Is the Principals office the standard "time out" for a Kindergartner who is not abusive or violent?

[Anonymous]

P.S. If you don;t let her know that her behavior is socially unacceptable, I bet my bottom dollar that the "teasing" from the other kids will eventually sink in and let her know her behavior is socially unacceptable. You don't want her teased? Let her know these are the standards of behavior for a well-behaved 5 year old child and you are expected to adhere to them. period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I guess none of you can understand the concept of asking a question. So you are inserting all kinds of weird assumptions. Actually its all of you who need to calm down.

I did not state that my child should be allowed to disrupt class. I dont feel she should be allowed to do this. So lets get that straight.

I did not state that the teacher should have taken any particular amount of time to deal with her. In fact I know she cant and I have assured her I get that. I said in my OP I disagreed that a person sitting out is necessarily a disruption of learning time. In other schools, people do a time out corner. Its a normal thing to do that takes care of the disruption by letting the person sit it out in a place assigned for that purpose..Apparently pointing out that the principals office does not appear to me the only viable solution is an incomprehensible and inappropriate question to all of you who responded thus far.

I merely asked the question if the principals office is MCPS kindergarten equivelant of the time out room. Apparently not because I have read other posts on here about kids not wanting to participate and being teased or taunted and they were not sent to the principals office.

The principals office is a totally appropriate place for certain behaviors. I was trying to understand why a person who, for example, taunts or teases my child is not addressed as disrupting the class if this taunting and teasing makes my child not want to participate. The teasing was left out of this discussion, but not out of my OP. So I am merely trying to understand the range of offenses that lead a kid to the principals office.

Hardly an odd question.

Its not entirely surprising to me that merely asking a question results in all this nastiness. Sigh. Oh well. None of this nastiness would come out in a face to face conversation, so I guess I should expect all this big entitled talk where anonymity is involved. I just wanted to know something more about the system. And boy, I learned more here than I ever have could elsewhere. So I will be done now. Dont bother responding, I wont be checking back. Go jump on someone else asking a question.

I can 100% guarantee that if you asked me about his foolishness in a face to face conversation, I would provide you with the exact same answer I gave here (PP above). Then again, I'm one of those damn Yankees- we don't waste time with BS.

The "teasing" was the result of her actions where she was distrubing the class.

To answer your question, if your child could not control her behavior, then yes, the principal's office is an option that the school should be able to use.

[Anonymous]

Correction - *this foolishness not "his" foolishness

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with OP here that the responses being given here are largely missing the point. Further in carefully reading OP's message I am not getting a read that anyone is defending anyone. Rather is looks like OP is trying to learn what the approach is. I am shocked to learn there is no time out in the classroom. Is this really true????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to agree with OP here that the responses being given here are largely missing the point. Further in carefully reading OP's message I am not getting a read that anyone is defending anyone. Rather is looks like OP is trying to learn what the approach is. I am shocked to learn there is no time out in the classroom. Is this really true????

Of course there are time outs in the classroom. In this case it had gone past the timeout phase as the child was refusing to move and had already been given time where she was. Also this wasn't a one time thing. OP admits her daughter has also refused to participate in other basic expectations like standing in line. It sounds like after repeated incidents of the child distracting the class and refusing to follow the directions of the teacher, she was sent to the principal's office so the principal could talk to her. it isn't really a time out to be in the principal's office.

[Anonymous]

OP you must chill. You need to accept the fact that if your DD acts up the school will follow its disciplinary track (whether that is a track you like or not). That said, if the principal "yelled" at your DD, I agree that that would be inappropriate. But if your real gripe is that your DD isn't being coddled (as she was at preschool), then you must get over that. Real school is not preschool. Kids that cause trouble or disrupt the class get in trouble.
Unfortunately, until you accept these realities, you will be viewed as a PITA and that won't help your DD.

[Anonymous]

Slightly OT, but I feel I must defend play-based, child-centered preschools . . . My kids went to one, as did many of our friends' kids. I can't imagine any of them being involved in an incident like this in their kindergarten classes. You still have to learn some basic cooperation and classroom behaviors even in a play-based school.

