Pennsylvania Ave SE Crime and Potomac Gardens

[Anonymous]

19:18 - pp here. I appreciate that you are familiar with the system, in more ways than one, and not just just spouting some naive diatribe. Not many people realize what a disservice the criminal justice system truly does for juveniles. Slapping them on the wrist does them NO favors. I've worked in the system, I know. It is disheartening, and perpetuates problems.

[Anonymous]

I am confused by this thread. Does anyone else think it's just the one OP writing back and forth to herself?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by this thread. Does anyone else think it's just the one OP writing back and forth to herself?

I don't know if anyone but you thinks that, but it's not happening.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in public housing / section 8 housing.

This was a very interesting post. Would you mind if I reposted it on the home page as a blog article?

Thank you, and sure!

[Anonymous]

Why does there need to be additional community support for PG. The fact that they get to live in Taxpayer paid housing is support enough. Must we now take care of them as well and stop them from making mistakes? Our duty to them ends when they take our tax dollars.

[Anonymous]

@19:18:

I appreciate your well-reasoned comment. But at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I'm reasonably sure that 99% of the PG neighbors are already well aware of all of this. In short, you're preaching to the choir.

I'd like to repost a public email from the local ANC rep to the Hilleast community that captures my position perfectly:

We need the following:

1. Prosecute all attacks to the fullest extent of the law – the AUSA and Judges
should not water down charges or punishments. A violent crime needs to be
prosecuted, and not weaseled out of by our bureaucracy.

I get frustrated when I hear the talk about the offenders being `victims' and
how we need to do more to serve them. Well, life is tough all over, buddy. I had
a rough childhood, but it did not make me a criminal.

Does everyone forget about the actual victim of the crime? Our Government,
elected officials, non-profits and everyone else, need to speak up for the
victim's rights. We do this by ensuring that criminals are actually prosecuted,
locked up, and then get the help/therapy that they need while serving their
time. Maybe they should face the person they attacked too? Let them feel
remorse, and repent by serving their time and hearing how the victim feels (or
maybe not, since the criminal might get perverse pleasure from this).

2. Confidentiality laws regarding juveniles. When a juveniles commits a crime(s)
it is shrouded in secrecy to protect the youth. This confidentiality, I believe,
does much more harm than good, since the police, their teachers, neighbors, etc.
will have no knowledge that the child committed a crime. Even if the child has
committed and been caught for 100 crimes, it is still confidential. How can this
child get the services he needs if no one knows about it?

3. If the offending juvenile lives in public housing, their family gets one
warning to get their child back on track. A second infraction and see my
proposal on Community Service below. If the juvenile commits a third act of
breaking the law, the family gets thrown out of public housing. Bad behavior
should never be rewarded with free or subsidized housing. I know that the DC
Housing Authority does not allow people who commit crimes to live in public
housing, but this needs to be strictly enforced down to the juvenile level.

4. Community Service: Commit a less than violent crime in the neighborhood, make
the child pay with a huge amount of community service (so every weekend for a
year is filled with labor, so no one has the energy to do anything but go home
and rest) and make them do part of it side by side with their parent(s). If my
Mom was next to me picking up litter, or painting over graffiti because of my
actions, it will make a very unpleasant experience at home afterward.

5. Install street cameras that can record action that goes on. I believe that
most of our street cameras can only show real time and not record activities. If
no one is watching the monitor at the very moment something is happening then
the opportunity to hit `record' is lost forever. Some consider this an invasion
of privacy, but I feel that this will help identify criminals.

Two facts:

1. DC Jail is not overcrowded. When I last checked it was only 2/3 full.

2. Potomac Gardens is not our only Public Housing in the area. We have Kentucky
Courts at 13th and D SE, we have Hopkins on 12th and K SE. So let's not blame PG
for all the problems. I believe that criminals use PG as a cover and don't
actually live there.

Write to our City Council, our Mayor Elect, our Attorney General and our Judges.
Let them know, we demand change in carrying out Juvenile Justice and fighting
crime.

