Seeking Phonics, Singapore Math, and Recess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for 9:35- how do you go about figuring out the quality of teachers at a particular school? I totally agree with you but have pretty much concluded that there's no way to really judge until the child enrolls. Especially for the early grades, number of degrees or years of experience doesn't necessarily translate into an effective teacher.

There are some rough guides. GPA and recommendations from student teaching year. Certificate and re-certification help a lot. Energy is important. Planning ahead, and the ability to plan. Classroom management skills matter, that is can that teacher get the kids to listen and stay on task.

I spend a ton for my DS in a nice private school in the area. But I must admit that the public schools get the better teachers because of the huge difference in pay and benefits. I know this because (step) DS is in public school and I have seen them in action. Large classes, but good teachers, for the most part.

Private schools can't afford that. There is a ton of nepotism in hiring and it is always, so and so's mom who used to teach would like to work here next year and we have an opening....

[Anonymous]

"IMHO, you might consider whether there are professional educators at some of these schools who know more than you do about which programs are best."

Yes, don't try and hurt your pretty little brain figuring out tricky things like how to educate your own child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"IMHO, you might consider whether there are professional educators at some of these schools who know more than you do about which programs are best."

Yes, don't try and hurt your pretty little brain figuring out tricky things like how to educate your own child.

Um, home schoolers have quite a bit of success.
The sad thing is that this is not rocket science or brain surgery, it can be done at the kitchen table.

[Anonymous]

I just came across these two interesting articles on the topic of Singapore Math today. I didn't know that Montgomery County Public Schools had a brief experiment with Singapore in the early 2000's. http://educationnext.org/miracle-math/

Also, the NYT had an article on the curriculum in 2010 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/education/01math.html?ref=scarsdale&_r=0

[Anonymous]

"The Singapore Math manuals were another problem: they provided very little guidance on how to teach a particular lesson—because they are written for teachers who, for the most part, have a deeper understanding of mathematics than most U.S. teachers do."


Exactly. Here in the US we have "professional educators", not mathematicians. How are you supposed to get a child where he/she needs to go when you haven't even been there yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like our school... Homeschool!

Ha! That sound like my afterschooling. I send to public K and teach my son after school and on the weekends with pure Phonics (he entered K reading at a second grade level, we are almost done with all the phonemes), Singapore Math, and All About Spelling. Good luck finding pure phonics, Singapore Math, and recess. I tried but couldn't find a private school that offered it.

My goodness, lady. Give your kid a break. Poor thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like our school... Homeschool!

Ha! That sound like my afterschooling. I send to public K and teach my son after school and on the weekends with pure Phonics (he entered K reading at a second grade level, we are almost done with all the phonemes), Singapore Math, and All About Spelling. Good luck finding pure phonics, Singapore Math, and recess. I tried but couldn't find a private school that offered it.

My goodness, lady. Give your kid a break. Poor thing.

No, the schools need to give the kid a break and teach well and efficiently so that the parents don't have to redo the whole darn thing a t night. So many kids are being double schooled and the systems take full credit for the good outcomes when in reality it is parents like this one who have to work the kids later on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"The Singapore Math manuals were another problem: they provided very little guidance on how to teach a particular lesson—because they are written for teachers who, for the most part, have a deeper understanding of mathematics than most U.S. teachers do."


Exactly. Here in the US we have "professional educators", not mathematicians. How are you supposed to get a child where he/she needs to go when you haven't even been there yourself?

There is a possibility of using a combined math major and teacher with a certificate. MCPS is hiring them in large numbers.
That said, if a teacher has a college degree and can't teach K-4 math from Singapore without a manual, I feel sorry for that teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like our school... Homeschool!

Ha! That sound like my afterschooling. I send to public K and teach my son after school and on the weekends with pure Phonics (he entered K reading at a second grade level, we are almost done with all the phonemes), Singapore Math, and All About Spelling. Good luck finding pure phonics, Singapore Math, and recess. I tried but couldn't find a private school that offered it.

My goodness, lady. Give your kid a break. Poor thing.

No, the schools need to give the kid a break and teach well and efficiently so that the parents don't have to redo the whole darn thing a t night. So many kids are being double schooled and the systems take full credit for the good outcomes when in reality it is parents like this one who have to work the kids later on.

