4th Year of Language

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

I can't imagine that's the case for kids who take AP junior year. I think they'd prefer another AP to the first year of a language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

It's not clear that Princeton recommends four years in high school. They just say 4 years of a foreign language. And they say it's not required - just recommended. I can't imagine they'd penalize someone who scores a 5 on the AP exam junior year.

See https://admission.princeton.edu/apply/before-you-apply

Recommended Course of Study
This is not a list of admission requirements. We understand that not all secondary schools offer the same academic opportunities, and we give full consideration to students who don’t have access to all of these courses.

If possible, we expect students will complete the following courses before beginning study at Princeton:

Four years of English (including continued practice in writing).
Four years of mathematics (including calculus for students interested in engineering).
Four years of one language.
At least two years of laboratory science (including physics and chemistry for students interested in engineering).
At least two years of history.
In addition, most candidates have had some study in the visual or performing arts.

Whenever you can, challenge yourself with the most rigorous courses possible, such as honors, Advanced Placement (AP) and dual-enrollment courses. We will evaluate the International Baccalaureate (IB), A-levels or another diploma in the context of the program’s curriculum.

Consult your school adviser or counselor to plan a program to help you succeed at whatever college or university you attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

It's not clear that Princeton recommends four years in high school. They just say 4 years of a foreign language. And they say it's not required - just recommended. I can't imagine they'd penalize someone who scores a 5 on the AP exam junior year.

See https://admission.princeton.edu/apply/before-you-apply

Recommended Course of Study
This is not a list of admission requirements. We understand that not all secondary schools offer the same academic opportunities, and we give full consideration to students who don’t have access to all of these courses.

If possible, we expect students will complete the following courses before beginning study at Princeton:

Four years of English (including continued practice in writing).
Four years of mathematics (including calculus for students interested in engineering).
Four years of one language.
At least two years of laboratory science (including physics and chemistry for students interested in engineering).
At least two years of history.
In addition, most candidates have had some study in the visual or performing arts.

Whenever you can, challenge yourself with the most rigorous courses possible, such as honors, Advanced Placement (AP) and dual-enrollment courses. We will evaluate the International Baccalaureate (IB), A-levels or another diploma in the context of the program’s curriculum.

Consult your school adviser or counselor to plan a program to help you succeed at whatever college or university you attend.

I would take that as doing it in ms is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

It's not clear that Princeton recommends four years in high school. They just say 4 years of a foreign language. And they say it's not required - just recommended. I can't imagine they'd penalize someone who scores a 5 on the AP exam junior year.

See https://admission.princeton.edu/apply/before-you-apply

Recommended Course of Study
This is not a list of admission requirements. We understand that not all secondary schools offer the same academic opportunities, and we give full consideration to students who don’t have access to all of these courses.

If possible, we expect students will complete the following courses before beginning study at Princeton:

Four years of English (including continued practice in writing).
Four years of mathematics (including calculus for students interested in engineering).
Four years of one language.
At least two years of laboratory science (including physics and chemistry for students interested in engineering).
At least two years of history.
In addition, most candidates have had some study in the visual or performing arts.

Whenever you can, challenge yourself with the most rigorous courses possible, such as honors, Advanced Placement (AP) and dual-enrollment courses. We will evaluate the International Baccalaureate (IB), A-levels or another diploma in the context of the program’s curriculum.

Consult your school adviser or counselor to plan a program to help you succeed at whatever college or university you attend.

I would take that as doing it in ms is fine.

No. Colleges don’t care about anything that happens in MS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions officer from UMD said their most competitive applicants have 4 years in HS (not counting middle school)

+1. This is oft discussed in the College subforum. Yes, the top schools either require four years (Princeton) or are very clear they want to see four years of a foreign language. https://www.crimsoneducation.org/us/blog/foreign-languages-for-university-admissions

It's not clear that Princeton recommends four years in high school. They just say 4 years of a foreign language. And they say it's not required - just recommended. I can't imagine they'd penalize someone who scores a 5 on the AP exam junior year.

