Love paying to spectate at a champs meet and they have no scoreboard running

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Winter Classic always feel like amateur hour? Every time they are here it is the same issues that they blame on the venue but yet other teams have no problem. Big sigh.

The first thing we need to understand is that this isn't a "Champs Meet". It's just a plain ole LSC sanctioned meet with fancy marketing and/or expensive fees designed to make money for the host club. It's really the same as NCSA's or the Katie Ledecky invite, a meet pretending to be some sort of national level championship meet to entice more swimmers from registering with expensive fees.

After you understand that, then you can understand why things don't run smoothly as that would interfere with the primary objective of making money for the host club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

And it’s not custom in PVS to charge a spectator fee. Yet this meet does.

Exactly- it is the most expensive holiday meet. And they are always disorganized!

KLI charges separately for prelims and finals. So $10/day or $25/all session.

Considering that Katie Ledecky herself is swimming on Sunday, that fee does not seem exorbitant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s yours other than being miserable?

Again I have don’t get the complaining when people bailed on volunteering and they filed the roles relatively quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got a timer for the girls pool quickly but then called for 2 timers from a specific club on the boys pool. I have no idea if those timers were from the club they were looking for or not but people did step up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they needed 2 timers for the boys pool yesterday morning, they did make an announcement requesting two from a specific team.

I’m a Marlins parent who works multiple shifts at this meet and I agree that requiring a certain number per club might help but ultimately if people sign up and no show AND don’t remove their names from the sign up in advance, I don’t know what the solution is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

I worked the meet yesterday and it was less of a disaster than years past. The scoreboard was glitchy at the beginning, but then it started working. And Meet Mobile was working.

The volunteer issue seems to persist, however. Not sure if there are any Marlins parents on here, but one thing that could make the meet run smoother is to allocate an exact number of volunteer spots for each team. And then hold the teams accountable for filling them versus walking the stands yelling “we need volunteers”

The sign up genius had been completely full for over a week. The problem is people who signed up and then no-show...

Not requiring a timer from the club of the no-show is garbage move.

This did not happen at the girls pool. My spouse, signed up to time other sessions, timed yesterday because of no shows not associated with our club.

What’s your point?

Well, dipstick, they filled the role quickly because my spouse said “f- it, I’ll do it”. Even though already committed to volunteer for future sessions.

So what’s the problem? No problem for you, significant inconvenience for us. But do go on with your pea-brained perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does Winter Classic always feel like amateur hour? Every time they are here it is the same issues that they blame on the venue but yet other teams have no problem. Big sigh.

The first thing we need to understand is that this isn't a "Champs Meet". It's just a plain ole LSC sanctioned meet with fancy marketing and/or expensive fees designed to make money for the host club. It's really the same as NCSA's or the Katie Ledecky invite, a meet pretending to be some sort of national level championship meet to entice more swimmers from registering with expensive fees.

After you understand that, then you can understand why things don't run smoothly as that would interfere with the primary objective of making money for the host club.

Sorry to break it to you but both KLI and NCSA’s bring in top swimmers from multiple states making them very competitive championship meets. These aren’t the same swimmers nor is a plain ole LSC meet.

[Anonymous]

You’re being a real ahole to a person for no reason. If it was a major inconvenience for your family then he should not have volunteered. The would have found an additional timer regardless. Participation in the meet is optional so not sure why you’re so woe is me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s yours other than being miserable?

Again I have don’t get the complaining when people bailed on volunteering and they filed the roles relatively quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got a timer for the girls pool quickly but then called for 2 timers from a specific club on the boys pool. I have no idea if those timers were from the club they were looking for or not but people did step up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they needed 2 timers for the boys pool yesterday morning, they did make an announcement requesting two from a specific team.

I’m a Marlins parent who works multiple shifts at this meet and I agree that requiring a certain number per club might help but ultimately if people sign up and no show AND don’t remove their names from the sign up in advance, I don’t know what the solution is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

I worked the meet yesterday and it was less of a disaster than years past. The scoreboard was glitchy at the beginning, but then it started working. And Meet Mobile was working.

The volunteer issue seems to persist, however. Not sure if there are any Marlins parents on here, but one thing that could make the meet run smoother is to allocate an exact number of volunteer spots for each team. And then hold the teams accountable for filling them versus walking the stands yelling “we need volunteers”

The sign up genius had been completely full for over a week. The problem is people who signed up and then no-show...

Not requiring a timer from the club of the no-show is garbage move.

This did not happen at the girls pool. My spouse, signed up to time other sessions, timed yesterday because of no shows not associated with our club.

What’s your point?

Well, dipstick, they filled the role quickly because my spouse said “f- it, I’ll do it”. Even though already committed to volunteer for future sessions.