Neil Glick
ANC Commissioner 6B08

[Anonymous]

Hi 8:59. I don't know if I can be preaching to the choir, because I don't think you agree with me at all. While I do agree with your first point, that these criminals (and they are) should be prosecuted, we part ways after that. I wish I had hours to make a well-reasoned response to your ANC rep's position, because I think it captures the way that many people feel, and I most certainly DO understand why they feel that way. I used to live on the corner of 14th and Tennessee, NE. While not exactly a neighbor, I probably know you, or at least know you a little bit from the MOTH list. I might know the victim. Hell, I could BE the victim someday, since I'm still at that Harris Teeter and Fragers all of the time. The Hill will always feel like home to my family. Trust me, I'm not immune to the same helpless anger you all feel at the way things are going down. But being angry doesn't absolve me of my obligation to try and make a difference, or at the very least, to refrain from obstructing others who want to.

Here's what I mean:

Anonymous wrote:

We need the following:

1. Prosecute all attacks to the fullest extent of the law – the AUSA and Judges
should not water down charges or punishments. A violent crime needs to be
prosecuted, and not weaseled out of by our bureaucracy.

I agree.

I get frustrated when I hear the talk about the offenders being `victims' and
how we need to do more to serve them. Well, life is tough all over, buddy. I had
a rough childhood, but it did not make me a criminal.

This may be true. But your childhood is irrelevant. I had a "rough" childhood too, but I don't congratulate myself on not becoming a criminal. I recognize that my current success is the result of hard work plus a mixture of family support and, frankly, luck. Anyway, because some people escape the system without succumbing to criminality means that everyone will? Obviously not! We are all staring at the proof again and again. The problem is, we all just tell ourselves "it's not my problem" until random white women get punched up on the street, and then the focus isn't on the problem, but on the symptom. We thirst for justice, but forget about prevention. What a missed opportunity!

So YES, treat the symptoms. Incarcerate criminals, and try to rehabilitate them with counseling and life and job skills training. If rehabilitation leaves a bad taste in your mouth, OK. I can get past that. But what can any rational person have against prevention? I don't propose investing in these communities or groups of individuals to apologize for what happened in the past. But in case you missed the neon signs: the system is not working. Anything less than a systemic, layered approach to the issue just continues to cut the dandelion heads off. I believe it can be corrected so that fewer criminals are cultivated. I don't know all of the answers, but I hope you'll join me in looking for them with an open mind. To me, part of this starts with scrapping the TANF program that is failing families. On paper, it seems to be working, but I think the juvenile crimes tell a different story. This, coupled with early childhood education, universal preschool, and private institutions (like Martha's Table, for whom I volunteered for many years) who do things like tutor and influence, might change things. By the way, in no way do I think we should revert to the AFDC program of yesteryear. Instead, we need TANF plus, with the "plus" being healthcare (with great strides for kids already obviously happening) and childcare, plus additional life and parenting skills training being a required part.


Does everyone forget about the actual victim of the crime? Our Government,
elected officials, non-profits and everyone else, need to speak up for the
victim's rights. We do this by ensuring that criminals are actually prosecuted,
locked up, and then get the help/therapy that they need while serving their
time. Maybe they should face the person they attacked too? Let them feel
remorse, and repent by serving their time and hearing how the victim feels (or
maybe not, since the criminal might get perverse pleasure from this).

I don't think anyone forgets about the victims. I've thought about the constantly since hearing the news. I think this otherwise makes his first point over again.

2. Confidentiality laws regarding juveniles. When a juveniles commits a crime(s)
it is shrouded in secrecy to protect the youth. This confidentiality, I believe,
does much more harm than good, since the police, their teachers, neighbors, etc.
will have no knowledge that the child committed a crime. Even if the child has
committed and been caught for 100 crimes, it is still confidential. How can this
child get the services he needs if no one knows about it?

Absolutely not. This ANC rep is angry. I understand. But I think his anger would be salved if the criminal justice system dealt with these juvenile offenders in a more meaningful way. The child can get the services he needs if the proper law enforcement knows about his record. The problem is that the criminal justice system is failing both the criminals and the victims. Unfortunately, the solution to this problem is not going to be publicizing a child's criminal history. Our problem is that the justice system is not doing enough. But let's not overreact and ask it to do too much.

3. If the offending juvenile lives in public housing, their family gets one
warning to get their child back on track. A second infraction and see my
proposal on Community Service below. If the juvenile commits a third act of
breaking the law, the family gets thrown out of public housing. Bad behavior
should never be rewarded with free or subsidized housing. I know that the DC
Housing Authority does not allow people who commit crimes to live in public
housing, but this needs to be strictly enforced down to the juvenile level.

