who are very judgmental.

I went to Meet the Midwives and decided against it because I felt like they didn't care about me. I never felt that way with my OB. Everyone is different, and the only sure bet is to be an educated patient.

You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Detroit, and I'm not sure why, but since you are not a patient of the GW midwives, how the F do you know they "often fail" to educate on the issues? I don't even believe you went to meet the midwives, since they spend time at that session talking about when childbirth does NOT go through door number 1, i.e. the normal childbirth. You are welcome to your opinion, but I sure do wish you'd keep the inaccurate depictions of a practice you don't belong to, to yourself. I'm a patient of the GW midwives, and I've found that they are clear as a bell on complications (I have some). They are actually more pro-intervention on some things than my first OB was, so I'm not in complete disagreement with folks who say that some OBs can be less intervention happy than some midwives. But a midwife and an OB specialize in different things. Your rancor toward the midwives is really hard for me to understand, but I am sure you have your reasons. It would be good for you to advise on your opinion only, though, and not try to give factual information that you don't possess.

Because I would say 90% of the pregnant women I know are with wisdom, and their lack of understand of the basic complications shocks me. Perhaps it's because there's always an OB back up, there is a the little luxury of "if something does need to be taken care of, there's someone there".

And i could easily say the same thing about how people respond to OBs here. I'm obviously stating my opinion and experience. I don't know anything else about any medical provider. Neither does anyone else. And yes, I met with the midwives (prior to getting pregnant). I was not a good "candidate" because I was open about my belief that the worst thing in the world isn't a C Section (not that I want one, but I understand there are reasons when they are appropriate and save lives).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that its too bad more midwives aren't willing to just HELP women get through birth, whichever way they need to get through it. Would I love to have a midwife because of their extensive experience, special attention and knowledge of positioning etc? Of course! But am I willing to COMMIT to a natural childbirth (after experiencing an extremely painful 20 hour labor that was made bearable by an epidural) and then feeling like a failure? Absolutely not.

Why can't a midwife just say, "we are going to try and assure that you have the birth you want and if that means an epi then lovely!" Instead of "kind of making fun of you for begging for it" after the fact, as one PP said. This is why the movement gets a bad rap.

I posted earlier, but the MCA midwives are like this. They will do everything they can to minimize intervention, will educate you about the drawbacks of epidurals, and still support you if you choose one and recommend them in cases in which they're indicated.

I think people are confusing the issues here: the OP doesn't want to be judged for choosing an epidural during a long, complicated labor. She shouldn't be. You can be as committed as they come to unmedicated labor and still have a labor in which medication is, in fact, indicated. And if it is, you shouldn't be judged for that.

It's not that hard.

And the GW midwives don't judge you for that. Jeez. They're not judgey at all! A lot of people say Whitney is, but I don't even think she is as judgey as she seems. She's just driven by a set of ideals that frankly, don't get a lot of respect among a lot of medical professionals. She's got a particular point of view. But even she would recommend an epidural for a labor like OP's, or at least extend it as an option.

[Anonymous]

I had an epidural and pitocin after 27 hours of labor that was not progressing and I started to get a fever for my first birth. I was with MCA at the time. I emailed Whitney about my first labor and explained why I wanted to try again and was hopeful for a natural birth when pregnant with my second child. She recommended a doula and was always 100% supportive about coming to the practice. I never felt judged by her or any of the other midwives at all for my prior birth experience. I had my second child with Whitney with no epi and it was a 4 hour labor-totally different experience and she was great the entire time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who doesn't understand (appreciate?) the anti-OB mindset. My OB is very pro-natural childbirth and last appointment told me that her job, other than ensuring a healthy mom and baby, is to ensure I don't end up with a C-Section.

With the midwives, they often don't educate their patients about the realities of pregnancy complications. When I listen to midwife patients (I'm in a childbirth class), I often can't believe how innocent they are. I'd rather, personally, have a provider who is realistic to the risks than pretends it's all roses and cupcakes and tubs of flowing water. It's often not. And the GW midwives, who often fail to educate on these issues, benefit from the OB swooping in the basically save the day.

Anyone can attempt to have as natural a childbirth as they seek - I think you're going to find more flexible care with some local, younger OBs than with many of the midwives who are very judgmental.

I went to Meet the Midwives and decided against it because I felt like they didn't care about me. I never felt that way with my OB. Everyone is different, and the only sure bet is to be an educated patient.