So what’s the problem? No problem for you, significant inconvenience for us. But do go on with your pea-brained perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does Winter Classic always feel like amateur hour? Every time they are here it is the same issues that they blame on the venue but yet other teams have no problem. Big sigh.

The first thing we need to understand is that this isn't a "Champs Meet". It's just a plain ole LSC sanctioned meet with fancy marketing and/or expensive fees designed to make money for the host club. It's really the same as NCSA's or the Katie Ledecky invite, a meet pretending to be some sort of national level championship meet to entice more swimmers from registering with expensive fees.

After you understand that, then you can understand why things don't run smoothly as that would interfere with the primary objective of making money for the host club.

Sorry to break it to you but both KLI and NCSA’s bring in top swimmers from multiple states making them very competitive championship meets. These aren’t the same swimmers nor is a plain ole LSC meet.

Agree that Winter Classic is not at the same level as NCSAs, or maybe even KLI. However, I tend to think of Winter Classic as the same as a plain ole LSC meet with prelims/finals. It’s not much different than Swim and Rock last month or other prelim/final meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’re being a real ahole to a person for no reason. If it was a major inconvenience for your family then he should not have volunteered. The would have found an additional timer regardless. Participation in the meet is optional so not sure why you’re so woe is me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s yours other than being miserable?

Again I have don’t get the complaining when people bailed on volunteering and they filed the roles relatively quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got a timer for the girls pool quickly but then called for 2 timers from a specific club on the boys pool. I have no idea if those timers were from the club they were looking for or not but people did step up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they needed 2 timers for the boys pool yesterday morning, they did make an announcement requesting two from a specific team.

I’m a Marlins parent who works multiple shifts at this meet and I agree that requiring a certain number per club might help but ultimately if people sign up and no show AND don’t remove their names from the sign up in advance, I don’t know what the solution is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

I worked the meet yesterday and it was less of a disaster than years past. The scoreboard was glitchy at the beginning, but then it started working. And Meet Mobile was working.

The volunteer issue seems to persist, however. Not sure if there are any Marlins parents on here, but one thing that could make the meet run smoother is to allocate an exact number of volunteer spots for each team. And then hold the teams accountable for filling them versus walking the stands yelling “we need volunteers”

The sign up genius had been completely full for over a week. The problem is people who signed up and then no-show...

Not requiring a timer from the club of the no-show is garbage move.

This did not happen at the girls pool. My spouse, signed up to time other sessions, timed yesterday because of no shows not associated with our club.

What’s your point?

Well, dipstick, they filled the role quickly because my spouse said “f- it, I’ll do it”. Even though already committed to volunteer for future sessions.

So what’s the problem? No problem for you, significant inconvenience for us. But do go on with your pea-brained perspective.

I’m being a real ahole to a person that deserves someone to be a real ahole to them. We’re talking about a person that think that bailing on commitments is no big deal because someone else will do it. If you don’t understand how that’s simply wrong in every way, there’s no hope for you.

[Anonymous]

Way out of line. That person was not implying that at all. I was at the meet and volunteered every session and I am annoyed that people sign up and then don’t show up. It’s admirable that your spouse stepped up but it sounds like you are bitter about it so maybe he shouldn’t have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re being a real ahole to a person for no reason. If it was a major inconvenience for your family then he should not have volunteered. The would have found an additional timer regardless. Participation in the meet is optional so not sure why you’re so woe is me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s yours other than being miserable?

Again I have don’t get the complaining when people bailed on volunteering and they filed the roles relatively quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got a timer for the girls pool quickly but then called for 2 timers from a specific club on the boys pool. I have no idea if those timers were from the club they were looking for or not but people did step up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they needed 2 timers for the boys pool yesterday morning, they did make an announcement requesting two from a specific team.

I’m a Marlins parent who works multiple shifts at this meet and I agree that requiring a certain number per club might help but ultimately if people sign up and no show AND don’t remove their names from the sign up in advance, I don’t know what the solution is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

I worked the meet yesterday and it was less of a disaster than years past. The scoreboard was glitchy at the beginning, but then it started working. And Meet Mobile was working.

The volunteer issue seems to persist, however. Not sure if there are any Marlins parents on here, but one thing that could make the meet run smoother is to allocate an exact number of volunteer spots for each team. And then hold the teams accountable for filling them versus walking the stands yelling “we need volunteers”

The sign up genius had been completely full for over a week. The problem is people who signed up and then no-show...

Not requiring a timer from the club of the no-show is garbage move.

This did not happen at the girls pool. My spouse, signed up to time other sessions, timed yesterday because of no shows not associated with our club.

What’s your point?

Well, dipstick, they filled the role quickly because my spouse said “f- it, I’ll do it”. Even though already committed to volunteer for future sessions.

