Seeking Phonics, Singapore Math, and Recess

[Anonymous]

You got me curious about reading levels in Asia. It seems a comparison is not as easy as you suggest. Interesting.

"Learning to Read in Japan" (1989)
https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/17512/ctrstreadtechrepv01989i00449_opt.pdf

Since hiragana is a syllabic language and, with only a few exceptions, each letter corresponds to exactly
one syllable, while English is a phonemic language and most letters have multiple pronunciations, it is
no surprise that Japanese children begin learning to read at an earlier age than do American children.
A 1969 survey of Japanese preschool children (Early Childhood Association of Japan, 1979)
determined that 69% of 4-year-old children and 91% of 5-year-olds could read their own name and
32% of 4-year-olds and 76% of 5-year-olds could write their own name in hiragana. Muraishi (1972),
testing over 2,000 4- and 5-year-old children, found that halfway through the kindergarten year 34% of
4-year-olds and 63% of 5-year-olds could read 60 or more of the 71 letters. In a retest, just before
entrance into first grade, 88% of the 5-year-olds could read 60 or more letters. In a smaller but more
recent study, Muto (1987), testing 60 3- to 6-year-olds, found that 20% of 3-year-olds could read some
words and there was a rapid increase in reading hiragana by age 4, with performance above 90% by age
5. Uchida (1987) found that Japanese 5-year-olds could read a 64-word poem with natural intonation
with only one or two errors. Tests of American kindergarten and first-grade children, by contrast,
indicate that while 5- and 6-year-olds can identify letters, few are able to read connected text before
receiving instruction in first grade (Durkin, 1966; Mason & Dunning, 1986).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Primary Day School. Not sure about number of recesses though.

Second that about Primary Day; plenty of playtime (2 recesses + PE) and very strong curriculum in reading and math. Not for every child though, it is expected that your child will be reading in their prek year.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I find this astonishing. The expectation that children be able to read at this age flies in the face of most accepted thinking by education academics. I actually find it a little hard to believe that this is an expectation from any decent school (although I can certainly understand many parents pushing for it).

Your view (I am not the previous poster) is most certainly a Western/American one. In Asia, kids are all reading at some speed or another, by 4, and the better ones reading at least just words at about 3.5. Obviously this means that children of that age CAN do it, but it is this classic American/Western style of holding kids back that makes this sound so astonishing. Offtopic: Kids in Asia btw are also potty trained before 2. It is very much a western thing to keep a diaper on at that age (and beyond. Yuck).

I don't know if it holding kids back or not pushing them. BTW - when I was in Beijing about 10 years ago, none of the babies I came into contact with wore diapers; they were bare bottomed. But then again every middle class family I visited with also had full-time help of at least one. I would hesitate to also generalize to ALL ikds in Asia. In China there is still a lot of illiteracy with characters especially in the rural areas where most of their population still is; maybe they can read words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies. I wanted to respond to the question about why I would like a pure phonics introduction, not whole language, or a hybrid curriculum. The answer is that research supports what Joyce Watson refers to as synthetic phonics as the best practice for teaching my DS to read. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/02/20688/52449

Even though the information about best practices is known, surprisingly few teachers are taught these methods in their education programs. I highly suggest reading "The Good School" by Peg Tyre. http://www.amazon.com/The-Good-School-Parents-Education/dp/B0099SALV2

The developmental need for unstructured outdoor play time is also supported by research and discussed in Peg Tyre's book. As a mother I just knew about this one, but her book backed-up what I already knew.

I have been researching area schools (as best I can) for a while and have only found the type language and possibly the math that I am looking for at Primary Day.

There are other important facets of education, however, and the play based early experience is important as well. If there was a school that mingled Grace's warm environment, outdoor time, music, and play based early learning with Primary Day's phono visual curriculum and used Singapore Math, I think that the administrators wouldn't be able to handle the flood of applicants.

Appreciate the Beauvoir mom taking time to write such a detailed response. We don't have any sort of "hook" so I doubt that it is a possibility. Sounds like a lovely place.