You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Detroit, and I'm not sure why, but since you are not a patient of the GW midwives, how the F do you know they "often fail" to educate on the issues? I don't even believe you went to meet the midwives, since they spend time at that session talking about when childbirth does NOT go through door number 1, i.e. the normal childbirth. You are welcome to your opinion, but I sure do wish you'd keep the inaccurate depictions of a practice you don't belong to, to yourself. I'm a patient of the GW midwives, and I've found that they are clear as a bell on complications (I have some). They are actually more pro-intervention on some things than my first OB was, so I'm not in complete disagreement with folks who say that some OBs can be less intervention happy than some midwives. But a midwife and an OB specialize in different things. Your rancor toward the midwives is really hard for me to understand, but I am sure you have your reasons. It would be good for you to advise on your opinion only, though, and not try to give factual information that you don't possess.

Because I would say 90% of the pregnant women I know are with wisdom, and their lack of understand of the basic complications shocks me. Perhaps it's because there's always an OB back up, there is a the little luxury of "if something does need to be taken care of, there's someone there".

And i could easily say the same thing about how people respond to OBs here. I'm obviously stating my opinion and experience. I don't know anything else about any medical provider. Neither does anyone else. And yes, I met with the midwives (prior to getting pregnant). I was not a good "candidate" because I was open about my belief that the worst thing in the world isn't a C Section (not that I want one, but I understand there are reasons when they are appropriate and save lives).

The "basic complications" meaning what? Do you mean "what can commonly happen" or "the complications they have, which are run-of-the-mill"? It sounds like you mean the former, in which case I wonder why you think women necessarily need to become experts in pregnancy complications they don't have. If it's the latter then isn't it the fault of the GW OBs for not doing THEIR job ("swooping in to save the day," which sounds lik eyou meant it as an insult, but is really just a description of the model of care)?

And if "90% of the pregnant women you know are with [GW midwives]," then how do you know the lack of awareness of "basic complications" is a result of midwifery or midwifery at GW, and not of the pregnant woman's personality/curiosity?

[Anonymous]

Is there a big value in being educated in every possible pregnancy complication? Do OBs even offer that education? I feel like a lot of doctors don't encourage you to be informed, even about your own issues. They certainly don't want to sit around and discuss and educate you most of the time. They don't have time - they have to see the next patient, and then the next one!

I also think being educated in everything that can possibly go wrong with a pregnancy and birth just sets you up to be scared. My husband used to date an OB resident, and he knows ALL the things that can go wrong. I don't want him to tell me! A lot of them are rare, don't apply to me, and frankly would just set my anxiety levels higher, which isn't good for anyone.

I don't think it actually helps or prevents complications to be scared of everything. Now that said, I think it's worthwhile to understand that birth is NOT always rainbows coming out of your vajayjay; it's a primal, messy, and unpredictable business. But most of the time, it goes fine if you're healthy from the start and take good care of yourself throughout your pregnancy, and don't start out with any complications. So why scare people?

[Anonymous]

I think the point about age of/relationship with practicioner is one of the best ones made in this thread so far. My least favorite GW midwives are the oldest ones--perhaps it's a coincidence, but they have the worst bedside manners in prenatals. They are least likely to see me as a person and most likely to see me as a category that holds a set of assumptions they must debunk. I crave appts with Sierra who talks to me more personally.

For professionals in general (e.g. medical professionals) it's well known (or should be) that its best to get someone with relatively fresh training who is experienced enough to not be new but not so experienced as to be closed off to new ideas and set in their ways.

[Anonymous]

The GW Midwives expect that their first-time pregnant clients will take a comprehensive natural childbirth class, and any good one will go over the MANY complications that can arise. My Bradley class was 3/4 GW midwives patients. It was really long--I think 12 weeks, 2 hours a week--and in addition to learning things like labor positions and breathing techniques, we spent a lot of time talking about complications that can arise.

In fact, when my water broke about a minute before my daughter came out, there was meconium in it. Laura (GW midwife) told me this and I said, in between pushes "oh, that means that you can't let the umbilical cord pulsate and that the neonatal care unit will need to see the baby right away to suction and make sure sure there aren't any inifections."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The GW Midwives expect that their first-time pregnant clients will take a comprehensive natural childbirth class, and any good one will go over the MANY complications that can arise. My Bradley class was 3/4 GW midwives patients. It was really long--I think 12 weeks, 2 hours a week--and in addition to learning things like labor positions and breathing techniques, we spent a lot of time talking about complications that can arise.

In fact, when my water broke about a minute before my daughter came out, there was meconium in it. Laura (GW midwife) told me this and I said, in between pushes "oh, that means that you can't let the umbilical cord pulsate and that the neonatal care unit will need to see the baby right away to suction and make sure sure there aren't any inifections."