So what’s the problem? No problem for you, significant inconvenience for us. But do go on with your pea-brained perspective.

I’m being a real ahole to a person that deserves someone to be a real ahole to them. We’re talking about a person that think that bailing on commitments is no big deal because someone else will do it. If you don’t understand how that’s simply wrong in every way, there’s no hope for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’re being a real ahole to a person for no reason. If it was a major inconvenience for your family then he should not have volunteered. The would have found an additional timer regardless. Participation in the meet is optional so not sure why you’re so woe is me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s yours other than being miserable?

Again I have don’t get the complaining when people bailed on volunteering and they filed the roles relatively quickly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got a timer for the girls pool quickly but then called for 2 timers from a specific club on the boys pool. I have no idea if those timers were from the club they were looking for or not but people did step up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When they needed 2 timers for the boys pool yesterday morning, they did make an announcement requesting two from a specific team.

I’m a Marlins parent who works multiple shifts at this meet and I agree that requiring a certain number per club might help but ultimately if people sign up and no show AND don’t remove their names from the sign up in advance, I don’t know what the solution is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People love to complain about Winter Classic in particular. I find it really strange.
1. It is not the custom in PVS that host clubs provide all the timers. Its literally in the meet announcement- "Participating clubs are requested to provide timers in proportion to their entries. One timer is
requested for each 25 entries.
● Volunteer Sign-Up Form will be distributed to participating teams. " This is pretty typical language for PVS meets. If you don't like it- don't participate.
2. GMU uses the gen 7 timing system, it is built into the pool. In some ways it works better, but it is also glitchy. The built into the pool part means that facilities staff has to get involved whenever it doesn't work.
3. The scoreboard is run by the GMU computer- it's not run from the tables. The table literally takes a thumb drive to the GMU office and has them load the scoreboard.
4. GMU has a lot to offer as a venue, and also some limitations. It's not like there is competition to host meets like this, pools are hard to come by.
5. I have no idea whether or not the Marlins 'make money' on the meet. But, as is true for virtually all meets, there is a lot of stuff they have no control over. I know they have really strong officials running the dry side this year (I personally am not one of them.)

I worked the meet yesterday and it was less of a disaster than years past. The scoreboard was glitchy at the beginning, but then it started working. And Meet Mobile was working.

The volunteer issue seems to persist, however. Not sure if there are any Marlins parents on here, but one thing that could make the meet run smoother is to allocate an exact number of volunteer spots for each team. And then hold the teams accountable for filling them versus walking the stands yelling “we need volunteers”

The sign up genius had been completely full for over a week. The problem is people who signed up and then no-show...

Not requiring a timer from the club of the no-show is garbage move.

This did not happen at the girls pool. My spouse, signed up to time other sessions, timed yesterday because of no shows not associated with our club.

What’s your point?

Well, dipstick, they filled the role quickly because my spouse said “f- it, I’ll do it”. Even though already committed to volunteer for future sessions.

So what’s the problem? No problem for you, significant inconvenience for us. But do go on with your pea-brained perspective.

I’m being a real ahole to a person that deserves someone to be a real ahole to them. We’re talking about a person that think that bailing on commitments is no big deal because someone else will do it. If you don’t understand how that’s simply wrong in every way, there’s no hope for you.

I didn’t no show (volunteered at another meet this weekend actually), but there are a TON of bugs going around right now, including a vax-evading flu A, a nasty norovirus, and all the other junk that goes around in winter. All of the sorts of things that would cause an otherwise responsible family to scratch at the last minute.

If you have or recently had the trots, you should be no where near a pool per the sign on the door of every single non-residential pool in the US. And if you have one person in your house that is barfing, there is an exceptionally good chance you will be barfing as well very soon. Swim meets are not the sort of events you power through. Stay home so you don’t infect 500 people.

That being said, each club should solicit for “as needed” or at large volunteers to cover the bases for no shows.

[Anonymous]

When Club X is required to provide a certain number of volunteers and there is a no-show, even if you the guy died yesterday, the request should never go out to other clubs to provide a volunteer. The demand for a substitute volunteer should go to the coach of Club X. It should never go to the general public, composed of clubs that have already met their commitment.

Or instead of putting “timers needed” on the scoreboard, it should say for example, “1 Club X timer needed - Boys Pool”.

It’s really that easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does Winter Classic always feel like amateur hour? Every time they are here it is the same issues that they blame on the venue but yet other teams have no problem. Big sigh.

The first thing we need to understand is that this isn't a "Champs Meet". It's just a plain ole LSC sanctioned meet with fancy marketing and/or expensive fees designed to make money for the host club. It's really the same as NCSA's or the Katie Ledecky invite, a meet pretending to be some sort of national level championship meet to entice more swimmers from registering with expensive fees.