It sounds like OP's daughter has a defiant streak (nothing wrong with not being a pushover but she just needs to learn how/when to express it) and/or was overwhelmed with the new structure and system of school. It doesn't sound to me like the school's response was at all surprising, unexpected, or out of line.

[Anonymous]

OP, in my school ine Prince George's County, they kids have a blue-green-yellow-red card system. They start on blue each day and need to move their card down to green, yellow, red for each serious infraction of the rules. So your daughter would have been told "Mary, you need to get up right now and move to the station or I will need to move your card."

Getting to red would be pretty serious, and means loss of privileges, but kids are sent to the off for very serious offenses such as kitting or being out of control.

I cannot imagine sending a kindergartener to the principal's office for refusing to move to the next center. Doesn't that remind anyone of the Ramona the Pest story? The poor kid was told to "Sit here for the present" and she thought it meant sit here and I'll give you a present" so she stayed stuck to her chair ALL MORNING LONG! Even when her teacher told her to get up and do stuff, she just sat... and her teacher finally asked her what was wrong.... and it all got figured out. First month of kindergarten, it seems like there were some other strategies the teacher could have tried!

[Anonymous]

Wow, alot has happened since I last posted. I figured some of you might need some resolution since you all seemed so stressed.I have in fact never been stressed this entire time. I was just asking a question.

But to summarize, Yes, principal confirmed she yelled at my daughter. And slammed her table. She did so, she said, because when the teacher arrived with her, holding her by the hand, my daughter 'was looking around acting like she wasnt bothered by being brought to me".

She confirmed that she said to my daughter that she had heard she did not want to participate in a reading segment, and the principal said that by the end of her telling her that "she wouldnt have that" my daughter was crying. She further went on to state that after my daughter "realized this was the big time" (as indicated by her crying) and was made to sit and eat her lunch alone in the hallway that "she was in a better place".

My daughter was in fact teased socially about a boy who decided randomly to display affection for her at lunch, which she was embarassed by, and the other kids teased her about as confirmed by her teacher. What teacher didnt know is that one of those students in class has been (because of that incident) muttering under her breath at her that she is embarassing and refusing to sit next to her at reading time.

This is what led to my daughter not wanting to participate in the instance that was then dealt with as it was dealt with.

Not that most of you appear to care about facts or details, but that is where all the important issues reside in life in general. The full details, not just parts.

Thank goodness for me and my daughter, I am a parent who holds her accountable for her actions and also considers the greater context of the situation, This is what adults must do in adult life. Simply judging off the bat without gathering facts is risky business.

Again, all I wanted to know is why a timeout is not standard use instead of principals office for a disruption of this kind (sitting it out) as opposed to yelling or that kind of thing which would of course be impossible to deal with any other way but removal. My daughter would never get away with disruption of any kind under my watch and she knows it. Why? Because I have a real clear system of consequences that is consistent. So, does it make sense a good kid goes bad for no reason

Not having a consistent set of consequences for a kid who fails to participate, which, by the principals admission is commonplace, is problematic. Also, failing to take the few minutes required to actually ask a kid why they dont want to participate is failing to gain information that could be useful in determining an appropriate course of action.

But again, Im talking to the wrong crowd. The montessori director I met with today didnt have any problem understanding what was happening, and thought the response by the principal and teacher was inappropriate, as did my educator friends. So, to each his own I suppose. I take more the middle ground which is: my daughter should not disrupt, but one has to note why she is disrupting and how. That is every parents responsibility. But first they have to be told its happening.

Have a nice day. And calm the heck down everyone! Drink a glass of wine and stop judging and assuming everyone else shares your stress. I feel great now that I know the parameters I am dealing with. Your judgements honestly dont affect the bottom line at all, but I do appreciate you sharing them with me, really, I have learned a lot.

OK who will have the last word here- its your competition!

[Anonymous]

lol you have been misinformed. The contest for most condescending post ended last month!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, alot has happened since I last posted. I figured some of you might need some resolution since you all seemed so stressed.I have in fact never been stressed this entire time. I was just asking a question.

