IVF success at or after 40? Who was your RE?

[Anonymous]

But that's my point, you can't "do all things at the same time." Chinese medicine can not be or should not be done simultaneously w IVF meds. It'd be best to do it for a few months prior to an IVF cycle.But the other things can be done along with IVF.

[Anonymous]

But there is SO much to accomplish prior to jumping into an IVF cycle.

I started the IVF process when I was 38, almost 39. I didn't achieve my IVF pregnancy until I was 42. I didn't even start IVF until I was 40.5. It takes time to get the diagnostics and the whole IVF process started.

There is certainly time to go to your RE, even just select the clinic with the right 'feel' for you...get your initial diagnostics done and all your prep work done AND do TCM at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but the statement that was made was that one can start alternative meds before starting an IVF cycle, not that one can start alternative meds before one makes the visit to the RE and gets diagnostic tests done.

[Anonymous]

The acupuncturists also benefit from the information of your diagnostics--the FSH, AMH, antral follicle count, etc. They work with the REs, not against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did of you do PGD? Wondering if this is something I should also consider due to AMA.

No, I talked to multiple clinics and they do not recommend it for AMA only. There is a chance of damaging embryos and given the lower number of high quality eggs with AMA I've been told it's better not to do it.

[Anonymous]

I think it's fine to do chromosomal testing on blastocysts, however, because they are more robust than 8 cell embies.

[Anonymous]

In summary,
Age 40+ do not wait around hoping you wil get lucky with mumbo jumbo or natural conception. Go quickly and get tested. Use that info to decide treatment.

During this time if you are so inclined and it helps you manage the stress, by all means do whatever complementary therapy feels good. Bear in mind, it will help you COPE, not help your fertility directly. And even so, not all studies show that stress harms fertility. Many studies have recently shown the opposite. Life is not as simple as we want it to be. During an immense time of grief last year, I had my best IVF cycle up to that point. I was very stressed. It is random.

My top tip : research who is good with over 40+. Not all clinics are. Trust me. I am now pregnant age 40 with own egg after 3 years of 5 IVF, and being told to move to donor eggs. Join an infertility support group based on Ali Domar's programme. She has proven to double your success rates no matter how long you have been trying.

Finally, wishing you all luck and joy.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with you, PP. You're not making sense.

You said complementary therapy will merely help you COPE not help your fertility directly. You call complementary medicine for fertility "mumbo jumbo." Didn't someone already post a link of a reputable medical journal that researched this and showed how acupuncture can actually improve pregnancy rates? And then you go on to recommend Ali Domar's infertility program which clearly states the opposite of what you assert here: "Participants in this program show significant decreases in physical symptoms of stress and studies suggest a higher pregnancy rate after completing the program. " Ali Domar's program is ALL about complementary medicine including integrative medicine, mind/body treatments, etc...

I'm 45 and 9 months pregnant with my own eggs...after seven rounds of IVF. Getting pregnant at 40 is not a miracle at all. Getting pregnant at 45 is quite challenging. I didn't do it with conventional medicine alone, I did it with the introduction of complementary medicine. So don't knock what you haven't tried.

[Anonymous]

To the 45 year old PP. Firdt..Congratulations!!' I am curious what your highest FSH was(?) And all tests have come back "normal?" 7 IVF's in how many years? Is this your first child? And what is the most eggs transferred? I am most curious about the FSH question! Mine was 31 last month!!!!! I will also be 44 at the end of this month. I have been TTC as a single person for over 4 years now. 5 IVF's and 5 IUI's. All BFN.

To everyone else...please tell me your age....Highest FSH/ at what age and if you DID conceive via ART/natural. Thanks!!!!

[Anonymous]

Old pregnant woman here. lol

It was 7 IVF's from age 41-44. MY FSH fluctuated a bit and I think the highest was 14. But my clinic didn't care about the FSH they said they were more concerned with my AMH, which was concerning but not alarmingly high. I can't say with absolute certainty but it became consistently lower after I tried chinese medicine.

[Anonymous]

'Likewise, once past a certain age, no amount of tickling your Qi is going to increase necessary hormones that have long gone out of production.

For this reason, many doctors recommend that you have at least a basic fertility workup before attempting acupuncture treatment, particularly if you are approaching, or you are over, the age of 40.'
Quote from one of the journals quoted on page 2.

[Anonymous]

40 yr PP here: Unless you know the facts about anyone else's reasons for needing IVF, pls do not comment on whether it is a miracle or not. This is not about comparing.

I would say all babies conceived to those with fertility issues are miracles.

Ali Domar does not use complementary therapies.
She teaches relaxation, yoga and other self-help techniques. She actually reserves judgment on unproven therapies. The main effect of her program seems to be the group support as well as the self-empowerment.  

Obviously if any of the complementary therapies relax you and help you cope, then all good. To date the studies on acupuncture are inconclusive. I just think there are a lot of claims out there and as a vulnerable person facing an uncertain outcome, it is easy to get duped or feel you HAVE TO do this or that. I should declare here that I am a physician and have looked at a lot of the research.