In the end I realize that no school is perfection and that my job is to do due diligence and then let go.... and supplement!

OP, I hear you, you are asking for best practices. For now SM is the best math program. Synthetic phonics is the way to go, and yes, they need recess.

The private schools aren't necessarily interested in doing the best. They are interested in impressing the parents. Most parents don't read and don't know. They just want to know that their brilliant kid is in the highest groups, even if being taught in some archaic way by an un-certified teacher who has a degree in art, but changed her or his mind and decided to teach instead.

[Anonymous]

The early years at the British School of Washington might meet your needs, OP. Definitely for the phonics and recess. I think the math is very good compared to other local privates as well.

[Anonymous]

OP, it is sad that with all the private schools in teh DC area, it is unlikely that you will find one that offers what you want.
One factor that you did not ask for is qualified teachers.
Since you seem to want a quality education, look at the quality of the teachers in addition to the curriculum.
More and more evidence points to teacher quality and sadly, many private schools don't have them.
I hope you won't make the mistake of confusing a nice pleasant atmosphere with quality.

[Anonymous]

0935 The importance of excellent teachers is a key point. DH and I were discussing this last night. I do realize that ideal curriculum, if poorly implemented is problematic. Highly intelligent very verbal and caring teachers are decidedly what students, especially in the young years need. I would love to see a primary school that recruited and supported the best and brightest educators and also implemented best curriculum practices. If you know of such a school or have information about particularly outstanding teachers please share! Thanks, OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:0935 The importance of excellent teachers is a key point. DH and I were discussing this last night. I do realize that ideal curriculum, if poorly implemented is problematic. Highly intelligent very verbal and caring teachers are decidedly what students, especially in the young years need. I would love to see a primary school that recruited and supported the best and brightest educators and also implemented best curriculum practices. If you know of such a school or have information about particularly outstanding teachers please share! Thanks, OP

NP here. OP, part of the problem I'm having with your posts is that you are defining these three parameters (Seeking Phonics, Singapore Math, and recess) as mandated best-practices, and then asking for a school that has all three. I doubt you'll get much disagreement on the importance of recess, nor have much trouble finding schools with recess. But I know for a fact that many smart educators would disagree with you that Seeking Phonics and Singapore Math are clearly the best way to teach those subjects. And even among those who might agree with your assessment of Seeking Phonics and Singapore Math, most of them would say the quality of the program is greatly affected by how it is implemented.

I respect your right as a parent to have your own opinions. Maybe you've researched the issue thoroughly, and you believe without a doubt that no other programs besides Seeking Phonics and Singapore Math can be effective. That's certainly your choice. However, if you are so certain and confident in your belief, you may have difficulty finding a school that agrees with you.

IMHO, you might consider whether there are professional educators at some of these schools who know more than you do about which programs are best. If you talk to them about what you want to accomplish for your child, they might be able to help guide you.

Your choice, of course. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:0935 The importance of excellent teachers is a key point. DH and I were discussing this last night. I do realize that ideal curriculum, if poorly implemented is problematic. Highly intelligent very verbal and caring teachers are decidedly what students, especially in the young years need. I would love to see a primary school that recruited and supported the best and brightest educators and also implemented best curriculum practices. If you know of such a school or have information about particularly outstanding teachers please share! Thanks, OP

11:03 again. If what you want is for people to suggest schools that have "recruited and supported the best and brightest educators" and also implemented what those schools consider to be "best curriculum practices," then you likely will be flooded with suggestions. The DC area has many fine schools, and many people here are not shy about touting their favorites. But again, I worry that a stumbling block may be the difference between your imposed definition of "best practices" and the schools' interpretation of that same goal.

[Anonymous]

Question for 9:35- how do you go about figuring out the quality of teachers at a particular school? I totally agree with you but have pretty much concluded that there's no way to really judge until the child enrolls. Especially for the early grades, number of degrees or years of experience doesn't necessarily translate into an effective teacher.

