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Anonymous
That's the myth. The reality is that Europe has higher rates of alcohol dependence and alcohol-related health problems. Here is what the WHO says about Europe and Alchohol:
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Anonymous
Somewhere in there, you may have an argument. But you certainly haven't made it yet. What you've got is essentially what I said earlier: Europeans tend to drink more. That and the fact that Eastern Europeans tend to drink themselves to death. (i.e. "A country’s total per capita alcohol consumption is closely related to its prevalence of alcohol-related harm and alcohol dependence. This high level of harm hides enormous alcohol-related health inequalities between eastern and western Europe, particularly for injury deaths.") What you haven't shown is some sort of epidemic of poor health in Western Europe compared to the United States. As a matter of fact, it's pretty clear both factually and anecdotally that Western Europeans have better health outcomes, higher standards of living, and longer life-expectancy than Americans in general. Perhaps it's time we, as a nation, poured ourselves a glass of wine and unclenched a bit. |
Anonymous
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/abstract
Results: Controlling only for age and gender, compared to moderate drinkers, abstainers had a more than 2 times increased mortality risk, heavy drinkers had 70% increased risk, and light drinkers had 23% increased risk. A model controlling for former problem drinking status, existing health problems, and key sociodemographic and social-behavioral factors, as well as for age and gender, substantially reduced the mortality effect for abstainers compared to moderate drinkers. However, even after adjusting for all covariates, abstainers and heavy drinkers continued to show increased mortality risks of 51 and 45%, respectively, compared to moderate drinkers. I know this upsets the drinking alcohol=not much of a life=early death brigade, but research indicates that moderate drinking offers substantial health benefits. Moreover, according to this large-scale study, heavy drinkers actually showed slightly lower mortality rates than abstainers... |
Anonymous
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This is an interesting conversation to me. I recently started seeing a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with moderate depression and am on Zoloft. During the eval appointment she of course asked about alcohol consumption. I told her that DH and I both have in the vicinity of 2-3 drinks (always wine for me) 5 to 6 nights a week...can be more than that on Fri or Sat night. She made it pretty clear she didn't approve of that intake. She asked if I had ever had a period since I started drinking (in college) where I didn't drink alcohol for a period of time. Apparently the two pregnancies to her didn't count...and otherwise my answer was no, as I've always at least drank some on weekend nights. (Am I really that unusual??) Ultimately her message was that I'd have trouble "getting better" if I made alcohol a priority over treatment.
I just found it somewhat of a disturbing and judgmental conversation, but at the same time I got her point and it did make me think. Of course I went home and shared this with DH and we immediately decided that while we/I wasn't going to give up drinking altogether that we'd cut back to just 2 - 3 nights a week (mainly around weekends). And we have. I've also been on Weight Watchers a couple of times where I significantly cut back and it wasn't a problem then. Do I feel like I can stop drinking when I need/want to? Yes. Do I miss wine a lot when I'm not drinking it? Yes. Do I feel that it impairs my functioning? Do I get mean or other undesirable behaviors? No and no. But do I have a problem because I could easily drink a couple glasses of wine every night of the week? I don't know...but the psychiatrist sure made me feel like I did! |
Anonymous
Well, physically there is no evidence to suggest that having 1 or 2 or 3 glasses of wine every day will do you any harm. It will increase the risk of some cancers but the benefits seem to outweigh those risks. |
Anonymous
You totally missed the point they were making in the WHO study. They are telling you that the more a people in a country drink, the more harm the alcohol does and that it is so signifiant that the rate itself overshadows the discrepancies between outcomes in the east vs. the west. The more a country drinks, the more it impacts their health. This is the point. "Style" and "culture" don't matter. Nor does it matter whether the parents are "cool" about introducing alcohol to teens. What really matters is total consumption. |
Anonymous
I remember reading this when it was published. So fascinating. One theory for why moderate drinkers fared best was that perhaps moderate drinking was a proxy for rich social connections-- which research has shown contribute to good health-- since a lot of socializing involved some alcohol consumption. |
Anonymous
Fine. But that's not what your copied text says. It hopelessly conflates "Europe" with the "European Union", sometimes referring to Western Europe and Eastern Europe. There's on evidence whatsoever that the moderately higher rate of alcohol consumption in Western Europe leads to adverse impacts in the health of Western Europe's population. As I said, these are a collection of semi-related bullet-points, but there's no argument there. |
Anonymous
| So I have a good girlfriend who does drink 1 to 2 drinks per weeknight but then binge drinks on many Friday and Saturday nights. I've always thought that she might be an alcoholic, particularly due to the weekend binging. Thoughts? |
Anonymous
No. The research does not say that having 3 glasses of wine per day is good for you. The research suggests that having a single glass of red wine has some benefits, but other studies show that having even 1 glass of wine per day - just 1 - increases the risk of cancer, especially breast cancer. And does everyone know what 1 glass of wine is? It's not much. It's a pretty small amount. Most people fill their wine glasses with what is considered by these studies to be 2 glasses. |
Anonymous
Maybe. There are two types of alcohol issue: addiction and abuse. Addiction means you can't live without it. Abuse means you use it in harmful ways. A person who may take or leave drinks during the week, but rages on the weekends is probably an abuser. They may not be addicted. |
Anonymous
Yes there is. They just told you that there is a largely dose dependent relationship. That comes from WHO, studying alcohol use worldwide. What more do you want? If you wish, you can pull the WHO data yourself. It's freely available. I just gave the summary conclusions. Do you know what the terms "dose-response" and "dose-dependent" mean? It means outcomes are highly correlated to dosage (ie, how much you drink). |
Anonymous
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OP - This is such a timely discussion for me, as my husband has a similar drinking pattern, and none of the typical associated problems that go with normal alcoholism. Nonetheless I have worried about it for years.