It may seem contradictory that stress does not affect success, and all I am saying is the research again is inconclusive. So don't beat yourself up for stressing. It is normal to be stressed about an uncertain outcome that matters so much, which seems to have a time limit attached.
and distress is even more normal, by which I mean sadness, anger, guilt, anxiety. It can be like a bereavement at times.

But my take on this is that distress (or not being able to relax) stops people from recovering from setbacks and keeping going. It is a subtle difference. Being in Ali's group helps keep you on track and keep the faith via the social support that is vital in any hard endeavour. It is especially good for those who have been TTC for 2+ years.

I wish you luck with your pregnancy.

To the lady asking about FSH: my FSH was always below 10 but my AMH was always very low, indicating a poor response to stimulated IVF, which was borne out because we always had few embryos each cycle. They told us 2 years ago  our overall chances were about 10-15% We also had other medical issues on both sides. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

http://www.iaac.ca/content/real-relationship-between-stress-and-ivf-outcome-alice-d-domar-phd-fall-2011

Interestingly,she concludes stress before a cycle is beneficial whereas during your cycle do all you can to reduce distress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:40 yr PP here: Unless you know the facts about anyone else's reasons for needing IVF, pls do not comment on whether it is a miracle or not. This is not about comparing.

But PP, you don't know about anyone's reasons for needing IVF OR complementary therapy, yet it doesn't seem to stop you from commenting about other people's personal choices and labeling them as "mumbo jumbo."

I would say all babies conceived to those with fertility issues are miracles.

Perhaps so. But statistically and generally speaking, getting pregnant at 40 versus 45 is a big difference. I think this is a no brainer but you seem intent on refuting this until you can win this argument. There's no argument here. All I'm saying is to incorporate other complementary therapies or give alternative therapies a try also. I didn't dis conventional medicine. But you totally dissed complementary therapies by calling them 'mumbo jumbo.' I take objection to that.

Ali Domar does not use complementary therapies.
She teaches relaxation, yoga and other self-help techniques. She actually reserves judgment on unproven therapies. The main effect of her program seems to be the group support as well as the self-empowerment.

PP, all these, yoga, meditation, acupuncture, mind/body relaxation are considered COMPLEMENTARY and/or alternative therapies! Complementary means used in conjunction with conventional therapy, alternative means used in place of conventional therapy. I don't think you realize you recommended a resource that does indeed offer complementary therapy.

Obviously if any of the complementary therapies relax you and help you cope, then all good. To date the studies on acupuncture are inconclusive. I just think there are a lot of claims out there and as a vulnerable person facing an uncertain outcome, it is easy to get duped or feel you HAVE TO do this or that. I should declare here that I am a physician and have looked at a lot of the research.

No, PP. The benefits of acupuncture for fertility are documented in a medical Journal article. It's not easy to get published in a journal article. It doesn't mean you or anyone else MUST do acupuncture but the purpose of medical journal articles is to separate the reputable claims or noteworthy claims from the possible hoaxes...and thereby, educate the patient more.

It may seem contradictory that stress does not affect success, and all I am saying is the research again is inconclusive. So don't beat yourself up for stressing. It is normal to be stressed about an uncertain outcome that matters so much, which seems to have a time limit attached.
and distress is even more normal, by which I mean sadness, anger, guilt, anxiety. It can be like a bereavement at times.

Again, PP, you're wrong on this one and contradicting yourself. You might confuse some women here. Stress does affect fertility for many women. Check this out:
http://www.conceivethepossibility.com/research.html
Also note that in this article which states stress does affect fertility, Ali Domar is quoted not once but a couple of times to support this assertion that you, here, are denying.


But my take on this is that distress (or not being able to relax) stops people from recovering from setbacks and keeping going. It is a subtle difference. Being in Ali's group helps keep you on track and keep the faith via the social support that is vital in any hard endeavour. It is especially good for those who have been TTC for 2+ years.

I wish you luck with your pregnancy.

To the lady asking about FSH: my FSH was always below 10 but my AMH was always very low, indicating a poor response to stimulated IVF, which was borne out because we always had few embryos each cycle. They told us 2 years ago  our overall chances were about 10-15% We also had other medical issues on both sides. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

The studies are confusing and contradictory. Ali Domar has clarified this in her most uptodate statements. The truth is there is no absolute conclusion yet on stress nor on acupuncture. In medicine, it can be like this for many years. The good thing is that the more studies are done, the closer we get to the truth.

http://www.villagefertilitypharmacy.com/stress-and-infertility

I certainly am not judging your choices. I am picking up on some earlier posts suggesting waiting and doing TCM before going to an IVF clinic.

I agree that the term complementary therapies is used loosely. It can mean so many things. That is another reason anything seems to go and there is so little regulation to back or refute claims. Ali Domar's guidance comes from a rigorous appraisal of all the up to date research so we don't have to read it all ourselves.

I am aware that some vulnerable women lose time going to quacks who happily take their money because fertility is big industry and especially in this age group when women are desparate and throw all a lot of money at it.

Life is random. Luck is a big factor in all this. Stress is inevitable. We can only do our best to choose what we believe in and cannot control the rest. Just best not to waste valuable time (which is a precious fertility resource after 40) unless you have been tested as others above have stressed.