But to summarize, Yes, principal confirmed she yelled at my daughter. And slammed her table. She did so, she said, because when the teacher arrived with her, holding her by the hand, my daughter 'was looking around acting like she wasnt bothered by being brought to me".

She confirmed that she said to my daughter that she had heard she did not want to participate in a reading segment, and the principal said that by the end of her telling her that "she wouldnt have that" my daughter was crying. She further went on to state that after my daughter "realized this was the big time" (as indicated by her crying) and was made to sit and eat her lunch alone in the hallway that "she was in a better place".

My daughter was in fact teased socially about a boy who decided randomly to display affection for her at lunch, which she was embarassed by, and the other kids teased her about as confirmed by her teacher. What teacher didnt know is that one of those students in class has been (because of that incident) muttering under her breath at her that she is embarassing and refusing to sit next to her at reading time.

This is what led to my daughter not wanting to participate in the instance that was then dealt with as it was dealt with.

Not that most of you appear to care about facts or details, but that is where all the important issues reside in life in general. The full details, not just parts.

Thank goodness for me and my daughter, I am a parent who holds her accountable for her actions and also considers the greater context of the situation, This is what adults must do in adult life. Simply judging off the bat without gathering facts is risky business.

Again, all I wanted to know is why a timeout is not standard use instead of principals office for a disruption of this kind (sitting it out) as opposed to yelling or that kind of thing which would of course be impossible to deal with any other way but removal. My daughter would never get away with disruption of any kind under my watch and she knows it. Why? Because I have a real clear system of consequences that is consistent. So, does it make sense a good kid goes bad for no reason

Not having a consistent set of consequences for a kid who fails to participate, which, by the principals admission is commonplace, is problematic. Also, failing to take the few minutes required to actually ask a kid why they dont want to participate is failing to gain information that could be useful in determining an appropriate course of action.

But again, Im talking to the wrong crowd. The montessori director I met with today didnt have any problem understanding what was happening, and thought the response by the principal and teacher was inappropriate, as did my educator friends. So, to each his own I suppose. I take more the middle ground which is: my daughter should not disrupt, but one has to note why she is disrupting and how. That is every parents responsibility. But first they have to be told its happening.

Have a nice day. And calm the heck down everyone! Drink a glass of wine and stop judging and assuming everyone else shares your stress. I feel great now that I know the parameters I am dealing with. Your judgements honestly dont affect the bottom line at all, but I do appreciate you sharing them with me, really, I have learned a lot.

OK who will have the last word here- its your competition!

Your posts are so long. You are more stressed and in need of reassurance than you want to admit. BTW, the value of anonymous feedback is that you will hear the painful truth. Your montessori teachers, educator friends, neighbors and whoever else you have burdened with this endless story don't have the heart to tell you that you are a bit off.

[Anonymous]

now I think you are a troll after that. Principal's deal with all kinds of issues a thousand times bigger than a kindergarten student want doesn't want to go to reading...I doubt that would make her lose her cool and yell.

[Anonymous]

This is about a kindergartener, right? OP, you need to relax. It is a long road ahead and I worry about you making it to the finish line if this is how worked up you become at this early stage. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

LOL!!!

[Anonymous]

Simple answers:

Your child has been disruptive from day one and the teacher was fed up. Believe it or not, teachers do not have time to report every single infraction to you they deal with on a daily basis.

Your "bright" child can and does misbehave. Being bright does not always equal being social savvy or being able to behave appropratiately.

Kids tease. They just do. Your bright, sensitive daughter does it too. She may be of the ilk that can dish it out but not take it. Don't bother saying "no!!! not my sweet snowflake - she would never do that!" They all do it.

It sounds like your kids is having control issues - she wants to control the other kids, she wants to control the teacher, she wants to control the environment.

I think the hardest thing about K for many parents is realizing that their special snowflake actually can't meet the social and institutional demands of school. After all, he/she was reading Harry Potter at their very advanced preschool....