Why so much vitriol toward Federal employees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A very important point made by the OP is that many federal workers took significant pay cuts many years ago. They traded high pay for job security and good benefits, and now people who made the opposite trade want to cry foul. I have a lot of job security now as a government lawyer, but eight years ago when I left a big nyc law firm and cut my pay in half, no one wanted my job then.

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

And in this brave new world, no one has job security anymore, whatever choices they made 8 years ago. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Because they come across as spoiled, petulant brats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A very important point made by the OP is that many federal workers took significant pay cuts many years ago. They traded high pay for job security and good benefits, and now people who made the opposite trade want to cry foul. I have a lot of job security now as a government lawyer, but eight years ago when I left a big nyc law firm and cut my pay in half, no one wanted my job then.

How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to argue that Justice Dept attorneys make as much as their counterparts in private practice? How about the doctors and scientists that work at NIH?

What the studies say is that secretarial-type positions and those that are low on the GS scale, earn slightly more than the private-sector average--probably because they're unionized, whereas most similar, private sector jobs aren't. Positions like the ones I've noted above (the ones that require more skill and education) earn significantly *less* than the private sector.

[Anonymous]

Q: Why so much vitriol towards Federal employees?

A: A half-century of vicious Republican propaganda that's been completely unanswered by elected Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A very important point made by the OP is that many federal workers took significant pay cuts many years ago. They traded high pay for job security and good benefits, and now people who made the opposite trade want to cry foul. I have a lot of job security now as a government lawyer, but eight years ago when I left a big nyc law firm and cut my pay in half, no one wanted my job then.

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

And in this brave new world, no one has job security anymore, whatever choices they made 8 years ago. Deal with it.

Yes, we do. We have the United States Constitution, the Administrative Procedure Act, federal regulations, as well as many policies to protect us very well, thank you. Deal with it.

No, apparently you don't have the kind of job security the first quoted poster prizes - your pay just got frozen.

[Anonymous]

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

Stop watching Fox News and you'll get some accurate information. Study after study has shown that most federal workers make significantly LESS than their private sector counterparts. The one exception to this rule is administrative staff, clerical workers, and secretaries - they tend to make somewhat more than their private counterparts.

You are welcome.

[Anonymous]

PP, the myth about federal workers earning more than their private counterparts is addressed nicely in this column. It is myth #1.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/03/AR2010120306348.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, so when posters complain about how entitled Fed employees are acting about this COLA freeze, that means they are jealous?

So when people are critical of entitled behavior of union auto workers, are they jealous of them, too?

Hardly. Call it jealousy if it helps you sleep at night.

That is the most inept analogy I've ever heard. Most of the people posting here are not automotive workers -- some who chose to unionize and some who did not -- with those who did not now insulting unionized auto workers because the unionized workers made a better choice than they did.

No. People posting here are in what we generally refer to as learned professions. Some of us chose to practice our professions within the federal government. The greedy ones opted for the private sector. And right now, it looks like those who opted for the federal government made the better choice. And yes, you're jealous.

But go ahead and continue with your lame analogies if it makes you sleep better at night.

The analogy is fine.

The contention is that posters are because critical of federal workers, therefore they must be jealous. The obvious example that disproves it is auto workers.

Posters frequently criticize auto workers for their salary, the union work rules that make it so hard to get fired, their generous pensions, the fact that the government ensured their employment during this crisis. And yet no one would say we are jealous of them.

It is not inept, it is spot on. If we lived in an area with a lot of auto workers and they ran across an OP complaining about the bailout, I am 100% certain that one of them would have accused the OP of being jealous.

The key difference is that you are not an auto worker, and therefore it sounds absurd to you.

Wow. Is your sentence structure always that good? Or is that just a glimpse into your remarkable talent at composition? We lazy, incompetent, stupid federal employees need to know.

And sorry, sweetie, but your analogy sucks, as do the "facts" on which it is premised, and the fairly gross belief system that it belies. First, I have not found any posts on DCUM ranting about the high-rolling lifestyle of rank-and-file auto workers. Only you seem to have it in for those who have only sweat and risk to sell. And I will concede that neither you, nor most of the posters on the recent threads about federal workers are "jealous" of auto workers. In fact, I would wager than most DCUMers feel sympathy and empathy towards rank-and-file auto workers. You look down your nose at them.

Second, unlike many groups of federal employees, auto workers do not comprise a learned profession; their work is not varied, nor is it reasonably well-paid. On the other hand, many of us who chose to market our skills in the federal sector could have easily marketed them in the private sector: We are doctors, scientists, lawyers, budget analysts, economists, nurses, mathematicians, IT specialists, policy analysts, managers -- the list goes on.