You said all that while pushing, eh? Did Laura give you an A?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who doesn't understand (appreciate?) the anti-OB mindset. My OB is very pro-natural childbirth and last appointment told me that her job, other than ensuring a healthy mom and baby, is to ensure I don't end up with a C-Section.

With the midwives, they often don't educate their patients about the realities of pregnancy complications. When I listen to midwife patients (I'm in a childbirth class), I often can't believe how innocent they are. I'd rather, personally, have a provider who is realistic to the risks than pretends it's all roses and cupcakes and tubs of flowing water. It's often not. And the GW midwives, who often fail to educate on these issues, benefit from the OB swooping in the basically save the day.

Anyone can attempt to have as natural a childbirth as they seek - I think you're going to find more flexible care with some local, younger OBs than with many of the midwives who are very judgmental.

I went to Meet the Midwives and decided against it because I felt like they didn't care about me. I never felt that way with my OB. Everyone is different, and the only sure bet is to be an educated patient.

You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Detroit, and I'm not sure why, but since you are not a patient of the GW midwives, how the F do you know they "often fail" to educate on the issues? I don't even believe you went to meet the midwives, since they spend time at that session talking about when childbirth does NOT go through door number 1, i.e. the normal childbirth. You are welcome to your opinion, but I sure do wish you'd keep the inaccurate depictions of a practice you don't belong to, to yourself. I'm a patient of the GW midwives, and I've found that they are clear as a bell on complications (I have some). They are actually more pro-intervention on some things than my first OB was, so I'm not in complete disagreement with folks who say that some OBs can be less intervention happy than some midwives. But a midwife and an OB specialize in different things. Your rancor toward the midwives is really hard for me to understand, but I am sure you have your reasons. It would be good for you to advise on your opinion only, though, and not try to give factual information that you don't possess.

Because I would say 90% of the pregnant women I know are with wisdom, and their lack of understand of the basic complications shocks me. Perhaps it's because there's always an OB back up, there is a the little luxury of "if something does need to be taken care of, there's someone there".

And i could easily say the same thing about how people respond to OBs here. I'm obviously stating my opinion and experience. I don't know anything else about any medical provider. Neither does anyone else. And yes, I met with the midwives (prior to getting pregnant). I was not a good "candidate" because I was open about my belief that the worst thing in the world isn't a C Section (not that I want one, but I understand there are reasons when they are appropriate and save lives).

Okay, so what you are saying is that your conclusions are based on information provided to you by the 90 percent of your own personal friends, (which of course must be complete, because don't we all relay word for word what a care provider tells or does not tell us, and they would never forget to tell you some tedious detail that their midwives went over...) the wisdom midwives do not inform patients of complications? LOL. What are you doing, grilling your friends about complications to see how their responses measure up against your own, as informed about complications as you are from your OBs?

Your characterization of what the midwives say or why you're not a candidate, does not match reality. I've had complications. I am WITH wisdom. My complications include spiking blood pressure, a cord abnormality, and another issue, plus AMA. They collaborate with their OBs all along. I've seen an MFM to go over my blood pressure, at the recommendation of wisdom. (the MFM said i was fine to continue with midwives). I've had monitoring for my cord issue, and it has been explained VERY well to me. They do not guarantee nobody will ever get a c-section. What they guarantee is that you will get a c-section if you need one, but you will not get an unnecessary one. This is very different from your absurd insistence that you were not a good candidate for their care because you do not see a c section as "the enemy."

You are just sounding sillier and sillier every time you post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GW Midwives expect that their first-time pregnant clients will take a comprehensive natural childbirth class, and any good one will go over the MANY complications that can arise. My Bradley class was 3/4 GW midwives patients. It was really long--I think 12 weeks, 2 hours a week--and in addition to learning things like labor positions and breathing techniques, we spent a lot of time talking about complications that can arise.

In fact, when my water broke about a minute before my daughter came out, there was meconium in it. Laura (GW midwife) told me this and I said, in between pushes "oh, that means that you can't let the umbilical cord pulsate and that the neonatal care unit will need to see the baby right away to suction and make sure sure there aren't any inifections."

You said all that while pushing, eh? Did Laura give you an A?

A+, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who doesn't understand (appreciate?) the anti-OB mindset. My OB is very pro-natural childbirth and last appointment told me that her job, other than ensuring a healthy mom and baby, is to ensure I don't end up with a C-Section.