See https://admission.princeton.edu/apply/before-you-apply

Recommended Course of Study
This is not a list of admission requirements. We understand that not all secondary schools offer the same academic opportunities, and we give full consideration to students who don’t have access to all of these courses.

If possible, we expect students will complete the following courses before beginning study at Princeton:

Four years of English (including continued practice in writing).
Four years of mathematics (including calculus for students interested in engineering).
Four years of one language.
At least two years of laboratory science (including physics and chemistry for students interested in engineering).
At least two years of history.
In addition, most candidates have had some study in the visual or performing arts.

Whenever you can, challenge yourself with the most rigorous courses possible, such as honors, Advanced Placement (AP) and dual-enrollment courses. We will evaluate the International Baccalaureate (IB), A-levels or another diploma in the context of the program’s curriculum.

Consult your school adviser or counselor to plan a program to help you succeed at whatever college or university you attend.

I would take that as doing it in ms is fine.

No. Colleges don’t care about anything that happens in MS

Princeton is not expecting 4 years in HS if kids pass the AP junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

If my kids were in such a program, I’d have them do tech and health over the summer to get in 2 more years of a foreign language at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

If my kids were in such a program, I’d have them do tech and health over the summer to get in 2 more years of a foreign language at school.

Tech you can sometimes do in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

Those are opt-in programs, though, and it's no different than the status quo at many HS magnet programs. My child has a 9th period to help ameliorate some of that pressure, but if they didn't want to take the mandatory classes for the magnet, they could just have declined the spot!

[Anonymous]

Endless discussions of this on college forum.

For highly competitive schools, it's not about the total number of years studied if kid started in MS, but about reaching the highest level offered by the HS. It's the same as for all core subjects: they want to see kids taking the most rigorous classes offered. So for languages for which AP/IB are available, those schools ideally want to see applicants taking an AP/IB class (which may happen junior year or may happen senior year for most kids).

I have no knowledge of what that means for ASL, but presumably it would mean taking through the highest level offered, but that would be a question to ask DC's HS's college counseling office.

And of course there will be exceptions to all of this, but if DC wants to maximize chances, it's about getting to the highest level, not about taking 4 years if you are counting DC's MS years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

Those are opt-in programs, though, and it's no different than the status quo at many HS magnet programs. My child has a 9th period to help ameliorate some of that pressure, but if they didn't want to take the mandatory classes for the magnet, they could just have declined the spot!

The thing is that with the new regional model, there are going to be a bunch of schools that end up with very limited advanced classes because they're losing their advanced kids to magnets elsewhere, meaning that smart kids who don't really want to be in programs are basically going to feel forced to enroll in them purely to be able to take the classes they need. (And likewise for certain electives like theatre where the magnets will lead to lower demand at home schools, so kids who want to take those electives will have to enroll in a program to get them.)

If those students can't be in this programs and also take enough years of language to get into competitive colleges, they'll be between a rock and a hard place. MCPS in their presentations about the regional model talked about encouraging kids to complete their foreign language requirements in middle school, so I'm kind of shocked that apparently if kids listen to that they'll be shooting themselves in the foot college-wise...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Endless discussions of this on college forum.

For highly competitive schools, it's not about the total number of years studied if kid started in MS, but about reaching the highest level offered by the HS. It's the same as for all core subjects: they want to see kids taking the most rigorous classes offered. So for languages for which AP/IB are available, those schools ideally want to see applicants taking an AP/IB class (which may happen junior year or may happen senior year for most kids).

I have no knowledge of what that means for ASL, but presumably it would mean taking through the highest level offered, but that would be a question to ask DC's HS's college counseling office.