I don't think this would be necessary if the criminal justice system were corrected with respect to juvenile offenses. If we don't fix the system, and we do not simultaneously invest in Americans living in severe poverty in a meaningful way, this becomes a game of hot potato. Ultimately, the potato lands in somebody's lap. BTW, I hate to call this person on semantics, but I'm not sure anyone living in Potomac Gardens feels particularly rewarded.

4. Community Service: Commit a less than violent crime in the neighborhood, make
the child pay with a huge amount of community service (so every weekend for a
year is filled with labor, so no one has the energy to do anything but go home
and rest) and make them do part of it side by side with their parent(s). If my
Mom was next to me picking up litter, or painting over graffiti because of my
actions, it will make a very unpleasant experience at home afterward.

I agree with community service and think he's onto something with requiring parents to participate. But the scope and level of it just illustrates how far away from reality this person is. Does he think these parents have 9-5 jobs and free weekends? You force mom to work and she has other children, too. So you take her and put her out there working even more with her child, who has committed a "less than violent crime." It might seem fair to you, it might even seem like as much as that mother deserves for, I don't know, being poor, "abusing the system," or whatever else. Let's abandon what we know about her situation and the desperation, and assume she's a really bad person who deserves it for raising such a "bad kid." What do you say to the other kids, when you worsen the situation of an absent, exhausted, angry, resentful, and desperate parent???? Who and what is left for these children?

5. Install street cameras that can record action that goes on. I believe that
most of our street cameras can only show real time and not record activities. If
no one is watching the monitor at the very moment something is happening then
the opportunity to hit `record' is lost forever. Some consider this an invasion
of privacy, but I feel that this will help identify criminals.

Holy shit.


Write to our City Council, our Mayor Elect, our Attorney General and our Judges.
Let them know, we demand change in carrying out Juvenile Justice and fighting
crime.

I agree with this. But let's be intelligent about the change we want!

Neil Glick
ANC Commissioner 6B08

Okay, so that's it. Since I attacked the thoughts of a person who was identified by name, it's fair enough to disclose mine. I'm Faye Black. Happy to stand behind my ramblings, but please forgive any typos or grammatical mistakes, since I'm trying to write this with some haste so I can get back to work.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your comments, Faye! I really appreciate the time you took in addressing the issues.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Faye Black. A voice of reason, compassion, experience, and dare say, wisdom.

[Anonymous]

Faye Black, what a great response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does there need to be additional community support for PG. The fact that they get to live in Taxpayer paid housing is support enough. Must we now take care of them as well and stop them from making mistakes? Our duty to them ends when they take our tax dollars.

It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If your goal is a system where no-one is getting more handouts than anyone else, doing nothing (not even subsidizing housing) is a fine idea. But if your goal is for everyone--including the rich--to feel secure in their city, and for the government not to be wasting money, spending more on additional services may well be a good investment.

[Anonymous]

But in case you missed the neon signs: the system is not working. Anything less than a systemic, layered approach to the issue just continues to cut the dandelion heads off.

Really? The system is not working? What a piercing insight.

Meanwhile, we're at approximately year 70 of one "systematic, layered approach to the issue" after another. I'm glad to hear we'll solve the issue of global poverty with just one last iteration.

My prediction is Potomac Gardens will be gone in five years, a small percentage of current residents will remain, and the rest given Section 8 vouchers. Too much wealth in that neighborhood for things to go one the way they are and, unfortunately, nothing the anti-poverty folks have tried has or will work.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, ethical or unethical, but if it can't be made safe it'll be gone. And it can't be made safe. So it'll be gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on what your ultimate goal is. If your goal is a system where no-one is getting more handouts than anyone else, doing nothing (not even subsidizing housing) is a fine idea. But if your goal is for everyone--including the rich--to feel secure in their city, and for the government not to be wasting money, spending more on additional services may well be a good investment.

No, there's at least one or more other components you're leaving out. If our goal is for every DC resident to feel secure in their city, the simple answer is to let the market take its course, and allow the rising costs of housing to result in an all middle- and upper-middle class neighborhood, since that demographic is responsible for roughly .00000000001% of street crime.

Obviously there's a middle ground between those two positions.

[Anonymous]

Let's get something clear here - if you restricted it to people over 65, then by law since it receives federal funding you'd also have to allow the disabled (of any age in). That's all well and good, but did you know that drug addicts actually qualify as "disabled" under Federal law?

This latter point is actually a pretty sensitive issue in the senior community. Write your congressman.

[Anonymous]

http://dcist.com/2010/12/arrest_following_assault_on_pennsyl.php

Arrest for this incident?