With the midwives, they often don't educate their patients about the realities of pregnancy complications. When I listen to midwife patients (I'm in a childbirth class), I often can't believe how innocent they are. I'd rather, personally, have a provider who is realistic to the risks than pretends it's all roses and cupcakes and tubs of flowing water. It's often not. And the GW midwives, who often fail to educate on these issues, benefit from the OB swooping in the basically save the day.

Anyone can attempt to have as natural a childbirth as they seek - I think you're going to find more flexible care with some local, younger OBs than with many of the midwives who are very judgmental.

I went to Meet the Midwives and decided against it because I felt like they didn't care about me. I never felt that way with my OB. Everyone is different, and the only sure bet is to be an educated patient.

You have a chip on your shoulder the size of Detroit, and I'm not sure why, but since you are not a patient of the GW midwives, how the F do you know they "often fail" to educate on the issues? I don't even believe you went to meet the midwives, since they spend time at that session talking about when childbirth does NOT go through door number 1, i.e. the normal childbirth. You are welcome to your opinion, but I sure do wish you'd keep the inaccurate depictions of a practice you don't belong to, to yourself. I'm a patient of the GW midwives, and I've found that they are clear as a bell on complications (I have some). They are actually more pro-intervention on some things than my first OB was, so I'm not in complete disagreement with folks who say that some OBs can be less intervention happy than some midwives. But a midwife and an OB specialize in different things. Your rancor toward the midwives is really hard for me to understand, but I am sure you have your reasons. It would be good for you to advise on your opinion only, though, and not try to give factual information that you don't possess.

Because I would say 90% of the pregnant women I know are with wisdom, and their lack of understand of the basic complications shocks me. Perhaps it's because there's always an OB back up, there is a the little luxury of "if something does need to be taken care of, there's someone there".

And i could easily say the same thing about how people respond to OBs here. I'm obviously stating my opinion and experience. I don't know anything else about any medical provider. Neither does anyone else. And yes, I met with the midwives (prior to getting pregnant). I was not a good "candidate" because I was open about my belief that the worst thing in the world isn't a C Section (not that I want one, but I understand there are reasons when they are appropriate and save lives).

Okay, so what you are saying is that your conclusions are based on information provided to you by the 90 percent of your own personal friends, (which of course must be complete, because don't we all relay word for word what a care provider tells or does not tell us, and they would never forget to tell you some tedious detail that their midwives went over...) the wisdom midwives do not inform patients of complications? LOL. What are you doing, grilling your friends about complications to see how their responses measure up against your own, as informed about complications as you are from your OBs?

Your characterization of what the midwives say or why you're not a candidate, does not match reality. I've had complications. I am WITH wisdom. My complications include spiking blood pressure, a cord abnormality, and another issue, plus AMA. They collaborate with their OBs all along. I've seen an MFM to go over my blood pressure, at the recommendation of wisdom. (the MFM said i was fine to continue with midwives). I've had monitoring for my cord issue, and it has been explained VERY well to me. They do not guarantee nobody will ever get a c-section. What they guarantee is that you will get a c-section if you need one, but you will not get an unnecessary one. This is very different from your absurd insistence that you were not a good candidate for their care because you do not see a c section as "the enemy."

You are just sounding sillier and sillier every time you post!

You are talking with someone who's never given birth and yet thinks she knows everything, PP. She doesn't know anything. Of course she sounds silly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who doesn't understand (appreciate?) the anti-OB mindset. My OB is very pro-natural childbirth and last appointment told me that her job, other than ensuring a healthy mom and baby, is to ensure I don't end up with a C-Section.

With the midwives, they often don't educate their patients about the realities of pregnancy complications. When I listen to midwife patients (I'm in a childbirth class), I often can't believe how innocent they are. I'd rather, personally, have a provider who is realistic to the risks than pretends it's all roses and cupcakes and tubs of flowing water. It's often not. And the GW midwives, who often fail to educate on these issues, benefit from the OB swooping in the basically save the day.

Anyone can attempt to have as natural a childbirth as they seek - I think you're going to find more flexible care with some local, younger OBs than with many of the midwives who are very judgmental.

I went to Meet the Midwives and decided against it because I felt like they didn't care about me. I never felt that way with my OB. Everyone is different, and the only sure bet is to be an educated patient.