I think the tenor of this thread is all too typical in these discussions, and it is not necessarily one that is helpful to people like you and me. People jump on the "He's an alcoholic" bandwagon, and anyone who disagrees is just in denial. I remember having "alcohol counseling" at my sorority back in college after our house threw a party and got busted. The university psychologist came in and lectured us on the evils of alcoholism. He then asked a series of 5 questions regarding our drinking habits, and said if we answered "yes" to 3 or more of them, then we were alcoholics. Under his metrics, 95% of my sorority sisters were alcoholics. 95%. And we were the "brainy/geeky" girls on campus and definitely not known for our parties. I found his methods so ridiculous, it has made me really suspicious of these cut and dried "tests" wherein people are quick to say, "oh, he drinks every day? He MUST be an alcoholic." "Oh, he drinks 3 or more glasses of wine more than twice a week? He is an alcoholic." Any attempts to discuss or defend result in an eye roll and an instantaneous judgment that you are just in denial. My husband actually used to party hard in college (as I did), and so in the overall scheme of things, he drinks far less now (at age 40) than he used to. But its still more than 1-2 drinks per night. Not a lot more... but more. Alcoholism can be such a serious disease, but I sometimes wonder if our society has started to overcompensate for this by over-labeling people who like to drink as alchoholics. I mean, isn't it just possible that some people really LIKE wine/beer the same way that I like pizza and chocolate? I myself have a margarita (just one) every night. It is part of my after work routine and I like it. I have one basically every day. Do I skip days here and there? Sure. Do I get cranky when I am traveling or somewhere else and I can't have one? No. But I do enjoy them. I have agonized over this issue for close to 10 years. I think because of the dangers of alcoholism, and because we now have 3 kids, I have been very worried about my husband's drinking. I know he occasionally lies or fudges the amount of drinks he's had to me. (OMG! He's HIDING IT. HE MUST BE AN ALCOHOLIC!). Meh... I'm not convinced. I think he fudges lots of things (including the thermostat settings, the amount of time for his golf, etc.) not because he is an alcoholic but because he is tremendously non-confrontational, and would rather fudge than fight. And he knows I have been "on him" about the drinking for years. This is a challenge in our marraige, but I think it is one that is born out of communication problems, rather than alcoholism. About a year ago, I got worked up about it again, and did some significant research on alcoholism. Many of the organizations that fight alcoholism have some sort of on-line test re: "how do you know if you're an alcoholic". They vary GREATLY. Some seem pretty relaxed, some reasonable, and some are ridiculous. Finally I came across some information that made more sense to me, and it is what I have gone with. I'm not sure if my husband is an alcoholic... even a "functioning" alcoholic. I think more importantly for me, the issue is: Is he a "problem drinker". Is his drinking causing problems in our marraige? No, except for when I nag him and he fudges. Is it keeping him from being an otherwise engaged and good husband and father? no. A productive employee? No. Ultimately, there is really only my worry about liver cirrohsis (ack I'm a bad speller!) that creeps into my head. But in general, he is healthy. He also eats (IMO) too much red meat. But is the alcohol really any different in that manner? Maybe not. I don't think I'd like being micromanaged about my eating habits either... so... I decided to let it go. Really. I'm sure some will say I'm in denial, and enabling, blah blah blah... but this has worked for me. I'm more relaxed, he's more relaxed. I do keep an eye out and would revisit the issue if the 3 drinks per night ever turns into 4 or 5. But for now, I'm content to address it as a health concern. (i.e., please keep an eye on the drinking... I want you still alive to see our children get married and have kids). Good luck to you. |
Anonymous
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PP- well said. I agree.
I actually feel a little bad for the OP's husband. If you read the OP back again: "With constant vigilance/nagging, I can probably keep him to under 20 drinks/week -- maybe as low as 17 or 18. However, he hides drinking (even if it's just one beer) from me when I try to lay down rules (no drinking on a school night, etc.)." I can just imagine the husband, who enjoys a couple of beers after working all day and getting the kids to bed, and then has to deal with the OP's controlling behavior. No wonder he's hiding that he drank a beer. It's not because he feels guilty and thinks he shouldn't be, but he is just trying to avoid the wife's "constant vigilance/nagging." She sounds like a pain in the ass. |
Anonymous
Yep. I understand where the nagging is coming from--given the amount of fear-mongering. But, again, alcoholism is an actual condition. It has nothing to do with whether you have 2-3 drinks per night. It diminishes the struggle of alcoholics to throw the term around indiscriminately. I understand why recovering alcoholics and those who've had their lives impacted by family alcoholism are so aggressive about this stuff. Sodium sensitivity has been shown to be highly correlated to genes. Some folks can't eat salt--it's a killer. For most folks, it's fairly benign. If folks in my family were susceptible to sodium-related hypertension, I'd probably be out there telling everyone who ate a potato chip that they were killing themselves, too. I'd think that those who wouldn't listen were in denial, and get upset. But for most people, there just isn't really any danger there. |