The only thing that distinguishes professional federal workers from those in the private sector is that they chose to work in the federal sector. And when things were good, those of you in the private sector looked down your nose at us and scoffed at our choice. Then, as soon as things went bad, you became angry with us because we did not suffer the same misfortune that you did.

That, my dear, is jealousy. Go choke on it. Along with the outrageous bile you have against those who manufactured your car.

Wow, you are starting to foam at the mouth a bit.

I never said that I dislike auto workers. Re-read my post. I said that posters here are not jealous of them, and you can read any of the auto bailout threads to see that it is true. However, it seems that you are set on proving that you are better than they are, which belies your apparent defense of them.

But none of that matters. What does matter is that your assertion that the critical posters are all jealous is false. I'm sure there are some, but you know that money troubles can't explain all of it. I worked a federal job, and I know what federal workers themselves say. It's not fair to generalize about the entire workforce, but it is an absolute fact that federal workers internally make many of the same criticisms that you read here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A very important point made by the OP is that many federal workers took significant pay cuts many years ago. They traded high pay for job security and good benefits, and now people who made the opposite trade want to cry foul. I have a lot of job security now as a government lawyer, but eight years ago when I left a big nyc law firm and cut my pay in half, no one wanted my job then.

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

And in this brave new world, no one has job security anymore, whatever choices they made 8 years ago. Deal with it.

Yes, we do. We have the United States Constitution, the Administrative Procedure Act, federal regulations, as well as many policies to protect us very well, thank you. Deal with it.

Yes, but I don't think any of that protects pay increases, only cuts. And the government can lay people off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when I interned with the EPA, people (especially the support staff) literally did nothing all day long and ran for the doors at 5pm. It was a joke.

Saw the same thing at another government office. One person literally does maybe one hour of work at most everyday and spends the rest of the time on personal calls, surfing the internet, reading the paper, going to lunch, etc. Another one brought his own tv to work and watches that when he's not chit-chatting on personal calls or on his weekly three to six hour lunches.

I saw the same mess where I interned. In my office, many of the staff members spent the entire afternoon watching soap operas in the break room. There was no desire to do anything, learn anything or achieve anything. I briefly considered applying there after graduation, but 1. the application process was and still is a joke and 2. if I had worked there full time, I know my brain would've turned into mush.

[Anonymous]

My sister and bro-in-law work for another federal agency. She is lazy, "works" from home half the week and he is a workaholic and has quickly advanced to the executive level. From talking to them, sounds like he has the only work ethic out of the entire department - but he can't easily fire anyone and is just resigned to it.

At my agency, the admin staff basically looks at their career as a job-rights bill and does nothing all day long. They get offended when you ask them to do something. Reminds me of the workers at K-Mart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

Stop watching Fox News and you'll get some accurate information. Study after study has shown that most federal workers make significantly LESS than their private sector counterparts. The one exception to this rule is administrative staff, clerical workers, and secretaries - they tend to make somewhat more than their private counterparts.

You are welcome.

Actually I heard this in a WTOP broadcast. Do they also have an agenda? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't see this. How did they trade high pay when all the stats I've read say they make MORE than their private sector counterparts.

Stop watching Fox News and you'll get some accurate information. Study after study has shown that most federal workers make significantly LESS than their private sector counterparts. The one exception to this rule is administrative staff, clerical workers, and secretaries - they tend to make somewhat more than their private counterparts.

You are welcome.

Actually I heard this in a WTOP broadcast. Do they also have an agenda? Serious question.

PP here.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

[Anonymous]

"At my agency, the admin staff basically looks at their career as a job-rights bill and does nothing all day long. They get offended when you ask them to do something."

Sounds like the HR office where I work. They do like to plan parties, though.

[Anonymous]

Stop watching Fox News and you'll get some accurate information. Study after study has shown that most federal workers make significantly LESS than their private sector counterparts. The one exception to this rule is administrative staff, clerical workers, and secretaries - they tend to make somewhat more than their private counterparts.

You are welcome.



Actually I heard this in a WTOP broadcast. Do they also have an agenda? Serious question.



PP here.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

Did you actually read that article?? It repeated my point. Administrative staff (clerical, janitors, cooks, etc.) make more than their private counterparts. Other specializes employees - lawyers, pilots, engineers, etc.--tend to make less than their private counterparts. It also added that there are many jobs for which there IS no private sector equivalent against which to make an informed analysis.

If you think your articled backed up your point, there is no point in continuing this discussion because you misread and misinterpret information.