After you understand that, then you can understand why things don't run smoothly as that would interfere with the primary objective of making money for the host club.

Sorry to break it to you but both KLI and NCSA’s bring in top swimmers from multiple states making them very competitive championship meets. These aren’t the same swimmers nor is a plain ole LSC meet.

Agree that Winter Classic is not at the same level as NCSAs, or maybe even KLI. However, I tend to think of Winter Classic as the same as a plain ole LSC meet with prelims/finals. It’s not much different than Swim and Rock last month or other prelim/final meets.

I would agree that Winter Classic and Swim & Rock are very equivalent meets. But Swim & Rock did not have finals all the days, so it is more limited.

KLI is a much faster meet with most of the kids at Winter Classic would not have been able to even swim in the meet. Winter classic does not have time standards. Yes, the top/top swimmers of Winter Classic would final at KLI, but not at the same numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does Winter Classic always feel like amateur hour? Every time they are here it is the same issues that they blame on the venue but yet other teams have no problem. Big sigh.

The first thing we need to understand is that this isn't a "Champs Meet". It's just a plain ole LSC sanctioned meet with fancy marketing and/or expensive fees designed to make money for the host club. It's really the same as NCSA's or the Katie Ledecky invite, a meet pretending to be some sort of national level championship meet to entice more swimmers from registering with expensive fees.

After you understand that, then you can understand why things don't run smoothly as that would interfere with the primary objective of making money for the host club.

Sorry to break it to you but both KLI and NCSA’s bring in top swimmers from multiple states making them very competitive championship meets. These aren’t the same swimmers nor is a plain ole LSC meet.

Agree that Winter Classic is not at the same level as NCSAs, or maybe even KLI. However, I tend to think of Winter Classic as the same as a plain ole LSC meet with prelims/finals. It’s not much different than Swim and Rock last month or other prelim/final meets.

I would agree that Winter Classic and Swim & Rock are very equivalent meets. But Swim & Rock did not have finals all the days, so it is more limited.

KLI is a much faster meet with most of the kids at Winter Classic would not have been able to even swim in the meet. Winter classic does not have time standards. Yes, the top/top swimmers of Winter Classic would final at KLI, but not at the same numbers.

And? You needed to add this, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When Club X is required to provide a certain number of volunteers and there is a no-show, even if you the guy died yesterday, the request should never go out to other clubs to provide a volunteer. The demand for a substitute volunteer should go to the coach of Club X. It should never go to the general public, composed of clubs that have already met their commitment.

Or instead of putting “timers needed” on the scoreboard, it should say for example, “1 Club X timer needed - Boys Pool”.

It’s really that easy.

+1. At one of the PVS champs meets last season (I forget if it was SC or LC) they had assigned timer slots by club and when a particular club didn’t have their slots filled their coaches had to time until someone from their club came down to volunteer. There are several clubs in PVS notorious for their parents not volunteering so it was nice to see them being held accountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would agree that Winter Classic and Swim & Rock are very equivalent meets. But Swim & Rock did not have finals all the days, so it is more limited.

KLI is a much faster meet with most of the kids at Winter Classic would not have been able to even swim in the meet. Winter classic does not have time standards. Yes, the top/top swimmers of Winter Classic would final at KLI, but not at the same numbers.

oh BS. Most of the kids in winter classic- at least from the larger teams (e.g. Makos/ Marlins/ AAC/York) absolutely have KLI cuts. I don't know if 'all' of them do- but I would guess its pretty darn close. I don't know enough about the other teams to have an opinion.
Swim and Rock is a fantastic meet- but its nothing like winter classic. Swim and Rock was particularly fast this year, but if you look at what it took to make finals at swim and rock as compared to winter classic the times are multiple seconds apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would agree that Winter Classic and Swim & Rock are very equivalent meets. But Swim & Rock did not have finals all the days, so it is more limited.

KLI is a much faster meet with most of the kids at Winter Classic would not have been able to even swim in the meet. Winter classic does not have time standards. Yes, the top/top swimmers of Winter Classic would final at KLI, but not at the same numbers.

oh BS. Most of the kids in winter classic- at least from the larger teams (e.g. Makos/ Marlins/ AAC/York) absolutely have KLI cuts. I don't know if 'all' of them do- but I would guess its pretty darn close. I don't know enough about the other teams to have an opinion.
Swim and Rock is a fantastic meet- but it’s nothing like winter classic. Swim and Rock was particularly fast this year, but if you look at what it took to make finals at swim and rock as compared to winter classic the times are multiple seconds apart.

Swim and Rock was faster this year because NCAP Marymount sent their swimmers there. They didn’t do November Open, Swim and Rock was their November meet.