And of course there will be exceptions to all of this, but if DC wants to maximize chances, it's about getting to the highest level, not about taking 4 years if you are counting DC's MS years

To reach the highest level you have to start in MS. For Spanish, some schools go to AP or spanish 6 or IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

Those are opt-in programs, though, and it's no different than the status quo at many HS magnet programs. My child has a 9th period to help ameliorate some of that pressure, but if they didn't want to take the mandatory classes for the magnet, they could just have declined the spot!

The thing is that with the new regional model, there are going to be a bunch of schools that end up with very limited advanced classes because they're losing their advanced kids to magnets elsewhere, meaning that smart kids who don't really want to be in programs are basically going to feel forced to enroll in them purely to be able to take the classes they need. (And likewise for certain electives like theatre where the magnets will lead to lower demand at home schools, so kids who want to take those electives will have to enroll in a program to get them.)

If those students can't be in this programs and also take enough years of language to get into competitive colleges, they'll be between a rock and a hard place. MCPS in their presentations about the regional model talked about encouraging kids to complete their foreign language requirements in middle school, so I'm kind of shocked that apparently if kids listen to that they'll be shooting themselves in the foot college-wise...

Each magnet is only going to take a handful of kids at best at each school so there isn't going to be a huge impact. Our schools now have limited advanced classes. You either go without or go to MC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about top universities? Does it matter for those?

We've been told top schools want 3 years in high school (so middle school language doesn't count). And that they prefer spoken and written languages to ASL, FWIW.

How is that going to work with the new regional programs which mostly seem to only have room for kids to take 1 or 2 years of foreign language in HS?

What do you mean they only have room for 1 or 2 years? All schools seems to offer through AP/IB, which should take kids through junior year. If you mean that you have to take a bunch of classes to fulfill program requirements, students would need to use an elective slot for foreign language.

For the regional programs, many of them have the elective spots filled up with program classes for most years, with space only allotted for 1 or 2 years of foreign language in high school (see here, starts page 37: https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf)

Those are opt-in programs, though, and it's no different than the status quo at many HS magnet programs. My child has a 9th period to help ameliorate some of that pressure, but if they didn't want to take the mandatory classes for the magnet, they could just have declined the spot!

The thing is that with the new regional model, there are going to be a bunch of schools that end up with very limited advanced classes because they're losing their advanced kids to magnets elsewhere, meaning that smart kids who don't really want to be in programs are basically going to feel forced to enroll in them purely to be able to take the classes they need. (And likewise for certain electives like theatre where the magnets will lead to lower demand at home schools, so kids who want to take those electives will have to enroll in a program to get them.)

If those students can't be in this programs and also take enough years of language to get into competitive colleges, they'll be between a rock and a hard place. MCPS in their presentations about the regional model talked about encouraging kids to complete their foreign language requirements in middle school, so I'm kind of shocked that apparently if kids listen to that they'll be shooting themselves in the foot college-wise...

I have not been following the regional magnet updates since my kid is graduating but I think you are correct to be concerned. This is very bad advice from what I know about college admissions.

As a follow on, I would also be concerned how colleges will look at these magnet classes if they are not AP. Lots of colleges were familiar with Blair, RM and Poolesville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Endless discussions of this on college forum.

For highly competitive schools, it's not about the total number of years studied if kid started in MS, but about reaching the highest level offered by the HS. It's the same as for all core subjects: they want to see kids taking the most rigorous classes offered. So for languages for which AP/IB are available, those schools ideally want to see applicants taking an AP/IB class (which may happen junior year or may happen senior year for most kids).

I have no knowledge of what that means for ASL, but presumably it would mean taking through the highest level offered, but that would be a question to ask DC's HS's college counseling office.

And of course there will be exceptions to all of this, but if DC wants to maximize chances, it's about getting to the highest level, not about taking 4 years if you are counting DC's MS years

To reach the highest level you have to start in MS. For Spanish, some schools go to AP or spanish 6 or IB.

The rule seems to be: Take through AP/IB if possible (i.e., you start in middle school). If not, then take at least 3 years in high school, and preferably 4.