4th Year of Language

[Anonymous]

My kid finished Chinese 5 in 10th grade. Did not do AP Chinese and did not do the exam. The teacher was horrible and focused on native speakers.

They and several classmates did the same thing. They all got into T25 schools, none wanted Ivy League. They are all happy and doing well in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Endless discussions of this on college forum.

For highly competitive schools, it's not about the total number of years studied if kid started in MS, but about reaching the highest level offered by the HS. It's the same as for all core subjects: they want to see kids taking the most rigorous classes offered. So for languages for which AP/IB are available, those schools ideally want to see applicants taking an AP/IB class (which may happen junior year or may happen senior year for most kids).

I have no knowledge of what that means for ASL, but presumably it would mean taking through the highest level offered, but that would be a question to ask DC's HS's college counseling office.

And of course there will be exceptions to all of this, but if DC wants to maximize chances, it's about getting to the highest level, not about taking 4 years if you are counting DC's MS years

To reach the highest level you have to start in MS. For Spanish, some schools go to AP or spanish 6 or IB.

The rule seems to be: Take through AP/IB if possible (i.e., you start in middle school). If not, then take at least 3 years in high school, and preferably 4.

We dropped it after Spanish 5, done with 11. Teacher was terrible for Spanish 5 and no way we were dealing with another year. If 5 years is not enough too bad. It’s crazy as then schools complain they don’t have enough classes in their intended major. Kids cannot win.

[Anonymous]

I sympathize about the crap teacher. My kid currently has a crap teacher in a core subject and we are at our wits' end. We got tutors, because it's not a language class they can just drop, but it's not moving the grade that much - the teacher just walks in, decides to teach the curriculum in a random order, and creates weekly tests that do not actually pertain to the unit. Complaints to the school have gone unanswered because they cannot find someone else to teach this class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

Not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

Linked article does not support your claim of "not counting middle school" all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

Not true.

Very true. My DD and I were told something very similar by the Johns Hopkins rep at her school's college fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

Linked article does not support your claim of "not counting middle school" all.

Only someone in admissions can know for sure. But think about it, which is going to look better. A class like Spanish 5 or AP Spanish or some “magnet” elective an AO has never heard of

[Anonymous]

Kids who start language in sixth grade and reach AP by junior year should not be punished for their ambition. I am not going to make my kid take AP Spanish Lit as a senior, as he hates lit, and it would be like torture to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

So are you saying they explicitly or implicitly suggested to you that it's significantly harder to get into UMD if you only have 3 years of high school foreign language? Even if the kid took 2 or 3 years of foreign language in middle school and gets to Spanish 5 or AP Spanish junior year? Has anyone else heard this?

[Anonymous]

Yes MS counts. But still want at least 4 years total and at least 2 in HS itself. Getting to AP is ideal, doesn’t matter when. But if not AP, then the above is minimum.
My DC reached AP Spanish by 10th because of required World Lang in all of MS. So 2 yrs in HS. Didn’t continue with language in any way/EC/class- just got accepted to top choice ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

What schools combine AP/IB with lower levels? My child was told by her Spanish teacher at Einstein that Spanish 4 is combined with IB. The only difference is IB students take the IB exam. What’s the incentive for kids to go beyond Spanish 4?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes MS counts. But still want at least 4 years total and at least 2 in HS itself. Getting to AP is ideal, doesn’t matter when. But if not AP, then the above is minimum.
My DC reached AP Spanish by 10th because of required World Lang in all of MS. So 2 yrs in HS. Didn’t continue with language in any way/EC/class- just got accepted to top choice ivy.

This is UMD saying that MS counts and 2 years in HS is okay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sympathize about the crap teacher. My kid currently has a crap teacher in a core subject and we are at our wits' end. We got tutors, because it's not a language class they can just drop, but it's not moving the grade that much - the teacher just walks in, decides to teach the curriculum in a random order, and creates weekly tests that do not actually pertain to the unit. Complaints to the school have gone unanswered because they cannot find someone else to teach this class.

We have that. It’s the worst especially for ap classes with no textbooks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

What schools combine AP/IB with lower levels? My child was told by her Spanish teacher at Einstein that Spanish 4 is combined with IB. The only difference is IB students take the IB exam. What’s the incentive for kids to go beyond Spanish 4?

Einstein does multiple Spanish classes with IB, 4 and 5. It’s terrible.

[Anonymous]

You have to understand that when UMD says "most competitive" they mean kids from the big mass trying to get in but looking to take study hall or weightlifting instead of World Language, not kids who have 6 APs by junior year and stopped after World Language 4 or 5 junior year so they can take more core academic courses.