[Anonymous]

It is easy to ask the schools for teacher education levels and years of experience. That isn't perfect information, but a good place to start.

[Anonymous]

Hi 11:03, I am open to conversation about other curriculum and why professional educators have chosen the particular programs that they have for their schools. I would very much welcome that conversation! This is a forum where that could take place. When visiting a school in person, I have to restrain myself because while I am genuinely interested in dialogue on the subject, very specific questions can come across in a way that makes the administrator or teacher feel defensive. There is research that supports my curriculum preferences, but I always want to be open to learning and discussing and am aware that this is a complex issue.

[Anonymous]

Looking for a warm nurturing lower school with small class sizes, phonics based reading approach (not whole word, not balanced literacy), Singapore Math, and 2 recess periods a day. Play based learning and time for open-ended creative and dramatic play in the early years and a fantastic music program are welcome too.

OP the problem may be that you looking for this in a play based school. The Montessori schools tend to follow phonics rather than sight word, singapore style rather than everyday math spiral and have a greater focus on nature but they are not play based. Franklin only goes up to K but they fit your description with the exception of play based.

Its also odd to see the term play based past preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi 11:03, I am open to conversation about other curriculum and why professional educators have chosen the particular programs that they have for their schools. I would very much welcome that conversation! This is a forum where that could take place. When visiting a school in person, I have to restrain myself because while I am genuinely interested in dialogue on the subject, very specific questions can come across in a way that makes the administrator or teacher feel defensive. There is research that supports my curriculum preferences, but I always want to be open to learning and discussing and am aware that this is a complex issue.

I think is all in how you approach the admin or teacher. At DC's school, we had those sorts of conversations before applying and I never found the educators to feel defensive - they seemed eager to have the conversation. Maybe I was lucky - I have an education background, so perhaps I could "talk the talk", but I'm not sure it was anything more than my expressed interest in understanding the school's curriculum, how it is implemented, and why the school made the choices it made. It has been a good fit for DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi 11:03, I am open to conversation about other curriculum and why professional educators have chosen the particular programs that they have for their schools. I would very much welcome that conversation! This is a forum where that could take place. When visiting a school in person, I have to restrain myself because while I am genuinely interested in dialogue on the subject, very specific questions can come across in a way that makes the administrator or teacher feel defensive. There is research that supports my curriculum preferences, but I always want to be open to learning and discussing and am aware that this is a complex issue.

I think it is all in how you approach the admin or teacher. At DC's school, we had those sorts of conversations before applying and I never found the educators to feel defensive - they seemed eager to have the conversation. Maybe I was lucky - I have an education background, so perhaps I could "talk the talk", but I'm not sure it was anything more than my expressed interest in understanding the school's curriculum, how it is implemented, and why the school made the choices it made. It has been a good fit for DC!

Sorry...had to fix my typo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0935 The importance of excellent teachers is a key point. DH and I were discussing this last night. I do realize that ideal curriculum, if poorly implemented is problematic. Highly intelligent very verbal and caring teachers are decidedly what students, especially in the young years need. I would love to see a primary school that recruited and supported the best and brightest educators and also implemented best curriculum practices. If you know of such a school or have information about particularly outstanding teachers please share! Thanks, OP

11:03 again. If what you want is for people to suggest schools that have "recruited and supported the best and brightest educators" and also implemented what those schools consider to be "best curriculum practices," then you likely will be flooded with suggestions. The DC area has many fine schools, and many people here are not shy about touting their favorites. But again, I worry that a stumbling block may be the difference between your imposed definition of "best practices" and the schools' interpretation of that same goal.

You know what is sad is that they don't always implement what they think is best. I KNOW one school in the area that wants to switch to Singapore Math, but does not have the money to make that switch now. Interestingly, they speak wonders about an inferior curriculum that they regret buying four years ago.
My source came from retired administrator who was there in the meetings. Now she has no problem telling me what went wrong at that school.