Absolutely correct, plenty of kids are being double schooled. In kindergarten my son is taught sight words (which promotes guessing instead of learning phonemes) and reading strategies like looking at the pictures on a page and guessing words, Everyday Math, and invented spelling. While many kids can overcome this horrific curriculum I am not taking any chances with my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like our school... Homeschool!

Ha! That sound like my afterschooling. I send to public K and teach my son after school and on the weekends with pure Phonics (he entered K reading at a second grade level, we are almost done with all the phonemes), Singapore Math, and All About Spelling. Good luck finding pure phonics, Singapore Math, and recess. I tried but couldn't find a private school that offered it.

My goodness, lady. Give your kid a break. Poor thing.

No, the schools need to give the kid a break and teach well and efficiently so that the parents don't have to redo the whole darn thing a t night. So many kids are being double schooled and the systems take full credit for the good outcomes when in reality it is parents like this one who have to work the kids later on.

Absolutely correct, plenty of kids are being double schooled. In kindergarten my son is taught sight words (which promotes guessing instead of learning phonemes) and reading strategies like looking at the pictures on a page and guessing words, Everyday Math, and invented spelling. While many kids can overcome this horrific curriculum I am not taking any chances with my kids.

ITA.

[Anonymous]

After schooling moms, what made you choose this route vs home school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After schooling moms, what made you choose this route vs home school?

I need to work. We could perhaps live on one salary day-to-day, but we would not be able to save enough for retirement, college, vacations, etc. There are also benefits to sending a child to school. My son likes going to school and spending time with his friends. He does art projects, has music time, and is learning how to be part of a community. Right now afterschooling works because he is in early elementary school. Additionally, both DH and I work in public schools so we have approximately 180 days off each year, so plenty of days to work with our kids. Our plan is that we might homeschool for grades 5-7 or 6-8 or pay for private school for those years. DH teaches in public middle school and is adamant that private school or homeschooling is the way to go for those grades.

[Anonymous]

pp I could have written your response. I agree that MS will be tricky. I almost think that MS years are the only ones that private school is worth while.
I feel that after schooling accounts for 40% of what my kids know in math and about 25% of what they know I reading. I never worry about what math level they are in at school since I have my own school at home. Unfortunately I don't listen to too much of what the teachers have to say unless I trust them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies. I wanted to respond to the question about why I would like a pure phonics introduction, not whole language, or a hybrid curriculum. The answer is that research supports what Joyce Watson refers to as synthetic phonics as the best practice for teaching my DS to read. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/02/20688/52449

Even though the information about best practices is known, surprisingly few teachers are taught these methods in their education programs. I highly suggest reading "The Good School" by Peg Tyre. http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-School-Parents-Education/dp/B0099SALV2

The developmental need for unstructured outdoor play time is also supported by research and discussed in Peg Tyre's book. As a mother I just knew about this one, but her book backed-up what I already knew.

I have been researching area schools (as best I can) for a while and have only found the type language and possibly the math that I am looking for at Primary Day.

There are other important facets of education, however, and the play based early experience is important as well. If there was a school that mingled Grace's warm environment, outdoor time, music, and play based early learning with Primary Day's phono visual curriculum and used Singapore Math, I think that the administrators wouldn't be able to handle the flood of applicants.

Appreciate the Beauvoir mom taking time to write such a detailed response. We don't have any sort of "hook" so I doubt that it is a possibility. Sounds like a lovely place.

In the end I realize that no school is perfection and that my job is to do due diligence and then let go.... and supplement!

Yes. If there was any school with an intelligent, evidence-based approach to education, they wouldn't be able to handle the flood of applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"The Singapore Math manuals were another problem: they provided very little guidance on how to teach a particular lesson—because they are written for teachers who, for the most part, have a deeper understanding of mathematics than most U.S. teachers do."


Exactly. Here in the US we have "professional educators", not mathematicians. How are you supposed to get a child where he/she needs to go when you haven't even been there yourself?

For anybody familiar with Singapore Math, the idea that educators can't understand it is much more disturbing than the ridiculous curricula that schools in our area embrace. If the teachers are that stunned, the problem is the teachers.