This is so true. I don't know if it's specific to the GW midwives, but it is true for many people who are invested in natural birth. Maybe the PPs who argue that it is not desirable to be too educated about possible problems because it will unnecessarily scare you have a point, but it gets obnoxious when this ignorance drives people to dismiss other approaches to childbirth as wrong and do not appreciate the level of safety we have today thanks to knowledge of OBs and the possibility of interventions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that its too bad more midwives aren't willing to just HELP women get through birth, whichever way they need to get through it. Would I love to have a midwife because of their extensive experience, special attention and knowledge of positioning etc? Of course! But am I willing to COMMIT to a natural childbirth (after experiencing an extremely painful 20 hour labor that was made bearable by an epidural) and then feeling like a failure? Absolutely not.

Why can't a midwife just say, "we are going to try and assure that you have the birth you want and if that means an epi then lovely!" Instead of "kind of making fun of you for begging for it" after the fact, as one PP said. This is why the movement gets a bad rap.

I posted earlier, but the MCA midwives are like this. They will do everything they can to minimize intervention, will educate you about the drawbacks of epidurals, and still support you if you choose one and recommend them in cases in which they're indicated.

I think people are confusing the issues here: the OP doesn't want to be judged for choosing an epidural during a long, complicated labor. She shouldn't be. You can be as committed as they come to unmedicated labor and still have a labor in which medication is, in fact, indicated. And if it is, you shouldn't be judged for that.

It's not that hard.

And the GW midwives don't judge you for that. Jeez. They're not judgey at all! A lot of people say Whitney is, but I don't even think she is as judgey as she seems. She's just driven by a set of ideals that frankly, don't get a lot of respect among a lot of medical professionals. She's got a particular point of view. But even she would recommend an epidural for a labor like OP's, or at least extend it as an option.

Except that a doula posted earlier in this thread that some of the GW midwives *do* in fact, judge women who get epidurals. And another poster wrote that one of the midwives jokingly chided a friend who'd ended up with an epidural. I don't know if Whitney in particular is one of them, but multiple people posting that they've either witnessed or heard about some judgment around epidurals coming from *some of* the GW midwives indicates that it does happen.

I don't think the MCA midwives walk on water or anything, I just haven't detected a whiff of judgment about this topic in particular from any of them. People on this board act sometimes as if the GW midwives are the only ones out there, and they're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that its too bad more midwives aren't willing to just HELP women get through birth, whichever way they need to get through it. Would I love to have a midwife because of their extensive experience, special attention and knowledge of positioning etc? Of course! But am I willing to COMMIT to a natural childbirth (after experiencing an extremely painful 20 hour labor that was made bearable by an epidural) and then feeling like a failure? Absolutely not.

Why can't a midwife just say, "we are going to try and assure that you have the birth you want and if that means an epi then lovely!" Instead of "kind of making fun of you for begging for it" after the fact, as one PP said. This is why the movement gets a bad rap.

I posted earlier, but the MCA midwives are like this. They will do everything they can to minimize intervention, will educate you about the drawbacks of epidurals, and still support you if you choose one and recommend them in cases in which they're indicated.

I think people are confusing the issues here: the OP doesn't want to be judged for choosing an epidural during a long, complicated labor. She shouldn't be. You can be as committed as they come to unmedicated labor and still have a labor in which medication is, in fact, indicated. And if it is, you shouldn't be judged for that.

It's not that hard.

And the GW midwives don't judge you for that. Jeez. They're not judgey at all! A lot of people say Whitney is, but I don't even think she is as judgey as she seems. She's just driven by a set of ideals that frankly, don't get a lot of respect among a lot of medical professionals. She's got a particular point of view. But even she would recommend an epidural for a labor like OP's, or at least extend it as an option.

Except that a doula posted earlier in this thread that some of the GW midwives *do* in fact, judge women who get epidurals. And another poster wrote that one of the midwives jokingly chided a friend who'd ended up with an epidural. I don't know if Whitney in particular is one of them, but multiple people posting that they've either witnessed or heard about some judgment around epidurals coming from *some of* the GW midwives indicates that it does happen.

I don't think the MCA midwives walk on water or anything, I just haven't detected a whiff of judgment about this topic in particular from any of them. People on this board act sometimes as if the GW midwives are the only ones out there, and they're not.

I have heard wonderful things about the MCA MWs - and have heard that they are MUCH more epi-friendly.

I personally (delivered with GW MWs) don't understand why you would see the GW MWs unless you were at least 95% committed to what they preach. They make it very clear that that is their expectation and they won't allow a lot of deviation from the way they want things done. I tell my friends that going with the GW MWs is "Whitney's way or the highway." I am 100% committed to that and okay with Whitney, so it worked out really well for me. But there ARE other options. If you aren't sure GW is for you, then don't go there... save that space for someone who is completely on board. I truly don't get it.